Jay Holloway:
Coming up next we'll talk with a multi-billion dollar money manager about some thought provoking issues on economics and social issues. Maceo Sloan is next on Black Issues Forum. [MUSIC]

Jay Holloway:
Good evening and welcome to Black Issues Forum. I'm Jay Holloway. Tonight our guest is Maceo Sloan. He is president, CEO and chairman of Sloan Financial Group and chair of NCN Capital Management Group, New Africa Advisors, Sloan Communications, and PCS Development Corporation. He's a descendent of the founders of North Carolina Mutual Life Insurance Company where, prior to founding NCN Capital, Mr. Sloan spent thirteen years. He also serves on several boards of banking and investment companies and is a member of three bar associations. That's not all. You've seen him before on public television's Wall Street Week in Review and on this series, too, Black Issues Forum. Mr. Sloan, welcome back to Black Issues Forum. My pleasure to have you back.

Maceo Sloan:
Thank you, Jay, it's always a pleasure to be here.

Jay Holloway:
When somebody hears all those impressive credentials and you're on here, they probably think I'm going to talk about your business and all your success. I think most people know that. If not, they know how to find out. But how, today, can someone as successful as you still be subject to the fear of racism and discrimination in today's society?

Maceo Sloan:
Well that's a good question, Jay, and that's the question that a number of my white friends as me all the time. And one of the things that I bring to their attention is something that they would never even think about. No matter how successful I am, no matter how big my companies get, no matter how rich I get, no matter how civic works I do or committees I sit on, if I'm driving around in a nice neighborhood in a nice car at night and I see a policeman, and I can't find somebod y's house, their tendency is to want to go up to the police car and ask for directions; my tendency is to turn around and go in the other direction.

Jay Holloway:
Why is that?

Maceo Sloan:
Because in America you don't want to be a lone black man in a nice car in a nice neighborhood caught by yourself by the police. I asked them, "How many times can you remember seeing on television that a white motorist that's been stopped at a routine traffic stop has ended up dead? And how many times can you think of a black motorist being stopped on a routine traffic stop and ending up dead?" And they all say, "Well, I can't think of a white motorist that ended up dead on a t raffic stop, let me go research it." But they can all remember two or three instances every year where black motorists were stopped on a stop and ended up dead. So you really have to fear for you life to a certain extent. And you have to be very careful where you go and what you do. And that doesn't make any difference how successful you are, you always have to do that.

Jay Holloway:
So here we are five years later from the LA riots, a results of Rodney King being beaten by police officers. And now he is nowhere near the kind of success that you have, but if you're driving a nice car here in North Carolina and you're saying you fear in a situation like that for being stopped - have you had instances where you've been stopped before and then you felt discriminated against?

Maceo Sloan:
There have been some times when - let me give you an example. When President Clinton had his reception down in South Carolina, just over the North Carolina border, when he came to the Final Four that was in Charlotte, they invited the big contributors, they invited us down. A group of us from Durham went down to the reception. And we were coming up 85 and there were fifteen of us, fifteen cars. And we set our cruise controls on 75. We knew that the speed limit was 65 so we s t our cruise control on 75 and we were cruising toward Durham. And a highway patrolman came up behind us and followed us for four or five miles and then he waved the seven cars that were behind me to the side, to get them out of his way, pulled up behind me, turned on his lights, pulled me over and gave me a ticket. Now I had seven cars in front of me and seven cars behind me, but they were all white. And I asked him, I said, "Now, why did you pull me over?" He said, "Well, I pulled you over because y ou were speeding." I said, "That's true. But I know that the seven cars behind me were speeding and I know the cars in front of me were speeding because we were all on cruise control and we've been driving together since we came across the border. Why did you pick me? Could it be because I was a black man driving a convertible Mercedes?" He said, "That could be, but it doesn't make any difference. You were speeding." Well, those types of things happen quite often where you know that you're going to be singled out and there's really not a whole lot you can do about it in this country.

Jay Holloway:
And that's happening in 1997 in North and South Carolina.

Maceo Sloan:
Oh, it's happening every day. It's happening every day all over the country.

Jay Holloway:
What do you think, in having an opportunity for your white colleagues that may not know you, what would you say to them now to help them understand that even better? I mean what we're really talking about, equality is still not existing today in 1997.

Maceo Sloan:
I would say that as you look at what's going on in America, there are some things that are just blatantly obvious. When you look at professional sports, you see on the playing field a majority of blacks playing the sports. When you look in the coaching boxes you see a few blacks scattered in the coaching boxes. When you look among the general managers you see even fewer blacks, among general managers. And when you look at the owners of the professional sports teams, you see n o blacks as majority owners of a team anywhere in America. There's something wrong with that picture. It's not because blacks don't make money, it's not because blacks can't handle business, it's just that they are not allowed to participate in certain aspects of business. Be it professional sports, there are no black CEOs in the Fortune 1000. So, there are a lot of places where blacks just aren't allowed.

Jay Holloway:
Well you know, you've got two things going on here. You've got the side that says, "Well, people are successful and you're making this kind of money, you ought to be able to do what you want to do and racism is not going to stop you if you're going to be successful." And the other side is that, "Well, you know, you're discriminated against, we're not going to allow you to do that." Now what about the first side of, "Okay, this is America." Don King says, "Only in America."

Maceo Sloan:
Absolutely. America is a wonderful place to be. You look at America - I've been all over the world and I've seen all kinds of different systems and I haven't seen any systems that are even close to being as good as the systems we have here in America. It's just a great system. It gives everyone an opportunity, not necessarily an equal opportunity, but everyone does have an opportunity to develop a certain amount of wealth or a certain amount of security in this country. But the great fortunes in this country, for the most part, were not developed in this generation. Most of the great fortunes in America were developed back in the 1800s and the early 1900s when there were no income tax laws, when there were no inheritance laws, so you didn't have to pay state taxes when you passes your wealth on from one generation to the next generation. If you made a dollar, you kept a dollar. It is a different type of atmosphere. It is far more difficult today to develop a great fortune than it has ever been before in the history of America.

Jay Holloway:
Now, what about the middle class, even the lower class, the average black that's watching this program that says, "If Maceo Sloan feels that way, what kind of hope do I have of realizing the American dream?"

Maceo Sloan:
We all have hope and I think that hope needs to be emphasized, but we need to point out to the majority of America that when we talk about affirmative action programs, when we talk about programs to help people have a leg up in getting established in business or moving ahead in the corporate world, we aren't saying, "Give us an unfair advantage." Let me give you an example. I happen to own a communications company. It has a controlling interest in an advanced paging system. I was very fortunate to be in that position. But let's look at communications. Back in the 1920s and early 1930s the United States government paid grants to do the research on radio. Well then they turned around and they gave the frequencies for the radio stations of America away to white males. In the 1940s, the early 1940s they paid (the United States government, that is) paid to do the research on television. And then they turned around and said, "Well, we're going to give away the frequencies for television stations. But we're only going to give them to people who have experience in broadcasting." Well the only people who had experience in broadcasting were white males. So they gave away all the frequencies to white males in America. Now we come into the 1990s and there are enormous fortunes that have been built based on radio and television. None of them are black-owned in terms of the enormous fortunes that have been built. You do have a few blacks in this country that own a few stations but you don't have any mega-fortunes that have been built out of broadcasting in the black community. And yet, the whites of today say, "I don't owe blacks anything. I haven't taken anything from them. I never owned a slave." Well that's absolutely true, but they're standing on the fortunes that have been built over the last 200 years in America. And as long as those fortunes are there, that means they control most of the major corporations. In fact, all of the major corporations in America are controlled by whites or non-blacks. They control most of the good jobs, they control the career paths. And while the vast majority of America is not racist, overtly, the fact that they will sit back and allow certain things to be done around them, certain jokes to be told around them, without calling the person to task makes them covert racists.

Jay Holloway:
So you're saying when whites hear these kinds of jokes or allow these things to go on, they're perpetuating racism and discrimination.

Maceo Sloan:
Absolutely. Until it becomes socially unacceptable to tell a racial joke, until it becomes socially unacceptable to stereotype someone when they walk in a room based on the color of their skin, those types of things will continue. And even though it's a small minority of the population that is perpetuating this and doing this now, it will continue to hamper race relations until we get to the point where the silent majority is no longer silent and will step up to the plate and s ay, "Wait a minute. You can't say that because that's hurting America." What we're trying to do in America is we're trying to take 35% of the brain power of America and compete with 100% of the brain power in Japan or China or any of the other countries in Europe or the Latin American countries. We can't do that. 35% of the brain power, which is the white male population, is not smart enough to take on the rest of the world. We have to include women in there, we have to include minorities, because we need all the brain power we can get to compete on a world scale. So the problem in America is that the argument for race relations and for a melding of the races has been based on a moral argument. Having had the experience of spending a great deal of time in South Africa and watching how they have done their melding of the races now that the blacks have been allowed to participate, I have notice that the major differences, that the argument that they make there is an economic argument. It is not a moral argument. So the ending of apartheid in South Africa was not for moral reasons, it was for economic reasons. And what we have to do in America is convince the majority that there is an economic reason why they should include everyone in the mix, because we need all the brain power, all the ingenuity and everything else that we can get.

Jay Holloway:
We have this disparity between blacks and whites that has been for decades, for centuries, between income and between wealth. How does America, North Carolina, blacks and whites together, overcome this disparity for the benefit of America for us to continue to compete globally?

Maceo Sloan:
I think we have to do it in stages. We are not overnight going to change the balance of wealth in America. I've heard comments when I bring this up, by some of my friends, and they say, "Well you know, if you take all the wealth in America and put it in a pot and then divided it equally among all the people, 15 or 20 years later you're still going to have a situation where 10 to 15% of the people control 80 to 85% of the wealth." And that's absolutely true. But it's not going to be 10 to 15% of the white people that control 80 to 85% of the wealth, it's going to be of the people, which means you're going to have Hispanics, you're going to have blacks, you're going to have Asians, you're going to have Indians, you're going to have whites, you're going to have a little of everything. And while the percentages may be roughly the same in terms of wealth concentration, the hue of the people is going to be vastly different than it is today because there is no inherent superiority to having any color skin. And that's what I think would be shown.

Jay Holloway:
So what do you advise persons, regardless of their skin color, now to prepare for that time when they can possibly share that wealth? What is your success strategy?

Maceo Sloan:
I think what we have to do is we start thinking about how we can change America for the better for everyone. And we have to be inclusive. We have to step up and say something when we hear someone tell a racist joke, when we see someone try to stereotype someone, when we see someone discriminate against someone. If we are silent, we are perpetuating that just as much as the person who is doing it is perpetuating it. So we have to become activists. We have to stop being the silent majority, the people in America that think that everyone is created equal and that everyone should have an equal chance but don't ever step up to the plate to say anything about it. We have to become vocal instead of letting a small minority of people control what's going on in this country.

Jay Holloway:
Someone may say, well I share the other view point that how can you be in a position as successful as you are and still feel this way about fearing discrimination and racism with the police stopping you regardless of who you are, but because of the color of your skin. But on the other side, as a successful business person, it's probably easier for you to succeed based on the history and where you are now. How can someone who doesn't have that amount of success now still have t hat hope?

Maceo Sloan:
The wonderful thing about this country is that you can start from anywhere and you can move up the ladder. Everyone I've ever met in this country has had at least one opportunity. My definition of luck, cause luck is what it's all about, is when opportunity meets preparation. If you're prepared when you get that opportunity, they call it good luck. If you're not prepared when you get that opportunity, they call it bad luck. And everyone that I've ever met in America has had at least one opportunity. Now some people are fortunate and they get more than one opportunity. For some people they get opportunity after opportunity after opportunity and they take advantage of a number of them, some of them they do, some of them they don't. But I have never met anyone in this country that hasn't had at least one opportunity, because that's what this country is all about. But you have to make sure that you're prepared. Because if you're not prepared, your time can pass you by.

Jay Holloway:
Now, I would assume that everyone has an opportunity to invest. Now, you're an investment profession and we're talking about economics now. And you talked about the sport industry - we don't have any major black owners and coaches, but we certainly have the players. What about the whole investment opportunity? Our black youth now are buying these tennis shoes like they're going out of style. And I know that there are some people that go around saying, "If you would invest in Nike the amount that you have been purchasing these shoes, look where you would be." So what would you advise African American youth now about investing in the sports industry?

Maceo Sloan:
Well I think you should invest in things you understand. If you understand the sports industry, if you wear a particular brand of shoes and you think it's a great brand of shoes, chances are a number of other people are going to think the same thing. So if it's a new brand of shoes that you tried and you liked it, you ought to buy some stock in that company because other people will probably buy stock in that company and it will probably grow. When you're doing your investing, invest in things that you understand. Don't invest in things you don't understand, because if you don't understand them and don't realize why you got in the company, you don't know when to get out and it's as simple as that. It's a very simple investment philosophy for the average person. Invest in things you understand so you know when to get in and when to get out.

Jay Holloway:
Why haven't blacks as a group united effort gotten to the point where they own major shoe companies or major sports franchises? What's your -

Maceo Sloan:
We haven't developed enough capital. There is a very difficult chance for blacks in this country to develop capital. It's very difficult to go to a bank and borrow money to start a business or to expand a business, if you're black in this country. You can borrow money to buy a car or a boat or a house, but when you go to talk about borrowing 10 million dollars, 20 million dollars, big time money to expand a business, you get a very chilly reception and that's because of the st ereotypical idea of what blacks can do and what blacks can't do.

Jay Holloway:
Now, do you know that from experience with people you've talked to or did that happen to you?

Maceo Sloan:
I know that from personal experience. This has nothing to do with - I've talked to a number of people that in the same boat, but from personal experience, it has been very, very difficult for me to raise capital to do the businesses that I've done and I have not done it in a traditional way. I have not gotten any significant capital from any banks. I have raised capital by putting together partnerships, by putting together joint ventures with larger organizations. I've had to be very creative in the way that I've raised the capital that I've used to build the businesses that I've built. And I've had to put my personal assets on the line every time I've done a deal so that one failed deal and I go down the tubes.

Jay Holloway:
So we're talking about not millions, but billions that you have invested for other people and pulled together and raised. And you're saying that - I said "b" billion, that you still are not in a position where you could go and get money from a venture capitalist or a bank to buy a major sports franchise?

Maceo Sloan:
Oh, no. It would be virtually impossible for me to get that type of money from a bank to do something like that. I do have a number of friends in the venture capital arena and they are willing now to co-invest with me on a venture if I put it together. And I have a number of venture capital firms that have co-invested in our communications company. But it is still very difficult to do it the traditional way.

Jay Holloway:
We have just less than five minutes here and I know that education is close to you, you have children and the last time you appeared on this program you had some strong words to say about education. That seems to be one of the great equalizers at least in terms of ability, outside of these other discrimination factors that we talked about. What are some of your comments now on really our low-performing - in North Carolina, African Americans in the public school are disproporti onately under-performing related to their white counterparts. Why is that happening?

Maceo Sloan:
Well, I've had two children go through the public school system here in North Carolina and what I find is that, to a great extent, one of the reasons that our children under-perform is that they don't get the same level of attention that some of the other children get in the school system. So unless you have a parent that is willing to just sit right on top of it and go by the school at least once a week and talk with the teachers on a regular basis - the teachers are so busy trying to provide discipline in the classrooms in the public schools that they don't have time to teach. So they tend to give more attention to the students that are on the upper end of the scale and the students that are causing the most trouble. If you happen to have a nice, average child that doesn't cause any trouble, they're getting nowhere. And it's not the fault of the teachers. They're trying to do an impossible job. They're trying to keep discipline in the classroom that averages 25-30 students and at the same time teach something. Well, if you have 25-30 students in a classroom and you have to spend one minute talking to each student about discipline, there's not enough room to teach. So I think that's what one of the problems with our school system is. The discipline is gone. When I went to school, you didn't dare act up in class because number one, the teacher would whop you and number two, by the time you had gotten home the story had already gotten home and your parents would whop you cause the teacher whopped you. Well now, you're not allowed to touch the student so there is not discipline in the classroom. And that's something that we have to be very concerned about because education is vital, education is the key in this country to being able to make what progress you can make in this country. If you're not educated, you don't have a chance. So we really have to beef up our educational process and we have to stress to our children that there are other ways of making a great deal of money and making a good life than being an entertainer or being an athlete or being a drug dealer. Because all of us our not gifted with a 48-inch vertical leap and all of us, contrary to popular belief, cannot sing and dance. So, unless we want to do something illegal, that means we just have to work hard and getting that education is a good road to start with in working hard and making as much of yourself as you possibly can make.

Jay Holloway:
In just the last few minutes, we've done programs and talked about the black church in the past, but that's one area that touches a lot of the things we've talked about and has the potential probably to do a lot economically and socially and educationally. Do you have any parting words to discuss about the black church in North Carolina or America?

Maceo Sloan:
Well, if you look at the history of blacks in America, the church has always been the cornerstone of the advancement we've had in our race. The civil rights movements grew out of the church. Economic development movements have grown out of the church. And unfortunately we are starting to lose the cohesiveness that the black church has created in the black community. We have to gather our children, this generation that's coming along now, and get them back into the black churc h. And we have to get the black churches to start preaching something different from the pulpit. For a long time, they preached, "Go vote. Political power." Well, we have now achieved a certain level of political power. Now is the time for them to start preaching, "Let's do business with each other. Let's form some economic power." Blacks by themselves would be the ninth largest nation in this world if we were a nation to ourselves and yet we have very little in terms of real developed business in this country. If we would simply do business with ourselves and make it a point to try to find a provider that looks like us that provides whatever service you need, we could make enormous strides in this country. And until we get to the point where we do that, we aren't going to make any significant strides at all.

Jay Holloway:
Well said. Time has run out. Thank you so much for coming back on Black Issues Forum.

Maceo Sloan:
It's always a pleasure.

Jay Holloway:
Hopefully we can get you back again.

Maceo Sloan:
Okay. Be glad to.

Jay Holloway:
And thank you for watching the program tonight. And we invite you to watch Black Issues Forum every Friday night at 11:00. We hope you enjoyed our talk with Maceo Sloan, president, CEO and chairman of the Sloan Financial Group. Whether you agree or disagree, may we've caused you to think a little differently about how economic and social issues affect blacks versus whites. Please contact us with your comments. If you would like to use this program in a series for discussion with your community, civic group, classroom or church, let us know. Our telephone number is 919-549-7167. Or you may e-mail us at bif@unctv.org or visit us on our website at www.unctv.org/bif. You'll find information on past episodes and additional issues of concern to African Americans. Thank you again for watching Black Issues Forum. I'm Jay Holloway. You have a blessed evening and a good night.