Holloway: Stay tuned next for Black Issues Forum. When you hear people refer to the "black community" is it really that simplistic? What about all the different issues regarding age, gender, economics and education? I'm Jay Holloway. Join me next as we explore "more or less in common."

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Jackson: Blacks and whites, working people, are closer to each other than the extremes of wealth and poverty. Blacks and whites on a daily basis catching the bus, the elevator, the subway the train, the traffic jam, the ball parks, the public parks, are into more relationships on a daily basis black and white, horizontal, than have/have-nots vertically.

I want to shift the emotions today from the white sheets to blue suits and black robes.

Holloway: Do blacks have more in common along age gender, class lines, or is race still the bottom line? Good evening. I'm Jay Holloway and this is Black Issues Forum. We're here every Friday night at 11:00 on UNC-TV. And if you have access to the Internet or the Worldwide Web, send us E-mail at bif.unctv.org or check us out on our home page at www.unctv.org for more details on this subject and a wealth of resources for African Americans. We try to provide analysis, ask the hard questions, t ake you to some of the important events in our state and give you statistics and suggestions on how to get more information and how to get involved in this topic.

Tonight's program is part three in a 13-part series. These programs are designed to help you discuss serious issues with your family and civic and community groups, and most importantly, in the classroom. The program is not only for blacks, but to encourage an increased understanding across racial lines. This Fall we've already discussed race relations and the family. Expect us to cover other topics relating to health care, networking, education, technology, economics, business and leadership.

We will try to focus most of our attention on what we all can and should do and not what's wrong. And we'll attempt to give you more analysis and information along with interviews of interesting North Carolina people. In this program, we'll discuss community relations within the black community. What about the respect given to each other, regardless of age, gender or social status? In 1995 the million man march symbolized a significant change and widespread support within the black community. But n early a year has passed. What has happened? Was it just a gathering full of speeches or has it made a difference? Are males more involved with their families? Are people more active in civic and political and community organizations?

Tonight we bring back Milton Jordan. And an active student at Shaw University, an aspiring attorney, Rasheeda Smith. Let me welcome both of you here. Rasheeda, it's special to have you here. You're active in the student government there at Shaw University and aspire to be an attorney one day.

Smith: Yes.

Holloway: You heard those remarks from Jesse Jackson. What do you think about it? Do blacks and whites have more in common along the same lines of these economic and working and social education or is it still a race issue? Are blacks divided in that area?

Smith: Well, actually, I feel that blacks and whites are still divided. There is an issue of economics and it still plays a part in how we interact with one another racially. You will see in different communities - in the white community you'll see the upper class white and you'll see the upper class blacks and there's a large difference. And it's a serious problem. You know, if we can look beyond the economics and look beyond the money issues and look at one another, then it would be a big d ifference.

Holloway: Milton, you do quite a lot in terms of networking and you teach at Central and you do writing. You've been working with this program for a long time and you have a lot of strategies. What do you think about Jesse's statement and do we have more in common with whites in the same working class and education, or is it back to a racial issue?

Well, Jay, I think it depends on which story you buy. If you start with the assumption that the factors that make us human are more important than he factors that define us racially then, yes, we have much more in common. If you also ask the other question, why is it that somebody in this country years and years ago invented the concept of race? Because nature doesn't do that. We can't find the concept supported in nature. Anthropologists have rejected it, scientists have rejected it. So why is it i n somebody's vested best interest to hang on to it?

We are divided if we start with the assumption that we are different. If we are not different, that is to say we are all human, then there are ways to reach across that divide and deal with another human being. It's not easy. Now I, personally, do not allow people to define me in any way other than my humanity. I do not ascribe to it. I don't answer to question

[PAUSE IN RECORDING]

Holloway: [Already in Progress]. . . we have a stark difference right here on the panel today in terms of age, gender -

Jordan: Oh I'm young. I'm planning on living to be 120, so I'm 53 years young. [Laughter]

Holloway: Even complexion. We've got some major differences here. How do you all view, in terms within the black community, all these kinds of differences? Let's just deal - both of you are young. You're not quite in the same generation, but how are we in the black community dealing with these differences? Milton is probably old enough to be your father, I would guess.

Jordan: I would suspect so. I won't ask how old you are, I realize that's impolite, but I probably have sons your age.

Holloway: There's still a - we call this generation x. You may be put in that category, you've hear people refer to generation x.

Smith: Um-huh.

Holloway: How do you deal with the whole generation gap within the black community first, let's look at it that way.

Smith: Okay. First of all, I do have a serious problem with the title generation x, what exactly is generation x?

Holloway: Excuse me.

Smith: Oh no, no. It's something that has just happened, it's transpired after all this time and I'm not sure exactly what generation x means, if it's unknown - what does it mean? But I know that there is a serious gap. And I only know from my generation, I'm not sure of generations before me, but it seems that this generation is really not understood as much as we need to be understood. We are really suffering.

In my eyes, I would say that we're on the front line because we are in a serious situation here. A lot of us feel that we don't have any of the racial problems anymore and that everything is going to be okay when actually racism is still here. It was here in the '60s and before the '60s and during the time of slavery and it continues to live on. And we need to focus on that and we need to understand that this generation here is a different type of generation.

Holloway: Let me interrupt. You said, "not understood" first. Let me back up to that. What do you think that Milton's generation doesn't understand about your generation?

Smith: Well, first of all, I like to use rap when it comes to not being understood. A lot of the older adults, they look at rap and they view it as something very negative. Now, there are some negative rappers, but there is also positivity in rap. And it's really unfortunate, because those rappers who are positive aren't being looked at and viewed as positive rappers in speaking to the youth. Because the youth - we're really suffering.

We see a lot of teenage pregnancies going on. We see a lot of the youth suffering from HIV. We see a lot of the youth dealing with drugs and all kinds of things while we're out there suffering. And when we listen to this rap and listen to these different types of lyrics, they speak to the youth, you know. And we understand what they're saying. So, when a lot of the adults look at rap and look down upon it, it's really not negative.

Holloway: Milton. Rap music.

Jordan: Doesn't bother me. My son listens to it all the time. First of all, I'm not a traditionalist. Okay? I don't allow anybody to define me. I don't allow anybody to tell me how I'm going to sing. For me, this is much more important for human beings to connect. Let me tell you why I don't think our generation understands. And it's not new, it has happened in every generation. You

Smith: Right.

Jordan: You cannot understand other people while listening to yourself. You have to listen to other people in order to understand them. You have to also at least begin to explore the possibility that their frame of reference is right for them. Now, part of our problem in this society is that we tend to see everything from a doubting perspective rather than a believing perspective. Almost naturally, within the American society, if you hear something new, if you hear something different, your f irst reaction is to say, "How is that wrong? What's wrong with that?" And you begin to dissect it and slice it up - instead of suspending doubt momentarily and ask yourself, "How could that be right for this person?"

Now, my younger son, particularly, is profoundly independent. And we have friends who thought that music was, you know, the pale of doom. That listening to all this nasty music is going to set up all these nasty things and bring about all this terrible stuff. And I sat down with my son one day and said, "Let me listen to this with you." And we spent two or three hours listening to the music he enjoyed.

I began to realize that what I didn't like about it was not so much the lyrics, but quite frankly, there wasn't much difference between the lyrics of rap and the lyrics of what I now call old gold, oldies but goodies. I mean, love don't work, nation doesn't work, folks up against you upside your head, you don't have enough money. I mean, those have been the lyrics of music since time in memorial.

Holloway: Now, do you think he has a good understanding on what your generation is going through? Or how do you feel about what he said?

Smith: Well, actually, I think that is very good that you did sit down with your son. Some parents don't even want to attempt to do that, they just shy away from it. And that's very good, because you want to understand this generation.

Jordan: And you can only understand if you listen to the people you're trying to understand.

Smith: And that is true. And that is how you bridge that gap. When you want to understand, you have to first make that step and say, "Okay, I want to understand. And then I can sit down and then I can understand and then we can work together." There's not that gap there that causes the ignorance between the two.

Jordan: And I won't have it. Let me tell you what I found that I really didn't like about rap music. It wasn't really the lyrics, it was - the beat is strange to me. And it's strange to me only because I have been programmed another syncopation, by another beat. Now, once I suspend that and come to understand that that's what, for me, in my ears is wrong with, it's okay. Now, I'm not going to listen to it for hours on end, but if he and I were in the car, my son - and he's got the quickest f ingers in the east. I mean, he rides like this, with his fingers on the button and when it comes on, he'll tell me, "Now this is not one you're going to like, Dad, let me go over here."

Holloway: Well, let's do this now. I think our parents and hopefully "generation x" have something they can take home with them now. What Milton said - be open, listen, and you have to be open to understanding first. Let's look at the other issue of gender, male/female relationships. And you add the male/female to the generation. There's enough problems with just male/female in general.

Smith: Um-huh.

Holloway: I know you all have some comments on that. One, we've already done a program on the black family, which is our second in this series. And we know that we've got a number of still-single female headed households, we've got a number of black males absent for whatever reason. How do we deal with this whole male/female relationship within the black community that's affecting our families?

Jordan: Rasheeda?

Smith: Okay. We need to - it's all coming from understanding and breaking that cycle of ignorance. And, um, I feel that if you are brought up in that single parent home that it is the parent's obligation to educate. If it's the mother raising the children, educate the children on men. You know, sometimes if the father's not in the home, you know, the child needs to understand a man, especially if she's a female and vice versa. And that's going to bridge the gap because I feel that a lot of t imes the youth - we don't understand one another. Men may not understand the women, women may not understand the men which causes that disrespect. I don't know about your generation, but I know that there has been a level of disrespect with the males and the females.

Jordan: Oh, absolutely.

Smith: And it's really a concern and the only way to bridge that is to educate one another and to respect one another. Understand that we're different. We're not alike. But respecting one another for the differences.

Jordan: You see, I think there are a couple of problems. And I teach college, so I talk with my students about this a lot. Part of the problem, I think, is that men learn most of what they know about women from men who don't know anything about women. Unfortunately, again, in our society we do not allow men and women to be friends. If a man is seen with the same woman once or twice or three times, suddenly there is something romantic going on here and that confuses the issue a lot of times. It's kind of hard to be honest and open and candid when there's this romantic underlying going on cause that tends to get competitive.

I think what should happen early on in life is - at pre-teens, and we did this with our sons. I think that young boys and girls - pre-teens - should get to know each other. They should be able to sit down and converse and converse with adults present. Now, see the other problem is that some adults are simply afraid of young people's curiosity. They feel challenged and intimidated by it and it's unfortunate because we're to be there as guides, not controllers, but as guides.

And I think if we could all sit down and really, as you say, respect each other and understand that you don't have to be like me. It's okay. I mean, you are you. You do not have to like what I like. I mean, we should be able to get along together and deal with each other without us having to be - and it isn't a control factor. Now, part of it is the way we think of things. We always - when we say single parent family, we always assume female head and we always imply that there's something wrong the re.

Holloway: Speaking of that, there's also an association with a certain education and economic level as well.

Jordan: Sure.

Holloway: In our last few minutes I'd like to the move the discussion in that area because that's another area - Jesse Jackson spoke at the beginning about having more in common with whites in the same class in terms of working level than we do maybe with each other. Now, the whole economic and education division - we know that that's a class separation and that happens. How do you see it in your communities throughout North Carolina where you're on campus or in the community?

Smith: How much -

Jordan: Well, I think Fran did us a great blessing.

Holloway: Okay.

Jordan: Fran showed us that money doesn't matter in a real sense. Because you could have had nine microwaves. If you didn't have any power, it didn't matter. You see, and what Fran did is level the field. And it began to show us that all of these toys that we buy and all of this stuff - what really helps are people reaching out for people. If you had a flashlight then somebody needed a flashlight. So we needed to connect at the people level as opposed to at the thing level. This whole issu e of class and money, it is ridiculous. And it's absolutely absurd. How in the world can something that I've made be more important than me?

Holloway: What do you think, Rasheeda?

Smith: Okay. As far as I can speak from the university standpoint, economics really should not matter. In the program that we have at Shaw University called Peers as Partners, we prove that - you know, we go out there and we mentor to these youths and all, in high schools and junior highs and elementary schools and other types of youth services.

And we mentor to them and it doesn't matter what economic level that we're on or what they're on. We just speak to them one-on-one and educate them on life. Letting them understand that it's hard, regardless of what level you're on economically or whatever, it's hard. It's all a struggle. So we mentor to them and we let them know it's going to be okay. So economics really shouldn't be an issue. It is an issue with some people, but it shouldn't be an issue and it's not so much an issue when it comes to wanting to learn and to just being educated.

Jordan: And I think if your generation would just assume that it shouldn't be and enforce that, and not let it be, you can correct some of these mistakes.

Holloway: Well, I certainly want to thank you. I believe our time has run out already. Rasheeda, thank you so much. Good luck with things at Shaw University and when you become an attorney, you remember us. And we know you've got a good foundation.

Smith: Thank you very much.

Holloway: Milton, again, thank you so much. And we know you're a part of UNC-TV and Black Issues Forum.

Jordan: My pleasure.

Holloway: We think that the NAACP and other civic and community groups are good examples of how you can actively participate in your community or make a contribution regardless of your situation. NC Now reporter/producer Sonya Williams followed what the NAACP is doing in North Carolina about encouraging civic and political involvement within the black community. [MUSIC] Clip from Video:

Williams: For decades, blacks have fought for equal rights in America. From the marches on Washington to the sit in at the Woolworth lunch counter in Greensboro. Each marked a burning desire for social and political change, but experts say the large number of unregistered black voters today indicates many African Americans may have lost site of these struggles and are not exercising their voting power.

Female: I think that we were a generation that had the mind set that we had arrived. And we're finding now that we haven't, that really a lot of changes that have been made were made 30 years ago and we've not done too much to keep growing toward where we need to be.

Male: We have been relatively deficient as a people in getting the vote out. There's always been a disproportionately lower turnout of black voters. First of all, we don't register in the same percentage and population and then we don't turn out, so the accumulation of those two processes always devalues the black vote.

Williams: In fact, there are more than four million unregistered black voters in the south alone. In North Carolina, African Americans make up 22% of the population, but only 18% of the registered voters.

Female: We, in May, did an effort with regard to trying to get people out to vote in the primary and we ran into an attitude in the community. People didn't feel that there was a need to vote or that their votes really mattered.

Williams: So now the NAACP is working to change those attitudes.

Female: NAACP officials in Raleigh are holding community meetings to focus on voter education and voter empowerment. They hope the messages heard in those meetings will be powerful enough to send more African Americans to the polls in November.

Williams: The community meetings are designed to bring African Americans information on issues being debated in the various branches of government, like affirmative action, redistricting and education. Community leaders explain how these issues are going to affect day-to-day life in the black community.

Male: Now, 1997, we're going to start redrawing congressional districts. What legislature is going to redraw those districts? Are you going to end up with fair representation? What are you doing to make sure that you do?

Williams: Twenty five year old Marco Morgan, a college graduate, answered those questions by doing something he says he never thought much about until now. He registered to vote for the first time and says he plans to be at the polls in November. Still, he has lots of friends who are not registered to vote.

Morgan: So, if I go tell them about voting, it's like they got the attitude like, "What for?" Basically, the same as me before I came up into this meeting. I didn't expect to get all this out of this meeting, but I wish they could have came. Because it's very important. It's very important."

Williams: Not only is it important, but in many instances, the black vote has been powerful as well.

Gantt: That I want to say tonight, from the bottom of my heart, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you.

Stone: It was the black vote is the reason that Harvey Gantt defeated Charles Sanders. That was clearly the black vote that made a difference.

Williams: Dr. Chuck Stone has written widely on the power of the black vote. He says in many close elections the black vote has been the deciding factor or what he calls the balance of power. Still, in some cases, Stone says the black vote has been insignificant.

Stone: So when there's a massive change in the electorate from democratic to republican, it's was true for Eisenhower, Richard Nikon, Ronald Regan, George Bush, when you have that happening, the black vote is almost irrelevant. Because it's so locked into the democratic party.

Williams: But whether African Americans vote with the democratic party or the republican party, to have any type of influence they must first register to vote.

Female: Now is the time. It's just very important. It's so important that we get involved. Also with the recent attacks on affirmative action, it is no time like now for us to stand up and to be heard. We have got to come together and we've got to yell out because if we don't, the clock is going to be turned back thirty years.

Stone: All of those women and men who fought and died for the right to vote, and we don't exercise that right. We are betraying not only our history, but we are betraying our citizenship. So I say we've go to register, we've got to turn out and we've got to exercise a diligent and wise choice. And I'll leave that up to my people to make that choice.

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Holloway: Let's keep on pushin'. Thank you Sonya Williams and NC Now. We hope that you are registered to vote and will vote in the next election. There are many differing views within the black community but don't let that stop you from engaging yourself or your community in the total community. Remember, we'd like to hear from you about your suggestions and comments on helping to make this program the best it can be. It's here for you.

Call us at 919-549-7167 or write to Black Issues Forum, P.O. Box 14900, Research Triangle Park, NC 27709. Or E-mail us at bif.unctv.org. And check us out on the Worldwide Web for more detailed information on this topic and others of interest to the black community. Thank you for watching another episode of Black Issues Forum and join us again next Friday evening at 11:00 when we'll discuss health care and how prevention provides power. I'm Jay Holloway. Have a blest and peaceful evening. Good night.