Holloway:	Host, Jay Holloway
Legerton:	Rev. Mac Legerton
Woods:	Dr. Ruth Dial Woods
Thompson:	Angus Thompson
Q:	Question from audience

Holloway:
Good evening. Tonight, join us for another Town Hall Meeting in Robeson County on the campus of UNC-Pembroke, another discussion on race here in North Carolina tonight on Black Issues Forum. Join us next. [MUSIC]

Holloway:
Good evening and welcome to Black Issues Forum. I'm Jay Holloway, your host. And welcome to part two of another town hall meeting here in Pembroke, UNC-Pembroke and Robeson County in North Carolina. We'll be talking about some human relations issues. We'll be talking about political races, some educational issues and some of the things that are working in a tri-racial community here in Robeson County. We also have a distinguish audience, a diverse audience in terms of race and gender and age that will be eager to participate. And also, we have a distinguished panel.

Let me first introduce to you Rev. Mac Legerton. Mack is Executive Director for the Center for Community Action. He's also an ordained minister with the United Church of Christ and a social action trainer, speaker and writer. Mack, welcome to Black Issues Forum and thank you so much for being at this town hall meeting tonight. Also, would like to introduce to you Dr. Ruth Dial Woods. She is a community activist here in Robeson County. She's a retired educator, Professor at Fayetteville State University. Thank you very much for being with us, Dr. Woods.

And last but not least, Angus Thompson. He's a public defender here in Robeson County. He's the former Chair of the Robeson County Public School Board. And he's the former General Counsel for the state NAACP. Thank you so much for being with us also, Mr. Thompson.

I know that many people here in our audience are interested in the issue of human relations. And I know we've already talked with this audience. We had an interesting discussion last week about Dr. John Hope Franklin and some of the issues that he brought to us and some of the suggestions as part of the national dialogue on race. But I know that we have a young lady here that has some questions about human relations and a commission that was set up here and perhaps some of our listeners around the state would appreciate understanding what, how you have resolved some of these questions. You question, please.

Q:
My name is Caroline Sumpter and my question is, Do you think that the dissolution of the Robeson County Human Relations Commission was detrimental to race relations in our county?

Holloway:
Mack, do you want to try to deal with that. There was a Race Relations Commission I understand that was in your country that has been abolished and she wants to know has it been detrimental to race relations.

Legerton:
I was a former member of that commission. I personally was not in favor of the dissolution of the Human Relations Commission and had hoped that it would be continued on a voluntary level. But the decision of our Commissioners was to dissolve that Commission that was in operation for ten years, from 1988 to 1998. And there were many issues related to that decision by the Commission Board and there's people in the audience that might want to illuminate further those issues. I think that the dissolution, though, does represent where we are in the county at this time and our need -- we've come a long way in terms of changes, particularly through the 1980's. And the issue today is we really need to sit down across race and community lines to review where we are, where we've come and what we need to do for the next 10-20 years here in Robeson County.

Holloway:
Well, let me talk and last week's program we talked about what John Hope Franklin had to say to this community and one of the things he says, you are a perfect community and an ideal community to talk about these issues. And many, to be quite frank, in talking to some of you, some people say, We really don't have problems here. But others of you are saying privately that, Yeah, there are some problems. And so, when you have a Human Relations Commission that was started, I understand, as a result of that '88 incident with Eddie Hatcher that many people knew about, taking over the Robesonian newspaper. And it brings about a reason for having that Commission. Now, is it the perception that there are not problems in the community, so therefore, there's not a need? Is that, you said that the Commission decided that but...

Legerton:
The County Commissioners, not the Board of the Human Relations Commission.

Holloway:
Would either of you all -- you represent, have represented the National, the NAACP and you're familiar with this community, Mr. Thompson. What are your comments on that?

Thompson:
Well, first of all, I don't believe that there's a community that doesn't have problems. We certainly have problems. They are not unique. The Human Relations Commission, it's dissolution was clearly a political move. And I think it's unfortunate that it was dissolved. I commented earlier to the media that the Human Relations Commission could have done, and in my opinion, should have done some things that it did not do, that I did not see happen. For example, this forum that we're here tonight: it could have sponsored such a forum. The President's Initiative on Race is instructive and during this whole year, we should have been involved in creating a constructive dialogue, studying the issue and then planning some action in dealing with the perceptions of inequalities of opportunities in the county.

Holloway:
Well, we certainly want to encourage our studio audience as well, if you have questions. And we have a variety and a lot of youth, so we would encourage you to come up and make some comments or questions if you have them as well.

Dr. Woods, you're a retired educator, but you're from this community and you have done some diversity training. What's your take on a unique community like this that is in some instances tri-racial and Dr. Franklin says is an ideal location and opportunity to resolve these issues. In many instances, this community is, has been through what the rest of our state and our country what Blacks, whites and Hispanics. Would you care to comment on that please?

Woods:
Well, I think any community across this country is unique when it comes to talking about understanding and mutual benefits for the improvement of the quality of life of all people. I have been, I'm a native here. I've been here for 60 years now. And I am a little sick and tired of the uniqueness of a tri-racial community. I think we've used it for different purposes through the years and I think that we have an opportunity now to come together and do some constructive things. And if I may refer back to the Human Relations Commission, historically programs and organizations have been responsive to incidence that occur in the community. There had been talk about a Human Relations Commission years before 1988. But when an incident occurred, all of a sudden, this is an immediate response. You know, settle things down, quite and let's smooth it over.

I think the fact that folks have not been satisfied, some very strong community leaders walked away from the Human Relations Commission because they realized that it was not created to do the kinds of things that needed to be done. And I agree with Angus that there are things that a Human Relations Commission can do. But I think there needs to be a firm commitment on the part of those folks that make the decisions to create a Commission and I think there should be accountability on the part of folks within the Commission to prepare a plan and to work with the communities. Human Relations is not an office. Human Relations Commissions should be out and about in all of the different communities in this county. And I think we need to recognize that just because we have significant numbers of people of color in this community that there are going to be differences. Conflict is inevitable. And until we are ready to make a commitment to sit at the table and deal with them openly that we're going to continue to be confronted with distrust, with misinformation.

And as an American Indian, born and reared in Robeson County. I have a real problem when folks start using Indians for diversity because we've been left out of so many things. We were not included in the Minority Presence Plan and the North Carolina plan for desegregation. Our schools were desegregated though and we're counted when it's appropriate to be counted for certain purposes, but we're denied our existence and recognition when it comes to political relationships with the United States government. So I think it's time to say, if we're talking human relations, we're talking inclusion, we're talking about outreach, we're talking about a working Commission.

Holloway:
You've raised quite a few issues and I want to come back and get some responses from you and also from our audience about these issues of trust and communication. And the rest of our state has got to be able to learn from these trials and these conflicts that you've been through. And I want to know more about what you mean about being tired of being referred to this way. But let's go to a comment or question from our audience.

Q:
My name is Ed James.

Holloway:
Come to the microphone, a little closer, please.

Q:
My name is Ed James from Fairmont Youth Center and my question is, Why when all races come together in a gathering or a group, they get along together but when they take in the world, they just break apart?

Holloway:
So, why can't we come together as opposed to really breaking apart and being segregated, I guess is what you're saying, and sticking to ourselves instead of coming together?

Q:
Yes, Sir.

Holloway:
Who wants to take that on? That may be the root of your...

Thompson:
Jay, if I may respond to that. I really believe that first of all you have to have constructive dialogue. We've been hearing a lot about diversity. People need to be educated, including myself, as to what your individual experiences are as a Native American, as an Asian-Pacific Islander, as a white American, as a Hispanic. And we're talking about race as well as ethnicity. First of all, we need to understand each other's experiences. If we're going to talk about diversity, we need to know what it is. There is language that needs to be developed. We need to define terms. We need to understand the vocabulary so that we don't misunderstand each other. But people need to get together. They need to be open. They need to talk and express themselves about how they feel and be honest about it.

Holloway:
Yes.

Legerton:
The experience of working together in this county, particularly in the 1980's, was a very positive one. And throughout the state could learn about a lot about how we worked together for change in Robeson County. Now, it didn't come easy here and it was all over the media a lot in terms of those issues. But for example, we now have a County Commission Board with all three races represented. We have city councils with all three races. We have a School Board, where we had five school systems in one county ten years ago, we now have one with all three races represented. We're probably one of the few races that sends, few counties in the state that send all three races to Raleigh to represent our county. We have one of the few rural, public defender programs in North Carolina.

All of these issues occurred because people across racial lines, who had both a political and a spiritual vision for change, came together in Robeson County in the 1980's similar to what happened in the United States throughout the more urban South in the 1960's to create some very significant change here. Now, the issue again arises that now that we're all at the table, politics of inclusion are so much more complex than the politics of exclusion. We must now form a new vision for Robeson County now that we're all sitting at the table together.

Holloway:
We have another question or comment from the audience. Yes, Sir.

Q:
My name is Lane Shaw from Lumberton, United States military, retired. During the turbulent '60's and '70's, many of the conditions referenced to race and racial issues spilled over into the military. As such, it became a deterent to the effectiveness of military operations, was very critical. The military decided to develop a Defense Race Relations Institute to do basically one thing: to educate. It was done. The results: outstanding. There we have the information. We have the lessons learned. We believe in education in Robeson County and in my opinion, it would be a great thing if we could draw from the military with the Defense Race Relations Institute and put it in our school system.

Holloway:
Let me ask Mr. Thompson. You're a former Chair of the School Board of this county and we've got a number of youth here. Sir, thank you for that comment. He's saying that when you educate folks, the results are outstanding. Are you familiar with the model he's talking about.

Thompson:
Well, not specifically, but again, to reiterate what I'd said previously, education is a part of the process. You know, Mike mentioned about where we came from. People, and particularly our youth, they need to know about our successes. And there were two distinct groups here in this county, Native Americans and Blacks, who were excluded. You know, you had your first Native American deputy in the '50's; first Black deputy sheriff in the 60's; the first Native American clerk of court, '67 -- first Black deputy, excuse me, deputy assistant clerk of court in '67, Native American; Black, '70 or '71.

When I came to practice law here in Robeson County in 1977, there were no other Black attorneys in this county. Now, we have a chief district court judge, who is Black. We have a resident superior court judge who is Native American. The court house has changed. We have a clerk of court who is Native American and a sheriff who is Native American. And to appreciate where we are now, we really need to go back and look at the past. So things are not all well, but they're better than they used to be. So education is a great part of it.

Holloway:
That's one of the actions that we want to encourage our viewers around the state and here in not only Robeson County to continue to try to educate yourself and take some of these concept and take an action. Because some of these things, if you have an interest in changing your attitude or increasing your education, the information is out there. Yes.

Thompson:
I do want to say that that very change, though, is perceived to be threatening to some people. And now, I think that's the problem because when those who have been replaced in positions of power often perceive the threat. And we need to talk about that because change can be very threatening to certain individuals.

Holloway:
Alright. Sir, we have another comment here. Go right ahead.

Q:
I'm Angus Thompson, Sr. And first I would like to say that I think I've seen some mighty good things take place because of our Human Relations Commission here in Robeson County. My question to the panel is what caused the break down, if there was one, and when did it begin to take place?

Holloway:
I would assume that you all have already talked about that, but [LAUGHS] let's, who, when did you, you need to address that.

Woods:
I think, I think I would say that it was formed, as I said, for appeasement, without direction. And I feel very adamant about that because of some strong community leaders that walked away from it and gave up their seats because they did not feel, some civil rights advocates who thought that it was not really committed to human relations and dealing with racial issues. And I'm talking specifically about the late Dr. Joy Johnson, who was an outstanding leader, not only in this state, but in the nation and in this county. But if you have an organization and the commitment's not there when you do it and you're doing it for political appeasement, then it serves it's purpose to keep people quiet. And since its inception, I don't think the community's ever been given a plan of exactly what it was suppose to do, how it was going to operate, who it was going to involve and certainly no outreach. I know they had annual banquets, gave awards and that's about it. And maybe there were meetings held.

But if, you know, it's time for us to decide if we want to keep creating organization and talking about cultural diversity or are we going to make the commitment to sit down and say, We are all in this together, not only American Indian, Black and white, but also Hispanic, all people that are in our community. You know, and we talk about tri-racial Robeson County, we've got a significant Hispanic population here. So it's time, you know, tri-racial workforce during the 60's when we talking to the Office of Civil Rights. But you need to know again that Indian people in this county did not participate in OEO programs because they weren't included. And we had to take the avenues to go after our own organization, our own agencies and our own programs.

Holloway:
We want to start talking about some of these political races that have impacted a lot of those points that you're talking about. But before we do that, I want to go back to a young person in our audience. Do you have a comment or question, please?

Q:
Hi, my name is Jaquona Rass and I'm from Red Springs. I have a question. What can be done to improve the quality of life in our country, in our county for all races?

Holloway:
What can be done to improve the quality of life for all races? And you just almost illuded to that, that we're talking about more than just a tri-racial, but including Hispanics. And what can we do? Let me ask you. You also wear a hat from representing the faith community. We haven't talked about that tonight, though, but could I ask you to address that, because it is still said that the most segregated time is Sunday morning. Can you address, what is faith community doing about that?

Legerton:
Well, in Robeson County just as many of the other rural counties, particularly in the South, the clergy and important lay people have led the movement for social improvement and that is true here as well. There are many programs in this county where people are being brought together across racial lines, where youth are being brought together across racial lines to address these issues. And the faith community is involved in some of those initiatives and some are through the non-profit sector and some are through government service programs. So I think that the religious insight and vision, particularly of the Kingdom of God, is a real basis for change in the South and has been in the African American community. It's true here in the Native American community, as well as in the European American community and now with our new neighbors and friends in the Spanish-speaking populations.

Holloway:
We only have less than about four minutes, so I want to get to these two comments and let me, let's ask both of you all to address yours in succession and then we'll move on. Yes, Ma'am.

Q:
Okay. Hello, I'm Dr. Felicia Wilkins-Turner, the Southeastern Regional Director for the North Carolina Human Relations Commission, whose office is right on this campus, by the way. I want to point out two things here. One, I wanted to answer the question to the gentleman, the student, his question, Why can't we come together. And my comment to that is because we don't know how yet. We are moving in that direction. We don't know how to come together yet on human relations attitudes and issues for the different races in this county.

The second issue or comment that I want to make is that from the state level, I will have to say it's a new and improved Human Relations Commission. The goal for Governor Hunt's office is that every county has a Human Relation -- working, viable Human Relations Commission within that county to take care of the problems that come up on a daily basis. We have workshops now. We have diversity planning. Dr. Ruth spoke of no way of knowing what the Board's to do. We do have that now. And it is my hope that I can work with the officials of this county to get a Human Relations Commission back going because we really do need it. Thank you.

Holloway:
Thank you so much for your comments and the next quick comment, please, or question.

Q:
My name is Vanessa Faircloth. I have a comment. As a teenager, I face a lot of problems, like other teens in the county, and instead of just going to one race, I go to all the other races around me and I think if other people would do more of that, that we wouldn't have as many problems here.

Holloway:
Good point. Sometimes you get some of the best comments from some of the youngest people in the audience. I just wanted to say a couple of other things. You mentioned earlier, just off-camera. I have referenced this campus being the most diverse campus in the country. But you said something about the community and in just a few moments, I want to recognize the Chancellor here. But tell us about this community and it's uniqueness in the country.

Legerton:
Robeson County is the most ethnically diverse rural county in the United States. And we really are a microcosm of the country and an example for the country in what we've done so far.

Holloway:
Well, I hope that this state has learned a lot from this community in these two town hall meetings and I want to take the time just to recognize Chancellor Oxendine, who is here, and thank you so much for hosting this town hall meeting on your campus. We appreciate it and best wishes to you in your retirement. Alrighty. And also, if there are any other comments and I know that we have a number of persons from the UNC-Pembroke campus here and we certainly appreciate your coming and we appreciate you taking the leadership. We know that we all are struggling with these issues, but we thank you for your leadership on that. We talked about a lot of issues. We didn't get a chance to get to these political races, but can anyone summarize what you've learned from the problems that you had in your political races very quickly.

Woods:
That people do work together when it comes to politics. If they keep up that speed working on issues, we wouldn't be having this dialogue. [LAUGHTER]

Holloway:
Alrighty. Well, look, I want to thank you all and I want to encourage the people here in Robeson County and people around the state to begin to look at what actions you can take. Think about your attitudes that you have about race. Think about what you're going to do after watching a program like this. Have you learned some different things? Are you interested in going out and learning more? And also, if you're interested in participating in these town hall meetings, contact your local UNC campus. We'll be coming to your community. We thank you so much for watching.

We also encourage you, if you have comments or questions, to contact us on our home page on the world wide web. The address is on your screen, the phone number as well as the fax number. We invite you to participate. We thank you so much for watching and join us next week for another town hall meeting here on UNC-TV's Black Issues Forum. Thank you for watching. You have a blessed evening and a good night.