Town Hall Meeting on Race Relations
University of North Carolina at Charlotte
Charlotte, NC
Part One
Episode #1414

Holloway	Host, Jay Holloway
Watson:	Troy Watson, President of the North Carolina Black Chamber of Commerce
Crawford:	Lisa Crawford, Charlotte local business owner
Woodard:	Dr. James Woodard, Chancellor of UNC-Charlotte
M:	Male voice
F:	Female voice

Holloway:
Good evening, tonight we are in Charlotte, North Carolina for another town hall meeting on race relations. Charlotte was cited as one of the best places to live in America for blacks. But is it? We'll talk about that next on Black Issues Forum. [FADE IN MUSIC] Good evening and welcome to another edition of Black Issues Forum. I'm Jay Holloway, your host. Tonight we are in Charlotte, North Carolina on the campus of UNC-Charlotte with another town hall meeting on race relations. We're talking about the Essence article from back in the summer of 1988 that cited Charlotte as the top place for black families to live in America, really, and that beat out quite a few major metropolitan areas in the country. But we want to talk about that tonight: is it? Does it mean the same? Has it been this equal for blacks and whites in terms of the economic growth, has the gap closed? And we'll talk about some of those issues. Let me introduce you fist to our distinguished panel ,and also welcome our studio audience here on the campus of UNC-Charlotte. First I'd like to introduce to you Troy Watson. Troy is the president of the North Carolina Black Chamber of Commerce. Troy, that you so much for being with us.

Watson:
Thank you.

Holloway:
Second is Lisa Crawford. Lisa is a local business owner here in Charlotte. Lisa, thank you for being here with us.

Crawford:
Thank you.

Holloway:
And last but not least is Dr. James Woodard, he is chancellor of UNC-Charlotte. Hi Dr. Woodard, Jim, thank you for being here. And thank you for having us here.

Woodard:
Thank you, it's our pleasure.

Holloway:
Let's talk about this. Essence had said this, but I think that many persons in this state and in Charlotte already knew about the economic growth and the potential of Charlotte. But if it's good for Charlotte, therefore I guess it's good for blacks, and it should be good for everyone. Let's start with the Chamber's point of view. Do you agree with that article? Has it been that good for blacks?

Watson:
No, I really don't agree whole-heartedly with that article. I think based on the criteria they used that they could come out with that outcome. But I live in a different world. I live in the Black Chamber world, where we are looking at economic development opportunities, both downtown, around town, and across the state. And we don't see those opportunities coming quite as readily as we think they should, with the level of population we have, and with the economic opportunities that we have. Charlotte is a great city, I love it, I see lots of things that we can do, but it is not happening right now. So we're going to have to kind of buckle down here and find some ways to make it happen.

Holloway:
Okay. Lisa, so you agree? You are a black business owner, you are a business owner who happens to be black, has it been that successful to you based on the success Charlotte has had?

Crawford:
I would say it has been. I may live in a little bit of a different world than Troy. Charlotte has been very good to me. I'm not so sure that is because I'm black or just because I run a good business. My first business as an event planner was very good, I was quite successful in doing events for the city, both for the majority community and for the minority community. In my new business my restaurant is doing very well. But that's because we focus on the community, the community as a whole. We've gotten support from the majority community as well as the minority community. And the focus of my restaurant and what we are trying to do is to stay in that mainstream, that we look at the community as a whole and we run a good business. So I think it has been.

Holloway:
Chancellor, you lead an institution that is here, UNC-Charlotte, that also has a success similar to the city of Charlotte, but the percentage of African-American enrollment is larger than any other traditionally white institution in the UNC system. Have you benefited from this national attention on the city of Charlotte? Is there a relationship there?

Woodard:
Oh, yeah, I think there is very much a relationship. First, Charlotte is seen as a city of opportunity, and as a result, many students from outside of Charlotte choose to come to our institution with some expectation that they will stay, live and work here after they graduate, and indeed the statistics suggest that a very high percentage do. And it's not just white students, African-American students come here from all over as well. And I think that's probably one of the major reasons that, as you say, we have the highest percentage of any of the traditional white campuses within the University of North Carolina system. And I think success feeds itself over a period of time as well.

Holloway:
Well we have an interesting distinction here on the panel, and that's the reason we had you on here, and we also have a diverse audience, and I would encourage the audience to come to the microphone as we begin the discussion on this issue, and I know that you may be having difficulty here, and maybe we'll try to get that sound up in the auditorium here. But let's go back, Troy, you don't see it that way. Is it because that the success has risen in Charlotte but the African-Americans have not, the cliché of 'the rising tide raises all ships,' you are saying that it is not?

Watson:
Well, I agree with the cliché, that a rising tide, that all ships rise with the tide. But what I'm saying is that, in terms of identifying opportunities for MBEs, minorities in Charlotte...

Holloway:
MBE is...

Holloway:
Minority Business Enterprise. It's been very difficult. We've had to deal with the regulatory aspect to make the MWBE programs work, we've had to deal with the regulatory aspect to get people to follow the 1964 Civil Rights Law, all those kinds of things, it takes positive energy away from you trying to take advantage of the opportunities. I'd be the first to say to everybody that I see opportunities galore in this city, and I've lived in some large cities. But I don't see us, as African-Americans, taking, or being able to take advantage of these things through lack of access to capital, through lack of access to markets and contracts, and those kinds of things are barriers that keep us from doing these things that we have the ability to do.

Holloway:
So when you say lack of access, you mean the, this is the financial capital here now, I guess, Charlotte. So it is here, but you are saying the access is not readily available because of discrimination, or is it...

Watson:
Well, I don't want to hang that jacket on anyone tonight, we have enough problems with racism and discrimination in Charlotte, yes, we have that. But I'm saying that we, for instance, are not making as many loans as we should be making through the Small Business Administration for example. Most loans are guaranteed through the Small Business Administration. And we have, the Black Chamber has a memo of understanding coming up that we are going to be signing with the SBA to try to pump those numbers up. They recognize the problem, we recognize the problem. So we will have to work together. I think you will find open arms in the black community to work with the majority community or anyone who wants to work with us so that we can fix the problem. But it is a problem.

Holloway:
Now this Essence article said that African-Americans in Charlotte took advantage of these resources, I think 62% was mentioned in the article, which was greater than Philadelphia, Detroit. Atlanta was ranked 16th, I mean many people think that Atlanta is the place for African-Americans, but yet students are coming here to UNC-Charlotte not only because it's a good institution but because of Charlotte and, you have Lisa next to you doing well...

Watson:
She's doing great business, yes.

Holloway:
Why is it, is it even this difference of opinion, even within the black community on this? And I do want to encourage our audience to please come to the microphone.

Watson:
Well, Lisa is a successful business person. The prism that she is looking through is her business, how successful that is and how she is taking advantage of the opportunities. I'm speaking from another vein, and that is that many people, hundreds of people we talk to from time to time, all over the state, that call and say-- "well, I'm having a problem getting this or getting that, I don't have access to this or getting contracts." To give you an example real quickly: the billions of dollars that are being spent on highway contracts, when decisions are being made about where that money is going to be spent, whose land is it going to go across, we're not in the room when those decisions are being made, so consequently we are not tapping into the opportunities there. These kinds of things are what I mean.

Woodard:
Jay, let me comment about this. I think Troy is not wrong, in that I do think there have been real improvements in this community so that the gap has closed some, but I don't think the gap has closed completely, and that is why there continues to be constant and very serious effort by much of the leadership, elected leadership, business leadership, to continue to work to make sure that the successes of Charlotte are broadly shared in our community. But the gap is not closed yet, and I think that some of the examples that he has pointed out are very real. This community, for example, and this state, has never had any kind of set-asides that would be used to help start up black businesses to succeed and to compete successfully, especially with city, county, state construction. Many state, many cities did that. We haven't done that in North Carolina. When we bid for road projects, it is simply the low bidder, and if you don't have a history in that business, then you simply can't compete successfully on a low-bid project. I think those of us that have positrons where we can influence things, have an obligation to help the community help the minority community learn to do business, especially with state agencies such as the university. And we work with a group to do that, the gap is closing but the gap is not closed I think.

Watson:
I agree. If I may. I agree that we have great leadership in Charlotte, if you look downtown at what is happening there, we have great leadership, which is why the opportunities are so much more great that we can take advantage of.

Woodard:
Working together.

Watson:
Yeah.

Holloway:
Let's go to, we have our first comment or question from the audience. Sir go right ahead, your comment or question please.

M:
Okay, basically I wanted to comment on the reason that there is a difference of opinion up there, it's because if you ask any successful white person in Charlotte, there is no racial problem in Charlotte. They feel like here that as long as you don't talk about it, you don't admit it, then it doesn't exist. And as far as why you have the blacks coming to UNC-Charlotte, it's because they can't get into UNC-Chapel Hill. Basically in this area, as long as you don't talk about it then it doesn't exist, as far as the economic rise, the reason that blacks are finally getting jobs and this is a good place for them to come, is because they have ran out of all the white people who want to have jobs, they've got them all employed, and now they have resorted to getting blacks, and most of them are coming in at the low end of the pay scale.

Holloway:
Okay, you've raised, and thank you for those comments. He's raised three issues there. Let's start with the last one I guess. Who wants to deal with those?

Watson:
Restate the last one.

Holloway:
Well, he dealt with the employment issues, that the reason why some of the blacks are being employed now is that they've already gone through the whites and I guess I'm summarizing that, and so now blacks are getting those jobs. He talked about the institution, the reason that this institution is growing is because they can't get into Chapel Hill, and the third point was that in Charlotte, blacks and whites, or if whites don't talk about it then it doesn't exist, because everything is fine.

Watson:
I'll tackle the first one. In fact, I was just at the unemployment office a few days ago looking to see. But when we report that we have 3% unemployment, or 4%, I don't know the exact number, but it may be 3 or 4%. When you take that number apart and look at it, it's actually about 10% among African-Americans, and about 1 or maybe 1/2% among the other population. So that number doesn't really say what you think it should say. But it does say that there is good potential for getting jobs in Charlotte, North Carolina, and a lot more African-Americans are getting jobs, and I think that's a good thing.

Holloway:
Lisa, what about this issue of if you don't talk about it then it's not a problem. Do you agree with the person in the audience?

Crawford:
No, just because you don't mention the problem doesn't mean it's there. I do disagree with him, I don't feel like either white people nor black people don't talk about it. I really think that everybody talks about it. I think that white people realize that there is still a problem. I think that black people are more willing to say that there is still a problem and that we need to address it. And I think that, for Charlotte to be what I call the "queen's roundtable," the leaders that be in Charlotte, who want Charlotte to be a world-class city, they recognize that a city is only as strong a it's weakest link, and that's everybody.

Holloway:
Chancellor, there was a direct comparison to UNC-Chapel Hill.

Woodard:
Well, he doesn't have his statistics right, okay? [CHUCKLES] Certainly UNC-Chapel Hill is a great institution and many students do choose to go to Chapel Hill. But I can assure you that UNC Charlotte is the institution of first choice for many, many African-American students who come here from throughout the state of North Carolina. And so many move into leadership roles and graduate and are very successful. I mean, we are immensely proud of these young people. And as far as not talking about the issue, there is at least one meeting a week with, certainly within our campus, but involving people within the community with which I am involved, that talk about this issue. And our goal is to make sure that every part of this community has the opportunity to participate in its success.

Holloway:
Thank you. We have another question to the other side of the auditorium at microphone 2. Go right ahead please sir. Jones: My name is Bob Jones, that's what my friends call me. I run a major insurance company, black owned and operated, Golden State Mutual Life Insurance Company. And I work also with Work First and other panels, or not panels, but organizations here working towards helping our individuals who would like to get back into the workforce. What my concern is, just like when I received the invite here, is that you are speaking in terms of a 1988 situation, and I am calling it a situation because this is 1998, and you are speaking in terms of race relations, and at the same time, when I call down to unemployment, for an example, for a person to work, they tell me, or what they send me are people who are basically interested in food services, because that's where I, predominantly where I see us. When I go to a car dealership or any other major place to eat at other than black-owned, I am served by a white, I am served by others. When I go to any facility where I feel that I have earned the right to go to also, I am served by a white. I take my car to Nissan, it is serviced by a white, and so I am just concerned as to where the data is coming from that helps us to bring this together, like the gentleman stated earlier, the people that should be here, where are they? The people who can bring about a change? Because we can talk forever. We've been doing that since slavery. That's my basic concern because this can go on, and what do we see?

Holloway:
Okay, good comment. Would you like to address that?

Watson:
Yes, I would. I know Bob, we used to have a contract with Mecklenberg county placing welfare mothers in permanent jobs for a bout three years, so I have a real good knowledge of what's happening. It just points up a problem. One of the things that I was sort of referring to: we need to do more training. We need to have a trade school. I understand that recently Bob Davis, that the trade school is going to happen, it's on the drawing board now. We need to do some more training, so that people can do jobs other than food service. And there is nothing wrong with food service, you can make a living doing that.

Holloway:
Tell Lisa.

Crawford:
Yeah, I was getting ready to talk back to you!

Watson:
Yeah I'm cleaning that up! [LAUGHTER] But the deal is that we need to have more diversity in our jobs that we are going after. So it's a real problem, and I know the kind of problem that he is having, Mr. Jones, because he needs a more technically capable person to work for him.

Holloway:
WE have another comment or question at the first microphone. Can we go to that comment now ma'am? Go right ahead please. Morris: My name is Barbara Morris, and I just want to say that I think your panel is a little off balance, and it goes back to having the right people here, or the people that should be here. Since Charlotte is such a growing city, and it's supposed to be so good for the blacks, how has Charlotte rated in awarding contracts to minority contractors, and how have they benefited in this growing city of Charlotte?

Holloway:
When you say that the panel is off-balance, what would you suggest? Morris: I think you should have some minority contractors on the panel. Charlotte is a growing, we see everyday going down the street where they are building, and you have no minority contractors, I mean, have they benefited from this growing city?

Holloway:
Okay, good comment and question. Who wants to address that?

Watson:
Well, again since that's my bailiwick, I would agree with the speaker that we have not benefited on the level that we should. If you want to compare it on the basis of population, or if you want to compare it on the basis of the 10% rule that was on the street sometime ago in terms of 10% of the contract dollars, we are not getting it. What we see is a slide toward white women, white women get 8 or 9%, MBEs of ethnic minorities get 2 and 3%. And we have to work on that problem, because there is no shortage of opportunities, there is no shortage of contracts to be had, we just aren't getting them.

Holloway:
That's one of the reasons that we are having the program, because we knew it wasn't the slam-dunk, just to say that it's the best thing. So we really wanted to have this discussion. Chancellor, you wanted to say something?

Woodard:
Well, most of the contracts, all of the government contracts are awarded on low price, and they are race-blind, they are gender-blind. What we've got to do is to help businesses that are basically still very early in their life, learn how to compete within the bureaucracy that we subject these companies to. Or else we really do have to put in place set-asides to help start up businesses. And again this city and county and state has never set aside any kind of percentage of...

Holloway:
That set-aside word is a word that I'm sure is a flag word for many.

Woodard:
Sure.

Holloway:
And I know many whites would probably not agree with that, that's probably why we don't have it now. We have another comment or question there on our second microphone. Go right ahead please, sir. Mohammed: Yes, I 'm minister Robert Mohammed, and I think Charlotte, for the last 15 years or so, has been preening herself, or positioning herself to be considered a mecca, or a place of opportunity and reward. I think it started back with Harvey Gantt as mayor, it facilitated further with Sue Myrick, people saw Charlotte as a liberal-minded, liberal-thinking city, and people began to flock to Charlotte. The problem is, in our discussion here this evening, is that while people flock to Charlotte, the people who were born and raised here, under paternalistic values, and the value system that did not see blacks as equals, and any time that blacks cried out they were pacified and satiated, those people have opportunity, yes, but there is no vision, or there is no scope of vision, for grasping opportunity.

Holloway:
So for the persons, the native Charlotteans? Mohammed: The native Charlotteans.

Holloway:
We only have a few minutes, about four minutes left here, let's talk about that, because I'm certain that with the growth that Charlotte has had, quite a few people have flocked here from the northeast, and that balance between local folks benefiting from that versus, you know, a north-south kind of battle too. Lisa, you haven't commented much on that. Are you a Charlottean?

Crawford:
Born and raised. Home grown. So, I mean, that's about all I can say. I saw Charlotte when there was no downtown, when there was nothing but, at 13 I knew I wanted a restaurant in downtown Charlotte, even though then there was no downtown Charlotte. And at 31 I have a restaurant in downtown Charlotte. The vision, I saw it. I was 31, didn't own a house, didn't have any real equity, but found someone that believed in me because I said-- "I am going to do it." I was persistent, I did what I had to do, and I found someone who believed in me to give me the money. And it wasn't a gift, I have to work for it. But I found it, and I think that's the one thing that we sometimes tend not to do is to go the extra mile. Keep going no matter how many times somebody tries to tell you no--don't accept no.

Holloway:
We only have a few more minutes here, let me go to this, we probably have time for one more question or comment. Sir, go right ahead, at the first microphone.

M:
Only a few years ago, Reverend Dr. Wyatt T. Walker, who was the chief of staff for Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. back in the 1960's made a very important statement. What he said in essence was that there has been very little fundamental change in the relationships between blacks and whites since the days of slavery. In essence, there was a master/slave relationship in the days of slavery, and there is still a master/slave relationship in 1998, I can support that with a lot of data. But the bottom line is that, I think that the whole issue as raised by Essence magazine is somewhat ludicrous. Because there is no good place in America for blacks. There may be some good places for Negroes and colored people, but there is no good place in America for blacks. 80% of the prison population is black. You have a public school system that does not even teach black history and culture, that's destroying black kids, even as I stand here this very moment, I could go on and on with a long litany of negative things, that is not to say that there are not some positives. And if you want to compare Charlotte with some other areas, surely you will find a number of positives. But I think it is ludicrous even to raise the question about any particular area in America being best for blacks. That's like saying it's better to be with Satan than to be with Lucifer.

Holloway:
Okay, thank you for your comment. We have just a minute left here, and I want to get some real brief concluding statement from each of you, and then we will finish.

Watson:
Well, I see a benefit in having a forum like this, because again, it gives us a chance to come back and rekindle our energies to do the work that we need to do. We have a lot of work that we need to do in Charlotte, and I think we can do it, I think we have the right leadership downtown and around town to help us do it. We just need to buckle down and get it done.

Holloway:
Lisa.

Crawford:
I think as an entrepreneur black or white, you just have to set your goals high, and again, just plan on achieving them, regardless of what barriers will come, just do it.

Holloway:
Chancellor, you have the last word.

Woodard:
This is a great city, it has made great progress, and all of our people have participated, perhaps not as much as we would like, but all have participated. And I would encourage black citizens from throughout North Carolina who want to come and join us to do so. It's a good place to live for all of us.

Holloway:
Well, I want to thank each of you for participating in our program tonight, I want to thank the studio audience. The time is completely out. Next week we are going to talk about the whole school desegregation situation in Charlotte, and we'd like to invite you to join us again next week. But also I'd like to remind you to continue watching Black Issue Forum and a discussion like this doesn't resolve all the issues, yes Charlotte is moving along very well for the state of North Carolina and throughout the country. But we see that just because the city moves up that everyone benefits. So we hope that you will look at the whole issue of the rising tide raising all ships differently and think about what you can do to engage yourself in race relations more just as a result of watching this program and hopefully you will. [MUSIC FADES IN] We invite you to visit our website, give us a call and comment on these issues, and join us again next week for part two. We will be back here in Charlotte talking about school desegregation next week on the campus of UNC-Charlotte. I'm Jay Holloway, thank you so very much for watching Black issues Forum, you have a blessed evening. Have a good night.