Holloway:
Tonight's topic is race relations again. We're at another Town Hall Meeting in Greenville, Pitt County. Town Hall Meeting tonight on Black Issues Forum, next. [MUSIC]

Holloway:
Good evening, I'm Jay Holloway, your host of Black Issues form. Welcome once again to another Town Hall Meeting. This is part 2, tonight. We're in Greenville, North Carolina. This is cohosted by ECU and I'm Jay Holloway, once again. We have a distinguished panel again, also our mayor is back, but before I introduce her let me introduce Javier Castillo, he's with LBA International Communications, who is also on the Governor's Commission for Hispanic Affairs. Thank you for being with us tonight.

Castillo:
A pleasure.

Holloway:
Yes, and Mayor Nancy Jenkins. She is back for part 2 again tonight. She is the Mayor of Greenville. Thank you for being with us once again.

Jenkins:
Thank you for being in Greenville.

Holloway:
All righty. And last but not least is Jim Rouse. Jim is President of Minority Voice Communications. He has two radio stations and a newspaper here in Eastern North Carolina, in Greenville. Thank you for being here, Jim.

Rouse:
Thank you.

Holloway:
We're talking about race relations once again and we had an interesting discussion on program last week and we didn't have enough time to get into all the questions. We talked about some issues but we seem to have some real issues and hopefully come up with some real solutions. But we bring another interesting dynamic to this discussion tonight, is the Hispanic community. Let's start with you, Javier. What does the Hispanic or what do Hispanic issues bring to the table when you already have issues like black and white going on here. How does that effect this piece and how do Hispanics view race relations in Eastern North Carolina here.

Castillo:
Well, you have to take it in a different perspective than just plain black and white issue because a couple, a number of years ago there were very few of us Hispanics in Pitt County. And now the last census shows an increase of over 300% to what it was in 1990. And you can see it in also the economic environment in our area. And this is an issue for the whole state, not just for Greenville or Pitt County _____. There is a demand for labor, certain industries and certain farms cannot actually exist if it was not for this labor. So these people are coming to Eastern North Carolina to work and they are finding employment. Our unemployment is low in the State and the same thing applies to our cities. And these people are working. But the issues are different. Because for them, many of them have come here illegally. They work. We have Hispanics, or Spanish -speaking people, because for me Hispanic is a ______ term to be politically correct. We have different colors, different races and we all speak Spanish, but we are 20 some different cultures and we are blended into the term they call Latino Hispanics. But these people have come and we are working in different areas. Like I'm in business. There are people at East Carolina University, doctors, professors. We have all kinds. But of course you have a vast majority population is working on the farms or in industry. Now, these people have come to our state because, as I said, there is labor. Now, they face a problem. Many of them do not have the legal status as called by Immigration. But they are contributing to our economy. They are paying taxes. And still they are not getting all the benefits that any citizen or resident that pays taxes will get. So, it is a kind of taxation without representation. And it has come to a point where certain industries can not exist, at the Governor's Council, in September, when the Governor appointed us and we went to the first meeting, at the Governor's Advisory Council, he said that without this Hispanic labor certain industries could crawl to their feet and could not work. One example, for example, the poultry industry. Turkey, tobacco. If you don't get this labor, you don't harvest your crops. So, they are a vibrant part of the economics in the area and still there are a lot of services that cannot be provided. There is a barrier of language, of education. They are not demanding because these people are low key. They are doing their work, they are contributing economically. You don't need to be blind to go to any of our big department stores and, I can assure you, at any given time in Greenville or in Wilmington, for example, you will have a Spanish-speaking person paying at the cash register, no matter if it is 11:00 at night or Sunday at 3:00. So you can see that.

Holloway:
Let's talk about that. Jim, you all work together. You've realized that this "other minority" is coming up and that is now part of your minority voice media empire, so to speak, in Eastern North Carolina. You want to talk about the black issues and the Hispanic issues and how you view that from Eastern North Carolina.

Rouse:
Yes, Jay, I've seen it coming, years ago. I had an experience with working with Puerto Rican brothers and sisters in New York City. And also seeing that our young black kids would not go out and work the farms so therefore our farmers went and got the cheapest labor, which was our Latin/Spanish brothers. And then I looked at the redevelopment of Eastern North Carolina and the overall state. There was a, and I hate to use this word, there was a new nigger in town. And I hate to put so bluntly like that, but that was, that person is the one that started working the farms. Our young black kids were seeking other grounds. And then I looked at, you know, as I got around town , being in the media, I looked at Pitt Community College, for example. We have maybe one department has, out of, maybe...that is a problem all over, you know. In your last week's program you had some professors from ECU sitting in the audience and this week they are back and they can tell us the problems we have at ECU. But ECU is a reflection of the community. We rely on those students. There is a large black population over there. There is a large Hispanic community right here in Eastern North Carolina that is doing jobs that black folks used to do. So, I've seen the need and with Javier's help we were able to give them the kind of music and programming where information is powerful. But I do see that we need to come together in more forums like this. There need to be more round tables of white folk, black folk and we need to get rid of those perceptions that white folk may have about black folk. Because you and I were born and raised right here in America, we're not going anywhere. And the only thing we know is the American dream.

Holloway:
Mayor, how has the larger community received this new minority population growing so fast and how is the larger community dealing with that.

Jenkins:
Well, I, as you have noticed, I like to always think positively about Greenville and think that we have done all things in a rather fine way. I think, though as a small, relatively small, southern town, most southern towns appear to be rather inbred and like the way they were. For a number of years we were agrarian. Everything about our environment has changed in the last several decades. And I think Greenville has done that very nicely. There was a time when perhaps we rather inbred, and yet we welcome people, I feel, from all nationalities, from all parts of the world in coming here. As I mentioned before, we not only celebrate but we appreciate the diversity and I think that is a general feeling. These two gentleman on either side of me have done as much as anyone else to help us foster that spirit. And it is still going to take some attention. But I believe that we are doing well.

Rouse:
Mayor, can I just say something, Jay?

Holloway:
Please.

Rouse:
You know, Mayor, we still, there's a rebel in front of the courthouse. And when you have things like that, Johnny Rebel standing in front of the courthouse. And I grant you, it is hard to change old thinking, but if we can talk about these issues, Johnny Rebel and South Carolina with them hanging the Confederate flag. These kind of old institutional racism things, you know, if we can start getting rid of those kinds of things and talking, more discussion on race, hopefully there can be a change.

Holloway:
Well, speaking about people doing things, we also have someone who is in the audience who is in the audience who is at the microphone. This is Barbara Finner. She is Executive Director of the West Greenville Community Development Corporation and I assume you may want to talk about it from that point of view. Would you share some comments or do you have a question?

F:
Yes, first all of all I want to thank you and the Black Issues Forum for being in Greenville, North Carolina. I really appreciate this forum. Yes, as the mayor says and has Jim has said, we are all doing our best to work together. But institutional racism is definitely alive. When you listen to, when I listen to Bishop Royal and Ms. Council last week and the mayor, you know, I said to myself each person was correct from their own point of view. As I listen to the mayor, I know the mayor is very proud of what is happening economically in the city of Greenville, in terms of the growth and development. But dealing with the growth in the area, the sector of economic is not dealing with racism. It is not dealing with racism. Physical development is one form of development. Human capacity building is another entirely. Institutional racism that we have to come together to resolve. It is part of the fabric of American society. I took the liberty to do some reviewing of some information and what I found is that it was instituted in our Constitution when our forefathers came together to put together the Constitution the issue of slaves was a major issue at that Constitution. The North said "let's get rid of this, this is the thing that is providing a sore eye to all of us in the country." And the Southern delegates said "if you do that, we're walking out of here, we're going to even consider a Constitution." Now, that sounds like we had good guys and one side and bad guys on the other side. That was not the case. In the South it was an economic issue. The South had all the slaves, for the most part, had all the slaves and the economy of the South was founded on slavery. And so they came together and there was compromise. And when we talk to politicians we always think about the concept of compromise. And the integrity of this society was compromised at the Constitutional convention because at that time, blacks were considered three fourths of a person. In order to compromise the South. And we are still compromising. And until we come together and really look at this history, I mean it has been well documented, we can say we didn't experience, of course, I know the mayor doesn't experience what I experience as it relates to economic racism or racial discrimination, I and my family. And so she can't, she doesn't feel it, so she is being very honest when she says everything is fine. If you are part of a privileged class, you can't feel it. If you are, on the other hand, a part of a class that has been systemically oppressed in school systems, in hiring practices, in the market place in general....

Holloway:
Let's talk about how we recognize these things and how we deal with this compromise. This is historical and she says it is still going on, how do we deal with that?

Rouse:
Well, we've got to just, you know, the Rebel, Johnny Rebel, that is a big statue in front of the Pitt County courthouse and 99% of the clientele going into the Courthouse each day is young, black kids who are involved with the court system. And they see Johnny Rebel and it says Confederate right in the front. That is just one instance.

Holloway:
How do we recognize that and move forward. Because, as I mentioned last week, we did this special on Africans in America and we can talk about our history. We can learn from that. But need to be able to deal with that, recognize that and move on.

Rouse:
Education. Education, Jay. Dr. Best sitting out there, an historian in himself. We've got Dr. Bernard from the University. And I can go on and go on. African American history is very important. And how many white kids know the greatness of our contributions. So, therefore, we've got to change the whole thinking in our school systems. I know right here in Pitt County the drop out rate for young black kids is higher than white kids. So we've got to come up with a plan that includes Black History at an early age for children. Maybe my generation, I can forget it, but I'll be fine. But I've got to prepare for the future, for the children for tomorrow, and it takes history.

Holloway:
We have another comment or question at the microphone, sir. You want to go right ahead with your comment or question?

M:
Si, muchas gracias por la mi opportunidad presenta mi pregunta. At that moment there, there is a distance that is put, that is placed between what I'm saying and what you're receiving and what you're feeling. My comment and my thoughts are, we are talking about institutional racism. If we look at it not just from Greenville or Pitt County but if you are looking at it as a whole to include ECU and all, you have to step back for a moment and ask yourself is or are the Latino people being included inclusively or are we creating an artificial access barrier that denies us the opportunity to advance the culture. It is not really a competitive position but one of an acceptance that we need to share the resources from a minority standpoint. That is to say that if you look at the School of Social Work, and I'm not a student at the School of Social Work, but I looked at it and I went back ten years. Not one single Hispanic has graduated from that School of Social Work. We've got a problem there because as the Congress found in '96, that the Hispanics, the Latino culture is underrepresented in the Federal system but yet we are not advancing our younger people, our 18, our 17 year olds in through the educational side of the house. As that population is growing, again, Congress did note that there was a need for an active recruitment process. In the services, delivery within Pitt County or in Greenville or in ECU there is not a presence of an aggressive move forward to establish a means by where my culture can engage the services due us.

Holloway:
Let's talk about that. Let's get the panel to address that.

Castillo:
Well, the issue is that right now with Congress passing the change of the Immigration Law it puts a lead. So you have this mass of people working in North Carolina, for example, and they don't have any access to benefits. And some of the benefits are denied to their children and some of them have been born in the United States. They put so many rules and regulations that even when they try to fix something they make it worse. And that is where I am coming from, that I have publicly openly asked our North Carolina delegation in Congress, including our two senators and all our representatives, to look at this matter and go for an amnesty. Something has to be done because these people are working but they cannot be part of the mainstream.

Holloway:
Mayor, there is a, I keep referring, I hate to, this series we did on PBS, the Africans in America, but one of the things they said was this great paradox in American history, and I'm relating that to today, of a country that was founded on liberty and yet justified slavery. And here we are today, a country, a state, a city, a municipality that say we value diversity, yet somehow we justify these things going on. We say we value diversity but what do we really do in a climate of trying to remove affirmative action. What do cities and municipalities do about this dilemma.

Jenkins:
I think that all you can do is _____ your little part. Everybody working together can make a difference. For instance in the city of Greenville we have hiring policies of which I'm very proud, that we hire various sorts of people, backgrounds. And as I alluded to before in our various boards and commissions and in the make up of council and all those sorts of things. It is an historical phenomenon if you will that the statue for instance that you spoke of is a part of history. And it should be seen as just that. It shouldn't have to be removed in my judgment. We simply explain it fairly and it is education as Mr. Rouse pointed out.

Holloway:
Is it fair to say, though, that it is not necessarily a priority to make sure that you do tangible things to value diversity of minorities in different areas.

Jenkins:
I'll grant you that may be true. Everyone today seems so busy with their own lives, I don't offer this as an explanation, but as a sort of excuse, that people of good will simply have to work in a positive way. There are always going to be problems.

Rouse:
And our churches have to do a better job. You know, the Catholic Church, the Black Church, the various churches. It is the gathering point for just about all of us who are into our Lord and Savior and trying to get to heaven. But until the churches reach out, like the Catholic Church for my Latin brothers. You know, they depend on the Catholic Church. And the Catholic Church, I believe, is doing a good job on outreach programs. Javier, I've heard him work close with the church. But I think the Black Church has got to do a little more when it comes to, we know in our prison systems in the state of North Carolina, and we're talking about trying to improve, there's no preventive programs. So, the Black Church has got to come up with a program to create some kind of dialogue where we're not going to put our money in the various white banks unless you can work a deal with these young kids who are not violent kids, back into the church and the church work them back into the community. And the same thing in the Latin community. You know, it is very diverse, all over this state. I believe our white brothers have got to deal with the Latin brothers. We as black folk who have been here all of our lives, we've got to take a hold of the political power and be diverse in the Republican party, the Democratic party, the Independent party, the Libertarian party and demand, instead of just going out and just giving our vote, but we've got to put some issues on the table before we vote.

Holloway:
All right. We just have about four minutes, we have a few questions here. Let's see if we can move to those fairly quickly, sir.

M:
I just have a very quick comment. I'm Charles Dameron, I'm an East Carolina University student. I'm an ambassador as well as I'm involved in another group on campus called the North Carolina Student ______ Health Coalition. I started this group on campus last semester and our main focus is dealing with healthcare issues in Eastern North Carolina, not only here in Greenville but in other towns, Tillery, NC, which is a small town to the north of here. But we are, most of the students in this group are white and as a point of encouragement to the panelists that we've had this week as well as last week is that there are a group of students on campus that really care not only for Hispanics in our community but also African Americans in our community and increasing awareness of the health care issues related to those particular groups in Eastern North Carolina and how we, as people who may have more health care, maybe more opportunity, how we can reach out to those that are underserved medically.

Holloway:
Okay, comment or question, we're going to get these other two comments real quickly and I'm going to ask you all to respond to those, we have just about three minutes.

M:
My name is Carlton Smith, I'm from the Federation of Partisans against Police Brutality. I'm with the ______ Nation and Black Autonomy. It is more of a comment than a question. Basically what I've heard tonight is basically nothing but just words and bunch of catch phrases on togetherness and unity and all this other stuff. What we need as a community, as people, is to bring back more communalism to where people in their community has control of what they do and what they say. People say we need to bring the churches back, well, essence of that, I'm not a Christian, I don't believe in Christian identity, but I am still an African person, I'm still effected by what goes on in my community. Therefore what we need to do is to basically is stop the wage slavery that is happening on ECU campus and in the Poultry Division where our Latino brothers work at, you see what I'm saying. If these people are working, yes, true that, but if they are working for pennies and dimes, what good is that? We need to get rid of this march towards Workfare that basically brings the minimum wage down to a level of just under the poverty line. Our minimum wage is under the poverty line and it is ridiculous and sick that we sit here and debate in a forum where basically no real people from the community are even in the forum or even informed about a community forum in Greenville. This does not represent Greenville and won't represent the African and Latino people in Greenville until we get rid of the ugly face that is racism on our campus. Until African Americans from the west side of Greenville can enjoy a nice time downtown in ECU's district of Greenville, till these problems are eradicated and done away with, racism in the institutionalization and criminalization of Latino and Black people is still going to conquer us as long as our police departments can run savage and beat and shoot anyone they feel like doing, then racism is going to be alive and well and we need to fight to stop that.

Holloway:
Thank you, sir. And the last quick comment, if I can ask you please, very quickly.

M:
Professor King Meadows, East Carolina Political Science. We've all talked about history but just like the slave owners got rich off the oppression of African Americans, the Kennedys got rich off of Prohibition, what are whites doing to redistribute the wealth that allow African Americans to be oppressed.

Holloway:
We've got just a minute, I want to ask you all to make some quick concluding comments, if you'd like to address either the economic issue, the community issue or reaching out and health care.

Castillo:
I think the Governor has understood the issues because suddenly it is like you are waking up and you have a new ball game and you have to deal with it, that is basically the way I like to put it in colloquial terms. And because there are health issues, there are education issues involved, the communities like here in Greenville, they have to hire interpreters, because people are coming to work, they might not speak English at the moment, and you have to deal with that society. So, we understand that there's some pains to overcome.

Holloway:
Okay, Mayor, quickly.

Jenkins:
Absolutely I say amen to everything that has been said by Javier. I still believe I need to look very positively on things and say, as this young man said, this may not represent Greenville, it is a fairly small group. But it is a step forward in at least bringing the issues on the table.

Rouse:
Let me just say to that young man, until black folk try to stop being like white folk and come to the table to negotiate, we're not going to have any progress. We've got to look to ourselves to make change, that's what we've got to do.

Holloway:
And let me thank you all for participating and thank the audience for coming tonight. And you, our television audience, let me encourage you to contact your local municipalities, you communities, be engaged and be involved. Next week we'll be in Elizabeth City, North Carolina, on the campus of Elizabeth City State University and if we haven't come to your area, we'll be coming there very soon. Let me also ask you to encourage your campus to be involved and hopefully ECU and the city and the county will work closer together to resolve some of these issues. We'd like to encourage you to visit our Website. The address is on your screen. I'm Jay Holloway, thank you so very much for tuning in tonight, Black Issues Forum. You have a blessed evening and a good night.