Holloway:
Economic opportunities for blacks and other minorities, that is what we'll be discussion tonight at another Town Hall Meeting in Asheville on the campus of UNC-Asheville, next on Black Issues Forum. [MUSIC]

Holloway:
Good evening and welcome to another episode of Black Issues Forum, this week a Town Hall Meeting in Asheville and Buncombe County on the campus of UNC-Asheville. And this is also being hosted in conjunction with UNC-TV, UNC-Asheville and we thank our partners here for that cohosting. Tonight we're talking about economic opportunities. Here in Asheville and Buncombe County but also around the State. We have a distinguished panel. First I'd like to introduce to you Mac Williams. Mac is the Vice President of Economic Development, Asheville Area Chamber of Commerce. Mac, thank you for being with us. Also William Metz, William is Vice President for Human Resources at the Mission St. Joseph's Health System. Thank you for being with us, Mr. Metz. And last but not least Dr. Dr. Edward Katz is Associate Professor of Literature and Language at UNC-Asheville and Director of the Opening Doors Program, here in Asheville. Thank you, all three, for being with us. When we talk about economic opportunities in many instances people look at the bottom line, always, as money and economics. And we talk about the issue of race relations. Maybe the economic issue is the bottom line. There are disparities between blacks and whites, not only in this area but across the State. But people don't think of this Western part of the State that normally attracts blacks and minorities here. What has been done and what is the status of that in this community. Who would like to take a stab at that. Mac, do you want to?

Williams:
Sure, I'll take a stab at it. I've been here in this town about three years. My perception is that it would be historical. There hasn't been, traditionally, a large minority population in this Western part of the State for, forever. So, I think black businesses and minority businesses would tend to build on the population base that is already here. And so we've probably started from behind the eight ball from an historical perspective as well, since there hasn't been a traditionally large population of minorities in the area. I think Buncombe County is about 10% minority population. And even less than that in more rural out from Asheville. Asheville is about 20% population.

Holloway:
Is this area in Asheville and Buncombe County probably the highest populated minority area in the western part of our state?

Williams:
Yes. I would, I don't know that for a fact in terms of all of the other specific demographics of other areas, but I do know that 20% minority population in this town is a pretty high percent for this area of the state.

Holloway:
Any initiatives going on in this area of attracting blacks and other minorities to this area and perhaps that other communities around the state could learn from or even point you could share with us either? Katz think that some area institutions, when they think about recruiting and retaining African American and other minority employees are looking in new ways to draw people to the area. For example, it is true that some institutions have, are under represented in terms of their minority employees. So they pulled in resources from other areas of the community in order to help in the recruitment process. I think also it is becoming increasingly clear to primarily white owned or white led businesses that they may not have an accurate idea of what economic resources are out there for the African American community or that are run by the African American community. And so they are now trying to reach out and really ascertain what those resources are so they can use them in their own recruitment and retention efforts.

Holloway:
William, you, as one of the largest employers here, do you all recognize this as an issue?

Metz:
Absolutely. Some of the things that we are trying to do to address the issue is recruiting where we find more minorities. For example, recruiting in areas where there is a higher minority population. For example, recruiting in Washington, DC, recruiting out in California where we are likely to find more Hispanics or in larger cities where we are likely to find more minorities rather than concentrating on just North Carolina. We do recruit nationally for some positions and we make sure that where we recruit from we are much more likely to have more minorities than, necessarily, the white population.

Holloway:
Is that a priority, Mack, for the Chamber of Commerce. How does that fit in, in your plans. To recruit minority and other businesses to come to the area.

Williams:
Well we are actively, of course, recruiting businesses. Our target markets are more types of manufacturing firms, what they make, more so than whether or not they are minority owned. So, our goal is to on the broader scale to recruit businesses that are a good fit with this community and with the labor skills that are here and try to slowly upgrade and uplift the economic fortunes of the whole community. We have had a study done of this area to help us identify what kinds of companies would be a good kind of company for the area, in terms of our recruiting efforts. And we've tried to identify those and go after them, whether they are minority owned or not is not part of the criteria we look at. If they are minority owned and they are in that target market, it would be a plus, I think, if we could identify some.

Holloway:
Let me throw this general question out to our panel and I guess to our audience as well. When we look at the perceptions of the minority or the economic marketplace of the minority economic market place, is the perception that it is one worth going after. Is it that the economic incentive is not there or it is or is it something that needs to be done for valuing diversity. Do you understand what I'm.....

Williams:
Again, this community is, I think, prides itself on its openness to diversity and I think a lot of people I deal with at the chamber try to sell what diversity we do have. I can tell you from my own personal experience and working with prospects that are evaluating our community, I have had that question posed to me very early on in the process. And that is 'can you talk to me a little bit about the racial diversity that is or is not in this community. And when I have to speak to that question it is an obstacle that we have to overcome. Because communities or companies that want to recruit individuals to come with the firm have to find a place that their employees are going to be comfortable, that they are going to relocate or that they can recruit to. And so an ethnically diverse community is a very important thing to have. And there have been occasions where we have had difficulty overcoming that.

Holloway:
Let's talk about the employment. I think your unemployment rate here is lower than the state average and I would guess, and I don't know this for a fact, that it is probably similar with the minority population as well. Is that an issue here of the disparity in unemployment with race or are you all doing pretty good her and how have you dealt with that.

Williams:
Well, at the risk of hogging the forum here, jump in any time, guys, when you are ready. I am not aware that statistics that are kept of that specific measure. It is basically the number of which I am aware. If employment security keeps the numbers further broken down I am not aware of it. But low unemployment is an issue for employers existing as well as employers looking at us. Many employers look at that number without ever visiting the community and on paper will decide that there is not enough labor in that market for us to come here.

Metz:
I don't have the numbers on the tip of my tongue but the employment security commission does keep those numbers and they can tell you unemployment by race, by group. I don't know whether it is higher in the black community or not, but I think that it is. One of the difficulties in this area is finding minorities who have the necessary skills in some cases. We don't, in our situation for example, we hire registered nurses, we hire technicians, we hire skilled people who sometimes, and we don't find that reflective in the community for a variety of reasons.

Holloway:
In the black community?

Metz:
In the black community. We don't find them represented in the black community often for a variety of reasons. One of which goes back to the topic from last week, education. We don't find enough qualified applicants locally.

Holloway:
I know you want to speak to that.

Katz:
Yeah, one thing that is clear, I think, for the large area employers bur probably for all area employers, that African American and other minorities tend to occupy the lower strata in any of the workplaces here. Part of it goes to what Bill is saying about education. But also I think that the institutions are not maybe adequately orienting themselves to what they can do to offer opportunity to African American and minority employees once they get in to the institution. It may be that the institution is not designed to help individuals advance in the same way that seems taken for granted by white employees in those same institutions.

Holloway:
Well, I know the NAACP is active in this community as they are around the state and I think we have a representative here that would like to make a comment or have a question. Sir, please go right ahead.

M:
Thank you, Sir. H.K. Edgerton, President of the NAACP Asheville. First of all I'm going to try to make this very quick. There is something wrong with the picture on this set. There are no African American females here when we have right here in the audience the Director of the Minority Business for both the county and the city. And I want to make several comments. 99% of the business here went to white males in the construction industry. We have a civil service rule on _____ that keeps African Americans from entering into the market place and government. We have no African Americans above the rank of sergeant on the police force. Racial steering and sales of housing. No African Americans working for the Chamber of Commerce, not even sweeping the floors of the Chamber. We have _________ ratings, they are reasonable ratings and they don't reflect what banks really do here in the city of Asheville. Institutional racism runs rampant. Downtown Asheville is lily white. And we talk about the employment rate and how people are working two and three jobs, those numbers are tainted. Educated blacks leave here because there is a great deal of apathy. Why come here when the complexion of this city is like this. The institutional racism left from the robber barons, from Vanderbilt all the way down, that modus operandi is predominant and especially starting right with the Chamber of Commerce. And I always have a serious question is how did Virgil Smith, who is now the CEO of the Asheville Citizen Times, how was he able to come into this city and find qualified African Americans all over this city and you still hear the same kinds of excuses from these businessmen about what you can't find qualified African Americans. This is a pathetic city in terms of the modus operandi, not in terms of individual racism, but for institutionalized racism it runs rampant right here in the city of Asheville.

Holloway:
Okay, you've brought up a lot of issues and let's try to deal with some. Let me first say that we did invite Katherine Mitchell Proctor who wasn't able to come and she is a business owner of a restaurant here and she was unable to make it, but she was asked to be on the panel. Ed, you want to start off with some of that?

Katz:
Yeah, H.K. raises a lot of important points. I think one important point that he raises is that of institutional racism. We have to recognize, it is especially incumbent upon the larger area employers to recognize that their institutions reflect the values and the ideas and the structures that look a lot like the people who have historically been in leadership in those institutions, it can't help but be the case. Those institutions, though, are changing. As more minority employees are coming into these places the complexion of the institution is necessarily changing but sometimes the structures, the policies of those institutions don't change fast enough to really reflect what the institution looks like from within. In other words, employees don't see that their concerns, their needs are reflected always by the institutions they work for. And that is a problem that our area employers really need to take a look at.

Holloway:
Mac, can you speak to some of the area employers, and I know some specific references to the Chamber, but I guess, is that an accurate reflection here, is it a make up of the city and is the city as a whole working on, you touched on it earlier, working on changing some of this.

Williams:
Well, I think they are, at the Chamber. I'll respond to one thing that Mr. Edgerton said and that is we do have an African American employee at the Chamber. She is new but she has been there about two months now working with our existing industry and business. We have several African Americans who are board members of the Chamber. Ms. Proctor is a member of our county economic development commission, one of two African Americans who sit on that board. Our next chairman of the board of the Chamber is an African American business man here in town, Darryl Hart. So we are trying, at our side, at our institution, to try to do things to engage a diverse part of the community and get people involved who have traditionally not been involved.

Metz:
One of the complaints that often surfaces, even among companies that manage to recruit minorities to the area is that they don't stay. And one of the reasons why they don't stay is the support system for them. They don't find themselves as welcome in the community as, for example, a white person might find themselves. And so they tend to leave after a while, if they have some certain commitment to exhaust and then find other opportunities.

Holloway:
These are real concerns and I'm not unaware in many instances that criticisms of programs like this, even that we do sometimes exclude some of these issues, so I'm glad that he brought that up and that these are real issues that I think we all are dealing with, but I think this kind of dialogue continuing is what will help all of us to improve. We have another comment or question, sir?

M:
My name is Charles Carter, I'm a teacher at North Buncombe High School and I'm also a candidate for North Carolina State Senate. One of the elements that I've noticed when I've been campaigning is that we've got several different economic commissions but I've never seen or heard of a group getting together involving UNC-A, involving our technical schools, our local Buncombe County schools, Asheville City Schools, as well as the Chamber, Advantage West, the different entities within our community that do pursue economic development and I just wanted to pose the question as to why we don't involve all of those groups and sit down in one area so that we can better reflect the color of our skin as you were talking about earlier.

Holloway:
While you are thinking about that response, let me just say a heartfelt thanks to Chancellor _____ and the people here at UNC-Asheville for hosting this because they didn't have to host this difficult discussion and this is one step for doing that. And the former Chairman of the Board, Jesse Ray, who also was instrumental in helping us to do this, and that is one thing that we are finding in going around the state, that our UNC campuses can be a catalyst and help encourage the business community, the education and a lot of the faculty are involved in these things going on. But how can we do this that he is talking about?

Katz:
Well, UNC-A has been instrumental in taking the first steps towards initiating dialogue between area institutions. The Opening Doors program is an inter-race dialogue program that explores the impact of race in institutional settings, be they in the work place or educational settings. Area participants include UNC-A, Mission Memorial Hospital of St. Joseph's System and also the Mountain Area Health Education Center. And people in those institutions at all levels are exploring the impact of race in their own institutions and sharing their experiences and their struggles in trying to deal with these sorts of issues as they move toward establishing diversity in their institutions.

Holloway:
Another, I guess, criticism. We did a program several years ago and talked about this when it was distributed nationally. The lady on the panel was the author of a book called White to White on Black White and she said "Jay, I want to know how you are going to promote this program to the white community because what I have to say is not to the black community." And she said that one of the problems is that when the conversation of race comes up, it is for the most part the minority or the black community that brings it up. And they don't have the power to effect change. And I think what he's talking about, if you get the powerbrokers, the business and leadership as well as grassroots representation all talking. But that conversation needs to come from the establishment of the large community. Would you care to comment to that, anyone?

Metz:
I think that colleges, for example, colleges, universities, technical schools, all of these organizations should be, and they can provide excellent opportunities for such a forum. And where the opportunity is is what you take advantage of. If UNC-A can bring all these people to the table then they should. It would be best if government could bring them to the table because government would have not only the power but they'd have the money to effect some of the changes that are necessary once they are surfaced. One of the issues that I talked about, that being of education, is something that needs to be addressed by the group, as such. Because I understand that one of the problems is minorities getting past the entrance exams in some cases. And if that is an issue then that is something that can be addressed locally and something can be done about it.

Holloway:
You mentioned earlier about coming to the table. We have about five minutes left, believe it or not, you want to make a comment before we go.....

Williams:
I just wanted to respond to the other gentleman's question about bringing people to the table. We spoke about the bottom line, you began the segment where it was about the bottom line. I think there is a compelling reason for institutions in economic development to get together and make this conversation happen and that is because, as I said earlier, ethnic diversity can be a bottom line reason to exclude a community on a site search or keep them included on a site search by a perspective company. And again, many of the more enlightened proactive employers out there have a very aggressive program to make their workforce a diverse one and they are looking for communities that embrace that same concept, and so there is a very compelling reason to have the dialogue.

Holloway:
Thank you. Speaking of coming to the table we have a person who is very active in this community that has come to the table with a question or comment.

M:
Hi, I'm Bob Smith, I'm with community relations. And I think part of the problem, you know, I'm looking for those enlightened industries and businesses. I think the problem is that I have to connect with Mr. Metz here to get somebody in the door. I hear the dialogue from the CEOs and the personnel folk about "send us some folks and get us some folk in" but when a person turns in their application and they are very rudely met at the door, the application is slammed on the table and they come back around to people like me who sent them there and I think, we talk about it, but we're really not real about it. You know, if I can connect with Mark Gordon at Mission St. Joe, I mean, at the hospital, if I can connect with Bill I can get somebody in. But I can't get anybody in any other way. I have to make that contact, make that connection. It hasn't trickled down to the folks who receive that application and give you that second look. And unless you hold their hand and walk them through, folks don't get in. So, I'm not hearing this stuff, I'm not seeing this stuff really happen. I'm hearing it. You talk a good talk. But when it gets down to it we can send you qualified folks, and you only talk about qualified when you talk about black people. We can send you those people, but they don't get through the door because they are met rudely, their application is slammed on the table, if people look them in the eye at all, and then they come back to Bob and "what's up?" So, I'd like to hear about that because you are not training the people who are taking these applications or you're not really real about it. And that is my issue.

Holloway:
Does this trickle down to the front line people?

Metz:
I think you can't count on it to trickle down, it has to be pushed down. If you wait on it to trickle it takes many, many years to trickle down. The biggest part of the problem today is how we were brought up. And we bring all of this baggage with us and these attitudes continue to effect us the rest of our lives unless something happens to cause us to change our attitudes about people who are different than we are. And that comes out. And it comes out when that person appears at the door with an application into a company that doesn't have people like that. The same attitudes come out and the person is discarded as opposed to being invited in.

Holloway:
We just have a little over a minute left and I want to get this comment in quickly, please.

M:
Yeah, I just kind of had one comment kind of reflecting what Bob had to say, that if these companies really want some African Americans or other minorities, they need to go out, recruit, find and bring them back. Most of the companies have the resources, they can do it. They have to make a concerted effort to bring those folks in there to reflect the community. If they can't find them in the community that is not an excuse. If you can't find them here you go and find them and bring them in. And once you have done that, and hopefully before you have done that probably, you need to make sure that your workforces will accept those African Americans and other minorities. Because they have to feel like they are welcome in that work force and they are a part of that workforce. So, that is something we need to keep in mind, thank you.

Holloway:
Any quick concluding comments, less than a minute here.

Katz:
I think these institutions need to have a clear vision of what diversity can bring to them, then they have to have a vision of our they are going to use that vision to create opportunities from within the institution.

Metz:
I think the future is going to be very different for all of us. Asheville is changing as is any other place and there are more minorities of all kinds appearing on the streets every day.

Williams:
I agree with what the other panelists have said.

Holloway:
Great, well, I tell you, time has completely run out. Well, we want to thank you all and we thank the studio audience and we thank UNC-Asheville for hosting this Town Hall Meeting. We thank you most of all for watching and we hope that, of course, that as you think about the bottom line you will think about your attitudes, your behavior as a result of those attitudes when you think about racial issues and economic issues and what are the consequences of your behaviors when doing that. Also, we hope that you will engage yourself in making a difference in your community because you can make a difference. And think about whether or not you value diversity. We have seen on this campus and around the state that the UNC schools can help and be a part of encouraging this dialogue. So we thank you so much for joining us. We'd like to encourage you to visit our Website. The address is on your screen. To find more information about economic opportunities and race relations in North Carolina and around the country and please call us at the number or fax us with your comments or questions. So, please join us again next week for another Town Hall Meeting in Durham. You have a blessed evening and a good night.