Holloway:
Tonight we continue with another Town Hall Meeting on race relations in Elizabeth City, next on Black Issues Forum. [MUSIC]

Holloway:
Good evening, I'm Jay Holloway and welcome to another episode of Black Issues Forum, and another Town Hall Meeting on race relations. Tonight we're in Elizabeth City, North Carolina on the campus of Elizabeth City State. Last week we had an interesting discussion about race relations and we continue that. This time we're going to talk about economics and how that impacts race relations.. First let me welcome our panel and also our studio guests. Let me introduce you first to Dr. Denauvo Robinson, Vice Chancellor for Institutional Advancement at Elizabeth City State University. Thank you for being with us, Dr. Robinson.

Robinson:
Thank you, sir.

Holloway:
Also, Nancy McAllister. She is President of the Camden County NAACP, thank you for being with us Ms. McAllister.

McAllister:
Thank you for having me.

Holloway:
And also Don Cherry, Councilman from Elizabeth City. Thank you very much also for being with us. We talked last week about the race relations but more specifically about anxieties and issues of trust and mistrust. But especially when you add the notion of economics it brings another aspect to the picture. Which of you would like to start this discussion. This community is 50/50 roughly black and white but I would assume that the wealth and income is not as equally spread. Do you want to start, Don? What is your perception from a City Council point of view.

Cherry:
Jay, there is no doubt that there are some discrepancies in income. There have been more opportunities for the white population in this community. But we are also fortunate that Elizabeth City has Elizabeth City State University which has provided a lot of income to this region. It has provided a middle class and an upper middle class in small community which is unique, and that has been very important to the development of Elizabeth City.

Holloway:
Well, in terms of, we have a campus community, but let me go to Ms. McAllister. Some of the criticism of these programs sometimes is that the grassroots person is not represented. You represent the NAACP which in many instances represents the common African American. Do they get that kind of benefit, the average black in Camden County or Pasquotank County? Now, I know that your colleague next to you represents Elizabeth City State University, but not everyone works for Elizabeth City State University in this community.

McAllister:
I found that the community at large, or the black community, often sees the University as some place up on the hill, except for those people who work here. But for the black community at large, until recent years, there has been some reaching out in the last four or five years the University has been reaching out into the community with community development of housing and different areas. But until then many of the grassroots people just were not a part of what was going on at the University and it sort of had the reputation of being over here, somewhere on the hill. That people did not relate, although as the Councilman said, there are quite a few people who actually work for the University who somehow are somewhat isolated from grassroots I feel.

Holloway:
Dr. Robinson, this criticism of university is not unique. That is probably with most universities everywhere in the country and everywhere in North Carolina have that perception. But one of the things, your institution is hosting this dialogue, and that is one aspect of improving that and beginning these discussions. How does Elizabeth City look at contributing to this community in the discussion that we're having now.

Robinson:
The University sees it as part of their responsibility, particularly under the leadership of Chancellor Mickey Burnham to be a part of the community, to have outreach programs. And not just have them going out from the community, but to assess the needs of the community from the community perspective so that there can be a reciprocity if you will of understanding, of working together. That is what we really need. We're people. We're black, we're white. But underneath all of that we're people with some very basic needs. We have needs for housing, we have needs for jobs, we have needs for our children to be properly educated. Those are things that go above and beyond just what race we are. It is going to be those kinds of things that we are going to need to, I think, rise to, to be able to come together. We have a very unique opportunity here to talk about the diversity, to celebrate those differences that we have and come together on one plane. To bring the University into the community. To bring the community onto the University. Economically not all people at the University are middle class or upper middle class. We have a range of employment here. We have a range of salaries. What we're needing to do is to make it possible for those people who are so-called upper middle class as well as those people who aren't to have a shot at the pie. To have a shot at a good education for their children. To come and have these kinds of dialogues. The more we don't talk about an issue the more we stand to not understand the other person's point of view. And we have to have forums like this that allow us to say how we feel and then shake hands and walk away. But continue this kind of dialogue. I am hoping that what we start this evening and what we had last week won't stop. That if we really want to make a change, we must continue these kinds of forums with all the citizenry of Elizabeth City, not just certain portions.

Holloway:
Well, let me talk about that because I want to say that the UNC systems schools, I asked 11 chancellors to host this and each one of them accepted. And what I have noticed so far in these meetings is that partnerships either have already existed between communities, the city, government and the institutions and they become more visible and viable after these discussions and hope they will continue. What kind of partnerships are going on in this community between the community, the university and the city.

Robinson:
One of the things that our Chancellor, Mickey Burnham, is putting forward is an organization that would allow us to look at the city leaders, look at the mayor, to include the present director of the Chamber of Commerce, Rotary Clubs, as well as people here at the University to begin to establish a dialogue on what are our needs. And through that kind of working together I think we can really address some of the issues that, not plague us, but are here in the city.

Holloway:
Okay, we're going to come back to that. I want you all to answer that. But let's go to our microphone now, we have a gentleman I know that waited last week and thank you so much for coming back.

M:
Thank you. My name is Bill Layman, I'm a business man in Elizabeth City and I want to thank you for hosting this forum, I think this is tremendous and I want to thank Elizabeth City State University and Chancellor Mickey Burnham for hosting it as well. Dr. Robinson talked about bridging the gap between the community and the university and I applaud him for that, I think that is tremendous. And I think that our community has not realized the potential that this University has to offer. And I would like to suggest in an effort for us to get to know each other, races to get to know each other, people to get to know each other, that we take full advantage of the opportunities at the University, through cultural and sporting events. And I'd also like to see the same thing done at College of the Albemarle so that there is a cross section, so that we get to know each other. And I think once we do that, then I think we can make strides in economic development and going beyond the trust issue, those types of things. I was at homecoming here a month or so ago and I was dismayed that I was one of maybe 20 at the most whites in probably a group of 3,000. But at the same time, I've been to watch the Virginia Symphony at College of the Albemarle there with 1,000 people there and maybe only 10 African Americans. So, my point is that it is time for everybody to try to come together just to get to know each other. And I guess my question to the panel might be, if they agree with me in that, how do we foster that type of relationship and encourage that to happen at not only our educational institutions but just social events throughout the community.

Holloway:
Good question. How do we foster that? How do we build on these partnerships?

Cherry:
Jay, the city has taken some initiatives to start such programs as a teen center, a senior center. These programs give an opportunity for both races to meet together in a social environment which is conducive to better race relations.

Holloway:
What about from the community's point of view? Nancy, do you want to....?

McAllister:
I was listening to the gentleman talking about the symphony and the different programs that some whites attend and some blacks attend and that issue, I think, the symphony, of course, relates to all groups. But there have been programs also that only blacks have attended. And I think it has to do with the ethnicity that the young man was talking about. That actually relates to the black culture or to any culture that the citizens can relate to. And until we are able to find those activities that relate to all groups, that sort of mesh the races, and I'm not sure of all the activities that we could have, I know our Little League games, sometimes our young people on that level socialize more than our adults. And once we become adults we tend to move into our own little circles. And that even happens in the high schools. I visit the middle schools and the high schools and the schools are integrated but they aren't really integrated on the playgrounds, other than the actual sports. When the youngsters are in the lunchroom the black students are together and the white students are together. It is very seldom that you see the friendships that actually carry over. So, until we actually start providing those activities that all people can relate to and start from an early age. Even the music, you know, there's music black youngsters would rather listen to and white youngsters would rather listen to.

Holloway:
So, you are talking about finding those events that we can all have in common. I know we have an expert in the audience that is going to come to us later on the panel, but I know she would talk about valuing diversity and if we don't step out of our comfort zone where we can go to these other events, it still may take longer. Also, I want to ask one other question before we go to the microphone. We talked about the economic issues of the diversity of the incomes. Now, if the average black in this county or in this area is not employed by Elizabeth City, is the rest of the community as open to recruiting and helping bridge that gap and where is the responsibility on the other businesses and employers to help that.

McAllister:
In Camden County, which I call a suburb of Elizabeth City, many of our citizens, and those who do not work in Elizabeth City, the majority of our citizens work in Virginia. Many of them are in the middle income level but the income that is received is from Virginia because we are closer there. Many of our young people, for housing and economic reasons, are unable to purchase housing in our county and they move to Elizabeth City. Well, we have no apartments and that kind of thing in Elizabeth City, but economics is one of the reasons that these young people, and I'm talking black and probably some whites too, move to Elizabeth City for housing, and it is for economic reasons, because they cannot afford, in my county, our commissioners set a limit on, for example, something like 40, you have to have 40,000 square feet before you can put a house or the marginal home that we have. And many young people cannot afford to purchase property that would afford that. So many of our young people move to Elizabeth City or out of state or other places. Economically it is a problem.

Holloway:
Let's go to the microphone, we have another comment or question. Go right ahead, sir.

M:
How you doing. My name is Paul Brown, I'm the Assistant Dean here at Elizabeth City State University. I also host a weekly talk show and we've addressed this some time ago. One of the things that I find, I'm from the old school, mama always said if you want to effect change it starts at home, it starts from you, from within. And this is Elizabeth City State University in Elizabeth City. We have three colleges here. Elizabeth City State University, College of the Albemarle and the Roanoke Bible College. The Lord has blessed us. We have more than enough to make things happen here to really effect change and make it what we want to be in race relations. I guess the question comes, each one of us has to ask ourselves, have we done all that we can do to make a difference in the world, in our life? Now, I was born here. The problems were here when I was born. They are here now. Now, the question becomes, are they going to be here for my children to take care of. When does it stop, when do we take ahold of what we have done to make society the way it is, like you said it is a small town, we know what the problem is. I don't feel like organizations make decisions, individuals do, and that is an important aspect when you're dealing with helping people to overcome some of the barriers, some of the things that may happen so that we can all grow. But certainly Elizabeth City State University, Roanoke Bible College, College of the Albemarle, need to be a catalyst for this change, as Dr. Robinson was saying. We are here to insure that this doesn't continue to come to the future, that there is a better future. Now, King had a dream, but what is our dream?

Holloway:
What are we doing individually in this community, black and white, to encourage this kind of thing and encourage change. That is something unique about eastern North Carolina. Even over 100 years ago the diversity of black and white wealth has carried on for hundreds of years in terms of the wealth was, a large majority of the wealth was in a very few hands, during slavery. And in eastern North Carolina some of the same patterns have stayed the same over hundreds of years. So, what he is talking about is not just his generation previous, this has been going on for a long time. What can we do as individuals and what are people doing here in this community to effect change like that and take advantage of these resources to change economically?

Cherry:
Jay, there is no doubt that the city recognizes and other governmental units in this area recognize the need to expand the economic base. Recently the Natural Gas Bond passed and that will bring new and expanded opportunities here in this area. Also, the Museum of the Albemarle has been funded which will unite both black and white community in this area, it is a very vital economic tool that is going to bring this community together. We have lacked roads and transportation and in recent years we now have a hope of a four lane highway from Elizabeth City to Raleigh, and that will come to fruition in the next couple of years. And so even though we were a farm based economy for many years, and with the industrial revolution basically passing over to us and moving to the Piedmont area, we are now taking some steps to catch up and expand the economic opportunities in this area and it is going to benefit everyone.

Holloway:
Now, that was going to be my question, are blacks in this community trained and qualified in entrepreneur positions to take advantage of these new opportunities like that, to build on these contracts?

McAllister:
I don't think at the moment we, other than the University, and many of our students at the University are going into those areas. One area that many of us have, as African Americans, is the education, specifically, that many of our African American students are not going into education. Therefore our students are not seeing African American teachers in our schools in this area. Not that our white teachers are not as concerned about our students, but it is always good that our students know or can identify with some of the role models of African Americans and going into that field, that will help to promote the economic development of our area. Many of our smaller communities are just beginning, as the Councilman said, to look at the economic development opportunities that eastern North Carolina has not been a part of, and the bond issue is a good example. So, hopefully we can steer both races, or especially African Americans, towards some of those areas. Because right now many of our young people leave the area to find jobs that they need in those different areas. Except for our students who are the older students who are already established here.

Holloway:
Dr. Robinson, you wanted to mention earlier something related to that?

Robinson:
We are very aware of the issue entrepreneurialship and that if we are going to make a change that we have to have more African American business owners. That we have to for self in order to have some parity. One of the things that we are starting to establish here at ECSU is an entrepreneurial institute so that we can begin to train our young people to think about starting their own business and not always thinking about, where can I get a job but to go ahead and create your own job. We also need to look at being able to fund those opportunities. Far to often a young person can have a good business mind, a good business plan but then be thwarted once they go to try to get some money to get their business started. So, there needs to be some changing of, last week they talked about the old guard, there needs to be some changing of that to help free up some money or we have to do a little bit more for self so that once we get going we can help each other. As we look at immigrants coming to this country we see a real history of them staying amongst themselves and helping one another to grow. We're going to start having to do a lot of those kinds of things in order to make the parity for ourselves and not look for someone outside of us to do for us.

Holloway:
You know, I've thought about that quite often and people have called in a commented about the whole self help initiative and that is a whole black issue itself, as opposed to asking for someone else to give it to you. You know, James Brown said, "Open up the door, I'll get it myself." I wish some of the students would comment on that in terms of entrepreneurialship and your valuing of that. We only have a few minutes left though. And in the closing minutes of the program there is still a wide gap between black and white wealth and income. And there actually is a difference between income and wealth. Would anyone like to address that real briefly before we go to Denise Wimberly?

Robinson:
Well, it seems to me that one of the issues that we have to look at is the whole education piece and making sure that the education system as it exists now is going to allow us, in the future, to have the kind of financial opportunities that we need. I'm not so sure that if we don't become more involved in how our young people are being educated and trained that we won't be going backward rather than going forward.

Holloway:
Okay. Okay, Denise, go right ahead. This is Denise Wimberly, she is a diversity trainer for corporate and other businesses and she has had an opportunity to listen to our discussion and I'd like to have your perspective on what you see, some of the issue and a synopsis of some of the issues that we've talked about today.

F:
Well, one thing that I'd like to comment on is stepping outside of your comfort zone, all of the panelists have their separate communities and have made efforts to step outside of our comfort zone. But I want to piggyback what one of the participants said here at the microphone, that it does start with us as individuals. Organizations can do things but until we make up in our minds that we are willing to take the step to do something different, this is a racist country we live in. We are all racists, we are all a part of it. And until we do something different, whether that for you is going to a different church or participating in something that is uncomfortable or, as someone said in the audience, putting yourself in a position where in the larger society you are a majority and you put yourself in a position to be in the minority. We have to do something different, stick our necks out and take a chance. And then that will open up opportunities for us to engage in meaningful dialogue, not just dialogue but meaningful dialogue with people.

Holloway:
Well, Denise, thank you so much for that comment and we do have a minute left and there is another gentleman there. Do you want to make a quick comment, sir, before we conclude today?

M:
Yes. I'm Tom Gamble, I work for the county cooperative extension service as a horticultural and community development agent. And I would agree with what the young lady just said. I have enjoyed stepping out of my comfort zone. I've been challenged to do that by members of a group here in Elizabeth City known as the Hope Group and as a result of meeting with them, going to various churches, white and black, as a multiracial group, considering going to our campuses and eating in the dining halls amongst the students and show them what an interracial group is like and how we can function as friends and skilled professionals who like one another as people. I find it very satisfying. Also I attended this past year the River City Community Development Corporation's Leadership Development Institute in which I was the only white person present and I was really thrilled to hear the great dreams of the people who were present. Very similar to the same I would feel myself.

Holloway:
Thank you so much for your comments and we certainly appreciate our audience and thank you for watching and thank you to our studio panelists. I'm Jay Holloway your host, we really appreciate you joining us. This concludes part 2 of a Town Hall Meeting in Elizabeth City. Thank you so much to Chancellor Burnham here at Elizabeth City State University. We want to thank Elvin Jenkins also for helping us out here today. And we want to remind you to think about stepping out of your comfort zone. Think about your attitudes, your behaviors and those actions and engage yourself in these issues. Next week we'll be in the capitol city of Raleigh, North Carolina, for another Town Hall Meeting on the campus of N.C. State University. Please join us next week and remember to give us a call and visit us at our Website. Call us at the numbers on your screen. I'm Jay Holloway, you have a blessed evening and a good night.