Holloway:
...performance. We'll look at black students in particular and really all students. We're also going to talk about holding the teachers accountable for the under-performance of those students and their great performance as well. And we'll look at the social aspects of race relations and the teacher's role in that. With us tonight are Carolyn Smith. She's a teacher at Colerain Elementary School in Colerain, North Carolina. Thank you, Ms. Smith, for being with us and also Billie Hic

Smith:
Well, thank you.

Hickman:
Thank you.

Holloway:
And you both traveled about three hours each from both ends of the state to be on this program and we really appreciate you coming here.

Smith:
Thank you.

Hickman:
Thank you.

Holloway:
Speaking about that...being from two opposite ends of the state, your school systems are completely different as well. You both come from different cultures. I understand you both are Teacher Trainers in the North Carolina Teacher Academy.

Smith:
Yes, we are.

Hickman:
Yes.

Holloway:
Let's talk first about your different roles and how you view a black student, first, and your accountability for their performance, and the reason I start off with that is that last year the Department of Public Instruction stated that the black students, particularly at the 8th grade testing level and the 11th grade, performed grossly under where their white counterparts and others did, but your school systems or counties are so different in terms of the populations you have a dis

Hickman:
Well, it's in Watauga County.

Holloway:
I'm sorry, I was thinking it was Buncombe.

Hickman:
It's Watauga.

Holloway:
That's Asheville.

Hickman:
Yeah, right. A little geography lesson...we're always teachers, right? (Laughter) A very small percentage of minority students are in Watauga County, so our take on the issue of race relations is probably trying to get rid of some of the stereotypes our children have about other cultures and other races. We probably have to go from a different approach and look at ways to bring those to our students. A lot of times it's through literature, a lot of times it's through our social n other cultures and who are members of other racial areas are dealing with some of the same issues you deal with...looking at differences as well as how we're all alike, too, and then trying to knock down some of the myths they have.

Holloway:
You're in the middle school there, so literature plays a very important role?

Hickman:
Very important role.

Holloway:
Ms. Smith, in Bertie County, you have a particular story of how students ...now , there, you said about 89% of the students in your school system are black?

Smith:
89%, yes.

Holloway:
How do these students get an opportunity to experience other cultures and learn race relations?

Smith:
I think the teachers have to be creative in the process. We realize that there are other cultures and we would like to expose our kids to those other cultures within our county and outside the county. So, a lot of times we try to provide experiences by going on field trips or creating what I did in my class...pen-pal type of thing. Right within Bertie County, I'm in the Colerain area and in my class last year I had all black students in third grade. A friend, eight miles away, at A

Holloway:
Ms. Hickman, is that something that students, parents and teachers in the mountain area can do across the state? You're a technology person and maybe technology can resolve that.

Hickman:
Oh, I think that would be an excellent way for us to go. As more and more teachers and schools across our state have access to e-mail, especially, I think, and Internet, that's going to be one of our chief ways of eliminating distance and also getting rid of some of these gaps between race and culture that exist now. We have done some e-mail projects within the schools in our county, but we're very fortunate to have a lot of technology there and right now we wait and hope that we c

Holloway:
From your collective experience with the Teacher Academy, where you see teachers from all across the state, has the issue of race relations come up at all with the teachers in public schools?

Hickman:
In the first Teacher Academy we did. It's called Creating Professional Workplaces and school teams come...four to seven people from a school...teachers and administrators...and probably in the course of that when they're talking about communications and problem solving and decision making and conflict on our staff and in our schools, they work as school groups but I'm sure those issues are a part of some of the issues they deal with there. We, as trainers, don't attack that issue a

Holloway:
How about you?

Smith:
Yes, we have and, as Billie said, I have worked with Creating Professional Workplaces but now I'm working on-site in Phase II...when we're going into the schools and working with the schools...and you see more of that happening and the idea is trying to give them avenues and strategies on building those relationships and talking about it because I think that's important, too...that you understand that I am different, you are different, but we have a commonality and that commonality is

Holloway:
Well, I can imagine that must be a challenge, particularly in your schools where you don't have that kind of differences there, but we find at the older level, especially high school...and I would guess, maybe from your middle schools and elementary where there are differences...will the students and sometimes the teachers segregate themselves?

Hickman:
I look at the children in the mountains...although they all have the same color of skin, there are extreme differences in cultural backgrounds. We have a huge university in the middle of our town...

Holloway:
Appalachian State.

Hickman:
...Appalachian State, and we have children that live way back in the "holler" and we have students who have parents who do every variety of occupation and income level. So, there are probably three or four subgroups within the big group and there's a lot of teaching tolerance that comes along in helping them get along with one another and the issues that separate them that way come up in the daily arguments and fights that come up in the classroom. As teachers, we have to creativel

Holloway:
Speaking of a teacher's role, you both are, I guess you could say, career teachers. You both have been teaching for 26 and 16 years, respectively, in the school system and, Billie, you were in South Carolina prior to coming to North Carolina, but North Carolina has this new ABC's program and it's about accountability, part of it is, and it's holding the school and the administrators there but how accountable are the teachers to the student's performance?

Hickman:
You want take that?

Smith:
I'll take that.

Hickman:
Okay, go ahead. (Laughter)

Smith:
I think, in the process, we have to understand that the teacher is the individual that spends the majority of the day with the student and it is very important, as a teacher, for me to be familiar with my curriculum, to be familiar with the testing process, to be familiar with, number one, the student as an individual, and in that process, if I put all of those together, then it gives me an assessment of what I need to do to move that student forward. I feel like it's very important t

Hickman:
Yeah, I agree with Carolyn 100%. I think we've gotten teachers focused, maybe, for the first time in a long time. A lot of teachers, I think, do creative wonderful things with students that often times may not fit in the curriculum, and they've just been doing them for so long and the kids enjoy it and it's fun and then there are gapping holes in the student's ability to perform by the end of the year. I think if you ask any teacher, we all expect to be accountable and I should be able to take my children from a year's worth of growth from the beginning to the end of the year. I think we want others to come on the accountability train with us, though.

Holloway:
Like parents?

Hickman:
Parents.

Holloway:
Let's talk about parents for a little bit because I would assume...I'm a parent, too...that kids bring to the school what they have learned at home, too. Now, we talked about the race relations thing, but you have to deal a lot with that and, as teachers that have been in this profession for a long time now, what would you say to parents now across the state?

Hickman:
Well, I think we're in a different time now. We have different homes. Parents are working hard; they're not there as much as they used to be. I think a lot of things are happening and Governor Hunt has a lot of things in process in the Smart Start program to help parents with what needs to happen before school. It's a time issue but I think children who are valued, children who are read to, or have time set aside in an atmosphere for reading at home...children who have meaningful

Holloway:
Carolyn, that's regardless of race or what part of the state you're in, wouldn't you say?

Smith:
True. And there's one thing I would like to add...is that we also need the parents becoming more involved in the schools...coming out to our parenting meetings, conferences, and finding out what the kids are supposed to know. And, then, in the accountability process, what will happen is, is that the parents will understand what the curriculum is, why we teach what we teach, and those kinds of things. They would understand the process and they can give better support to their kids at

Holloway:
Back in March of 1997, the Department of Public Instruction did a conference on improving minority student achievement. That was one of the things they said...the parent's accountability...but the parent, the school, as well as the State...everyone is a accountable. So, it is a partnership for everyone's role.

Hickman:
And there's a piece there, too, when we talk about accountability, too...we want to come on-line very much as teachers...and that's student accountability because we've sort of missed that. We've got something to work toward. Parents are hearing more and more what we want them to do but the student is sort of there in the middle and I think whenever we look at what we want to do in the future, as I think this ABC's Plan will be improved as the years go by, there are certain bench m

Smith:
That's true. That's why I keep forming this triangle over and over again because it is like a triangle.

Holloway:
Both of your schools met the requirements of the ABC's last year, right?

Smith:
Yes.

Holloway:
In particular, Ms. Smith, in your school...I think Halifax County, which is in the general area...

Smith:
Next door.

Holloway:
I understand the retiring State Board Chair, Jay Robinson, said that was one of his most proudest things...that being one of the most under-performing, low wealth school districts, predominantly black, came out the highest in achievement. Now, what kind of standards...you're in a county that's predominantly black...we talked about the student's accountability. Do the students, from your point of view as a teacher or from the school's point view or the community's point of view, no

Smith:
Oh, yes. We are relating that concept to our students constantly. We have key people in place in the schools. Everyone understands what our goals and our objectives are. We begin to talk to our students, our parents. We do forums throughout the community, talking with the parents, letting the parents know...not just parents but the community leaders, church ministers...how important they are in the process, how important it is to get the message out that what our vision is, what our concepts are that we're trying to teach the kids and then, number one, the kids know that we are teaching them to be thinkers, dreamers, and that there's nothing that they can't do. And that's important and throughout that process what we're doing is building the self-esteem. It doesn't matter if the child comes from the "projects." It doesn't matter if he's way out in the rural areas of Bertie County and may not have had some of the types of learning that some individuals may have had in some of the other areas, but what is most important is that we take those individuals as who they are. We have goals set where we want them to go, but also we have to let them know what the goals are. If they don't know what the goal is, they don't how to shoot and that's the key. We teach them the goals so they'll know how to shoot. We also teach them strategies to go along with that.

Holloway:
Let's move back, before we end the program, on the whole race relations aspect. As we mentioned earlier, this is a year where the President has the One America Initiative. Governor Hunt has recently had a race reconciliation conference. The community and the government are trying to do things. Is there room for it to be a formalized structure in the school systems? Are the teachers to take on this role? What are your thoughts on this?

Smith:
We have to begin to look at race relations because race relations is evident throughout the world, throughout the State of North Carolina, and in tiny Bertie County. In that process, looking at what we have to do as a school, we have to make our students more aware, as I said before, of differences but also finding those likenesses. We also have to let the students know that in society that they need to set goals and objectives. Being in a predominantly black area where I'm working

Hickman:
Well, I think when you're talking about a formalized, structured sort of way, that's a real missing piece of teacher preparation. A lot of student teachers come through our schools in Boone because we are right there with Appalachian close by. So, that early experience with children is not exposing them to any of the issues of race relations. So, when they leave the University and the Boone area to go to schools that do have higher populations, many of them have difficulties, and I'm wondering if we don't need to look at that part of teacher preparation and what's happening to prepare teachers to deal with whatever they may find...cultural differences in the classroom...but I think we're ripe for something to come along to do that.

Smith:
Yes.

Holloway:
Well, that's a good point because in North Carolina, generally speaking, that is a problem, not only in that area, that's a void, but just attracting teachers to the profession and then retaining them are two major problems. So, what you're saying, I guess, is maybe we should focus that in the university system?

Hickman:
Well, I think part of the ABC's program is looking hard at both of those issues...bringing young people into the profession as well as keeping them. You know, in North Carolina, we have a huge number of teachers who are taking off after that third, fourth or fifth year and a lot of things are not happening that should be because of that. I think what we're seeing is that we've been too separate for too long...the university that prepares teachers being completely isolated from the ew teachers...of the work that's entailed in the job and both of those will address those issues.

Holloway:
Let me end just with one other thought. We asked her about the black student in Bertie County but that black student is missing, in general, in Watauga County. What do you say to your colleagues, not just in the teaching profession but who live in the mountain area, who don't have any idea about black culture and their role in wanting to learn and benefit from that?

Hickman:
There's just creative ways...as teachers we've got to make it a part. I have recently completed the requirements and been certified by the National Board for Professional Teaching Standards.

Holloway:
Congratulations!

Hickman:
Well, thank you.

Holloway:
Governor Hunt, I know, (inaudible).

Hickman:
Yes, and he's been instrumental in opening that up for teachers all over the country but that is a key piece in that process...for a teacher to address how you teach your children about the diversity in the world so they can enter a work place being able to work with all kinds of people. So, I think we're seeing that that's a part that good teachers have got to create in the curriculum.

Holloway:
Carolyn, you've got the last word. What would you say to black culture around the state and learning more about other cultures?

Smith:
I would say to black cultures that it's very important that we understand that we are different, to understand our differences, but also to look for the commonalties and look for the resources. If we do not come together and work together in the process, then what will happen is that we will not have the kind of America we want our kids to grow up in and to foster that kind of America then we really need to work toward race relations. Holloway; Well, thank you all. You all are a great example of working together. Thank you on behalf of the citizens of North Carolina for being great teachers.

Hickman:
Thank you.

Holloway:
Well, we hope that tonight's show has helped you see that it's responsibility of really all of us...teachers, parents, and students, as we heard tonight...to ensure that our children get the help and the tools they need to excel in school. Just as the teachers can be held accountable, so can the parents and the students themselves. Parents need to be just as knowledgeable of their children's educational needs and concerns as teachers.