Holloway:
Tonight on Black Issues Forum we'll talk about the faith community's responsibility for race relations. Next on Black Issues Forum.

[MUSIC]

Holloway:
Good evening, I'm your host Jay Holloway. On tonight's Black Issues Forum we're going to evaluate the impact of religion on race relations. And to share their views on this topic, we have with us Reverend Delores Still. She's the Executive Director of Building Together Ministries. Delores, thank you for being with us. And also Judah Siegel-is that correct, Siegel-is Executive Director of the Wake County Jewish Federation. Thank you both for joining us.

When someone sees who you are and your titles, they may think we're going to talk about something real controversial and have you all fighting, but that's not what public television does, it's not what Black Issues Forum does either. But when you think about the national situation, quite often you see in the headlines through other media the distinction drawn quickly between blacks and Jews. What have you all seen in your relationships in working together to either support or offset that?

Siegel:
I am most distressed when I see or hear the sense that there is a division. I know that there at times can be, but I see no reason why this has to be the case, certainly in Wake County or in North Carolina. The fact is, Jewish people individually and the Jewish community organizationally has every reason to want to work cooperatively and to support people of all backgrounds.

Holloway:
Right. Delores?

Still:
When I hear that question, the thing that comes to mind, Jay, is that there's always a political current that's flowing in one direction or another. There are social currents, but I think those of us who are committed to building community have to take the responsibility to not flow with the current, but to build relationships on behalf of the children and the adults in our communities. And I know as in ministry, that's what we're committed to.

Holloway:
Is building the . . . .?

Still:
Is building partnerships and to not flow with the current that says that you ought to have a relationship with or you're not to have a relationship with.

Holloway:
How do you collectively accept the differences, or how do you encourage your friends, associates, or persons within your faith to accept others' differences?

Siegel:
I have found something fascinating that happens, and that is that when I am clear with a person that I meet for the first time how strong my own commitment to Judaism is, I find that they are very pleased. They want to know more about me, about my faith, because of my own strength and understanding of what I am. It does not cause a gulf, it does not cause a division, we don't have to be the same to care about each other. In fact, if we are very clear about our own understanding of

Still:
And I think what Judah has said is so significant. When we're settled with who we are and what our faith is, then we don't have to have the fears that contact or partnerships will end in conversion. I've been converted, and I'm settled in my conversion. I can have a partnership across religious and cultural and social lines.

Siegel:
You've mentioned something that is an issue for the Jewish community from time to time throughout history, although not in recent times, at least in our community today. And that is the issue of communities wanting other people to be like them. Historically, Jewish people have often been encouraged to convert to the dominant culture, so for us as Jewish people to live in a country and a community where that is not the case, gives us the freedom to be what we are and at the same tim

Holloway:
Let's talk about identity, since you all brought that up, and being comfortable with who you are. When you look at your faith, do you feel, or would you say persons of your faith feel more comfortable with persons of like faith or with like culture or race?

Still:
I think culture is very comfortable. It says that we have shared community and we have things that we are accustomed to in how we live. And I would probably say-well, the right answer would be faith, but I think what's probably more accurate is culture. And that's a challenge, that we would collect around faith as opposed to culture.

Siegel:
Well for us faith, culture, race, nationality all mixes up into one big bundle.

Holloway:
Clarify that for me, because I believe some people, maybe even me, are confused on that.

Siegel:
I'm sure you are not Jay, but for others, I will indicate that often a person is asked, "well, what is a Jewish person?" How is it defined? And the fact is we are a collection of all those things, except for race. We are really not a particular race, although most Jews that you would meet are white, there are also Jews that are as black as my friend here, or as you, from Ethiopia. But the fact is, Jewish people are all colors and of all race backgrounds. But we do share a common

Back to your question. I don't think there's anything inherently wrong with being identified with and being attracted to people like oneself. It's a sociological fact, and it's okay. I don't think we need to say that we're doing something wrong if we like to sit down and have a meal and have fellowship with people like ourselves. The only thing wrong is if we stop there, is if we don't also find a willingness in our heart and in our activity to extend ourselves, from time to time at least, to people

Holloway:
Would you agree with that?

Still:
Oh, absolutely. I think we have failed the cause of reconciliation by selling out to comfort. It was comfortable to stay with my people who felt like I did. But in not moving out and building and being intentional about building those relationships, a lot of what the faith community has had to offer the cause of reconciliation, we have held it back. And as a Christian individual, I feel some indicted.

Holloway:
Speaking on the Christian faith, and I guess obviously we think about the Christian faith and Jewish faith, you probably would not have cross-cultural cross-worship-I don't know if that's happened before, but I think that would be pretty difficult-but you can within your own faith in terms of different cultures or different races. What about the Christian faith here in America, North Carolina, that's probably more prevalent and easier to do. What have you seen here in North Carol

Still:
At Building Together, we do two things. We do Christian community development and we do racial reconciliation, and we do those together because we find that need is on one side of the divide and the resources are on the other.

Holloway:
Black and white.

Still:
Black and white. What I find is that when people collect around cause, issues of race, social differences, socioeconomic differences, they become less important. And I think that's the challenge for racial reconciliation, that we not just sit down to understand each other, but that we would identify what in our community can we further by partnering. Because I think if you don't have substantive goals, then there's a preoccupation with race, and it almost forces you to look for "wh

Holloway:
Judah, there's been much in the public media that there's much synonymous with the Jewish faith and these resources that she's talking about, and because largely from a Eurocentric culture, I would guess, or a white culture. Do you see any relationship to what she's talking about on this divide of the Have and the Have-Nots related to racial relations or racial reconciliation?

Siegel:
Well first Jay, if I could go back to a comment you made a moment ago, you made an assumption that we normally would not have prayer together, and that is most definitely true, after all, our style of worship and our content of our worship is different. And yet, from time to time we have broken those boundaries, even right here in Wake County. For example, folks at the Temple Beth Or annually have a joint Passover worship service with black Christian churches, and I compliment Rabb

But further, to a different point, I think there can be an assumption sometimes in the black community that the Jewish community is the same as the rest of the white community. Or perhaps, and this is being alluded to by you, wealthy, and therefore should certainly share their wealth with Have-Nots in the community. Two comments. One is, many times, and this is probably a surprise to black people, the Jewish person is in a very similar to the black individual, in terms of being discriminated against o

Holloway:
Well, let's talk about that now. What are some of the issues that we can work together on, and have historically to improve race relations?

Still:
The Civil Rights Act is said to have commenced around 1954, but there was no substantive legislation that made anything mandatory. In 1964, however, something interesting happened. Black Christians partnered with Jews and Catholics and white Christians and legislation was passed-what we know as the 1964 Civil Rights Act. There was a senator from Georgia who made the comment that this legislation passed because those religious people came together. What a fine testimony, that witho

Siegel:
The fact is that in the Jewish community, we as a community are proud of the fact that we stood hand in hand with Dr. Martin Luther King and many black civil rights leaders. Many of the organizing leaders of that era were in fact Jewish people, because they believed in civil rights and they believed in human rights. So we're proud of our history of being in the forefront with you. But sometimes these days, we don't want to act in a way that would be unwelcome in the black community, but we do want you to know that as a community, we care very much about the issues that black people face, and that we are ready to stand hand in hand with you on issues of the future.

Still:
I want to say, though, we almost make it sound like we've always done the responsible thing around the issue of reconciliation, and that is not true. I believe that if the faith community had been more responsive, not to say that they didn't do anything, but if they had been more responsive, then our country and our culture wouldn't know the racial tension that has become synonymous with who we are as a nation. Not long ago, I went back and read Martin Luther King's letter written from Birmingham, and he talked about driving the South and seeing all of the steeples from the large white churches. And one of the points that he makes in that letter is, he says "As I saw those steeples and how they pierced the horizon"-he was very dramatic, he said-"I wondered, what kind of people worship there? Who is their god?" And he went on to say that he had expected that the white Christians would be available to him, and that they would help to plead the cause of, at that time, integration. But he said they were not available. So I think there are many, many instances in which we had the ball to make important passes, and even to score, with regard to reconciliation, and we fumbled them. Now, as an African-American, it's easy for me to indict the whites, but then how has the black church leaned into the separation. I think it's been in our sermons when we encouraged suspicion, we encouraged hate in these messages of love. And it was, you know, I understand it was out of pain, it was out of the facts, it wasn't like it wasn't fact based-but yet we had a responsibility to say "this has happened, but here's what God has called us to," and yet I think we furthered the cause of racial separation.

Holloway:
Judah, do you think that in largely, than now, or even since then, the faith community can be held then even more responsible than maybe it has been for poor race relations? That's assuming that we don't have real good race relations.

Siegel:
I'm not sure that is true. But I think what is true is that each of our respective communities should be held responsible for dampening extremism. There's no question that if you take any belief and distort it and bring it to extreme conclusions, the result can be a listener of that faith who does not understand, and who therefore it becomes both radical and even violent toward others because of what he or she thought was learned in a house of worship. So that's where I think we h

Holloway:
Are you alluding to or would this fall into that category, the Nation of Islam and Louis Farrakan's promotion of that kind of thing? Would you care to comment on that, does that fit in that category?

Siegel:
Well that is very hurtful to us as a Jewish people. And what is hurtful there is the lumping together of all Jewish people as hurtful or evil or in some ways bad toward people of color. It just isn't true. Of course, there can be individuals who are bad people, as there are of every faith and every color, but to say that about a whole people is very, very hurtful to the Jewish community and to Jewish people. If we did that today, God forbid, toward another faith or toward another

Holloway:
How about the black Christian faith response to that. He has a tremendous following, even among black Christians. How have you found the black Christian community in North Carolina, particularly in Wake County, their response to that kind of thing?

Still:
Well I'll go back to the comment that I made earlier, and that is, there's always a current. There's always somebody who is fortunate or unfortunate enough to sit in a position where they can kind of determine a position and allow it to flow down. And those of us it flows down to, we have a responsibility that we can lean into it or we can lean the other way. Sometimes we can't stop it, I don't think it's fair to assume that because I'm African-American, if another African-American

Siegel:
Our own actions I think I would count the most in this world, and I think we're all amazed at how powerful our actions are copied and emulated by other people. That's what really counts, how we act. And if we are good examples of being good human beings toward each other, then I think that will have a very significant impact, and far more powerful than anything else.

Holloway:
That's part of what I guess our governor of this state and the President of the United States are encouraging with their race initiatives, and part of what we're doing on this program, and so I guess when you speak of your actions you're probably not just speaking only of yourselves but people in general, and that's the kind of thing we're encouraging here today. Are you saying that these kinds of cross-cultural, even cross-faith conversations about these kinds of issues should oc

Still:
Absolutely. When Building Together Ministries was started almost nine years ago now, it was before racial reconciliation was popular. It was before it was the buzzword. And what the goal was, was not just to get people who were different talking but to get them working together for common good. And in the Raleigh community, I'm looking at the impact, churches that had not heard the two words together, racial and race conciliation, they now have church-wide initiatives that are taking place. Individuals who had never been into the inner city and had typecast it as being full of a certain kind of people, they are now mentors, they are now regular volunteers. I think reconciliation has to have a product . . . .

Holloway:
And that product is the actual working together, you mean . . .

Still:
Okay, and I'm going to speak now very locally within the context of Building Together Ministries and what we're doing in urban development. The product is, people who never knew anything about the inner city are now driving in and they're mentoring, and they are tutoring, and people from the inner city who thought all white people were cross-burners, they are now friends, and they are people who work together on a regular basis. I think that's the product.

Siegel:
I could give a couple examples that I'm aware of. I know in one case, a significant leader of the Jewish community, Jackie Eisen, has organized and worked together with black Muslim women to dialogue, to talk, to know each other as people and as human beings, and I know she's working further to do even more of this in the months and years ahead. There has been activity with Shaw University, in fact, I have an appointment with Dr. Shaw coming up soon.

Holloway:
President.

Siegel:
Yes, yes. And there is a real desire to find activities where we can work together from the organized Jewish community.

Holloway:
We've run almost completely out of time. Any final concluding comments from either of you about this topic or in general?

Still:
I am just hopeful that the faith community will not pass this opportunity to assume responsibility for bringing together people across racial and social lines.

Holloway:
Judah?

Siegel:
And I agree that the rabbis in our community are playing a very positive role in wanting people to understand each other and care about each other as human beings. And particularly thanks to you, for hosting this program and having us together.

Holloway:
Thank you both for being here. And I think we've accomplished part of what we wanted to and get you to talk about these issues, and thank you both for attending and coming.

Still:
Thank you, Jay.

Holloway:
All right. Well, author and pastor Tony Evans had this to say about the faith communities, and I quote: "Until we as God's people deal with racial, cultural, and class issues within the church, the church has nothing to offer the world in terms of solutions to racial problems. We must judge ourselves first so we can effectively judge society."

If you have comments or questions about this topic tonight, please feel free to contact us or give us a call, 919-549-7167, or fax us at 919-549-7168. You can e-mail us at bif@unctv.org, or visit us on the World Wide Web at www.unctv.org. Thank you again for watching Black Issues Forum, I'm Jay Holloway. You have a blessed evening and join us next Friday at 11:00 p.m. when we'll talk about legal issues in the black community. Good night.

[MUSIC]