1998 - 1999 Broadcast Season
Broadcast Program Transcripts

Black Issues Forum #1425

Holloway:
We've heard about race relations all around our state, but tonight we'll hear about it from our youth. Next on Black Issues Forum.

[MUSIC]

Holloway:
Good evening and welcome to another edition of Black Issues Forum. Tonight this is part 2 of another town hall meeting on race relations in Durham, on the campus of North Carolina Central University. Tonight we're talking about youth and race relations, many issues that hopefully you'll be concerned about, whether you're a youth or not, all of us young at heart. Let's start off with our panelists first. Let me introduce to you, starting left to right, Brandon Arnold. Brandon is a senior at UNC-Chapel Hill. Brandon, thank you for being with us. Next is Christine Yoo, she's a Cambridge Christian Fellowship at Duke University. Thank you for being with us, Christine. Last but not least is our hostess for the evening and guest panelist, Angela Brown, a sophomore here at North Carolina Central University.

There are so many issues that we've talked about in race relations, and I know many of the criticism about these forums is that not only does it exclude some grassroots people but it's an academic discussion and many times it's from the older adult community. We're trying to change that tonight and hear from our youth, hear about some of the issues such as things you have on your campus that are not just unique to your campus here in the Durham area, but Affirmative Action, financial aid, self-segregation, these kinds of things. Let's talk about that. Christine, I want to start with you. Self-segregation, you and I talked about this off-microphone. What do you mean by that, and is that a problem on college campuses, particularly here in Durham or at Duke?

Yoo:
Well, yes, definitely. I gave a survey to people yesterday on the Duke campus about race relations, and I asked them "What do you think the root problem of race relations is?" And a lot of people said that they just feel more comfortable with their own race, which is completely understandable, and yet I feel that it takes a lot more, we need to get out of our comfort zones in order to break through race relations. It might be more comfortable to hang around with our own ethnic background people, but to really, really make an effort to cross that. And Duke itself if very self-segregated. Asian people hang out with Asian people, African-Americans with African-Americans, Hispanics with Hispanics, white people with white people. And that's the way it is right now.

Holloway:
Angela, you here at a historically black college, North Carolina Central University. I know that Central and Duke have done some things on this race initiative in the past. How do you feel about that, coming from an historically black institution? I know that there are white students here at NCCU. How do you feel about the issues she spoke of, self-segregation?

Brown:
I think it's real important like she said, because if your races just stick together you aren't going to learn how to deal with it in the real world when you go out and get a job and have to deal with other races.

Holloway:
How about you, Brandon. Chapel Hill, one of the largest campuses in our state. Same thing there?

Arnold:
Absolutely. Every time you walk on campus, you see races clustered together. I think it's almost ridiculous that a campus which is commonly referred to as so liberal that you would observe that. It really makes you think about how it's like in less liberal areas, less academic areas.

Holloway:
So what about your role? Now you are future leaders of America, and really, I don't want to say just 'future' but now. I mean, in the civil rights movement it was students your age... I still consider myself young. Dr. King was younger than I am now when he delivered the "I Have a Dream" speech. So the youth are really leading our country and now, but really cause the change. What do you as individuals see your role in improving these issues of race relations now? And I want to encourage you, we have a studio audience here, a campus audience here, to also come to the microphone and address some of these same concerns. Who would like to start off first? Your role as a leader in these race relations issues?

Brown:
Well, you commented earlier how Central and Duke interact with the other. I think that's good, because you can interact with different races and that's helping you out with the problems there.

Holloway:
How do we improve, though, if the students don't take the initiative to... or is it just one person to take the initiative to say, "Okay, maybe I enjoy being with my own culture, but I have to step out," as you said Brandon, out of your comfort zone. How do you inspire others to do that?

Arnold:
I think the problem is that it's too much of a forced effort. You see groups trying to forcefully merge together and it's a very difficult thing to overcome. I think if groups share a common goal, then instead of just the goal being integration, you have a third goal and integration just follows from that.

Holloway:
What about on NCCU's campus? Some of the other campuses we've been to, students have been concerned about the UNC system's goals of diversifying the campuses, encouraging more white students to come to the historically black institutions. There are statistics now where more black students in North Carolina are beginning to go to the traditionally white colleges or universities. How do students here feel in general who you've talked to about the diversification of the historically black colleges?

Brown:
Well I think that's like a legacy. If you go to a black school, it was founded for blacks so it's for blacks, whereas Duke was founded for white people and whites go there. But now you do need to interact with the other culture. So I think it's all right as long as black people stay in the majority, but you still get to feel and mingle with the different races.

Holloway:
Okay. We have our first comment or question from the audience. Sir, go right ahead please.

Male:
Yes, I believe that when it comes to an individual stepping out from their race and maybe associating with someone of another race, it takes a lot of confidence. And a lot of times we don't look at confidence and loving yourself as being an issue. But if you love yourself, and you're confident with who you are.... Well, if you have a friend, for instance, you make talk to them in class or in the halls, but not really in public, like in the yard or whatever. It takes confidence in knowing who you are in order to step out from amongst others such as yourself and say, "Well if I can talk to that person in class behind closed doors or whatever, why can't I associate with that person in public?"

Holloway:
So do you see that as a problem that many people have? A lack of that self-confidence?

Male:
Yes. Yes. And if you love yourself, and if you love your neighbor as yourself, then it really doesn't matter what others around you say, because you would treat them as you would yourself. And if you wouldn't have someone not speak to you because of race or whatever, that really becomes a big issue. But it has a lot to do with loving yourself.

Holloway:
Well let's talk about that whole self-confidence, self-esteem. Usually you learn that at home, your parents or your family. But where do you all think most people learn that from: from their school, their friends, their family? Where do you get this self-esteem and this self-love, and notions of how you feel about race, I guess? And he's saying, I think, which is a good point, you need to be confident first of all in who you are, before you can step out.

Yoo:
I agree. I think that if you're going to be a leader in anything, it's going to take coming out of your comfort zone and standing up and being self-confident. I would say a lot of the self-confidence definitely does come from families, but families don't always provide that. So it ends up coming from peers, or it ends up coming from your... the racial group you're hanging out with. To give an example, Asian people are not known for having too much leadership abilities, or having that much self-confidence in general. It's a stereotype, but it's also a self-fulfilling prophesy. People expect it so we kind of just step right into that role.

Holloway:
We have another comment or question at the microphone. Sir, go right ahead.

Male:
Thank you Mr. Holloway. My name is Abdul Knox, I'm a student at Shaw University. And I've noticed that since being at Shaw-- in high school and at middle school back home it was an all-white school. And I've noticed that at the all-white school, we stuck together, and it was support system in the black community amongst the black students. But when I got to Shaw, at this historically black college, it's just like every man for himself. That support system is gone. The minority does not stick together. And I have friends at North Carolina State and at Chapel Hill, and they have that same support system like we had there, and it's not like that at the black schools. I don't know how it is at Central, but at Shaw it's not like that.

Holloway:
Well thank you for coming over from Raleigh to share that comment. Would you like to address that comment, Angela?

Brown:
Well, the way I think of what he said, it's like your friends. If you have your friends... It's like he went to a predominantly white school, and they had to stick together because they were the minority. But here at Central they are the majority, so you have to find your own comfort zones and not just expect everyone to go out and get...

Holloway:
Do you think that the self-esteem issue plays a difference on whether you're at a historically black college or a traditionally white institution?

Brown:
I think in some ways it does, and in some ways it does not. Because it does come from within, and if you weren't confident at the first, you can't really expect to be somewhere else. But then again, if you are with your people, you can understand more about yourself and then gain that self-confidence that way.

Holloway:
Let me throw this out: Time magazine did a poll nationally and said 90% of college youth felt that racism was not an issue in America. Is this a fact, or is it not what you all... or is it misleading to you all? Who would like to address that? Brandon, you haven't said anything.

Arnold:
I think that it really depends on how you define racism. If you define it as hatred, I would say absolutely, it's very much gone. But it can be defined in a lot of ways. If you just define it as slight discrimination, then I think it exists. I think that division between races is definitely apparent, it definitely exists. I think what you see is the very fact that people break off into these groups. They have these, the self-segregation. Once you split people up into groups, there's going to be obvious biases between those groups, regardless if it's because of race or eye color or hair color, there's definitely going to be discrimination between groups.

Holloway:
And Christine, how would you define that, or do you agree with that? How would you define racism, and do you agree or disagree with these national facts?

Yoo:
Well I think that that's the general consensus. If I would do a survey on campus, people would tell me that they're not racist. I asked people that yesterday, and they would say they're not. But I guess they define it differently, like Brandon was saying. If I asked them, "Okay, do you have an prejudices against black people?" they'll say no. But if you ask them, "Would you let your child marry a black person?" they'd say no. So that is very, what do you call it, a paradoxical thing. You know?

Holloway:
Before I ask Angela the same question, our first panel in the Durham town hall meeting, the gentleman said that the Asian community was labeled a "model minority." Do you want to address that before we move on?

Yoo:
Sure. It just means that Asians don't really have socioeconomic problems. They don't really need Affirmative Action, they don't really have problem societally. That's what it means, but that's also that role that I was talking about. If we're labeled model minorities, it makes us just follow that path, it makes us just study or it makes us just pursue those careers that aren't controversial, and makes us not want to step out and be leaders.

Holloway:
Okay. Angela, I'm going to come back to you in just a second on racism definition. But let's go back to our audience here. Comment or question sir? Go right ahead.

Male:
Yes, we say racism is an issue, but I begin to think that it has a lot to do with respect. For if you respect someone as a person, then you should all be able to get along regardless of race for either color in this thing.

Holloway:
Okay, the respect issue again. You want to talk about the respect, or do you want to answer this racism definition first?

Brown:
I think I'll answer the racism. I agree with what he said, because people can say "I'm not racist, because I'm not a skinhead or something." But yet they still have prejudices against black people for slight things that they might not consider that racism, but it might be.

Holloway:
Okay. Brandon, what about whites in terms of sharing their views on racism? Do you think that most whites don't engage their views because they might feel they're racist?

Arnold:
I think there is a strong fear of very easy to say the wrong thing, and I guess that shouldn't be a problem if their beliefs are true, then you should never have a problem. But I think it's almost become a hypersensitive society, where it's too easy to offend somebody almost. So there's definitely, people kind of repress what are even good-natured opinions because of that.

Holloway:
Well we have another opinion or comment from the audience. Sir, go right ahead please.

Male:
My comment is in reference to racism and prejudice. Prejudice is where you dislike someone for something, it may be personal or in general of their society. In racism, it's more of an influence of power. I'll give you a prime example: within the UNC system, a big issue is within the equity of the funds allocated to historically black colleges and universities. Racism is a prime example in this area because you look at the facilities and educational materials, and look at even funding for the students to come to school, and you'll see a vast difference between the two universities in outcome, and even in test scores.

Holloway:
Okay, appreciate that distinction between racism and prejudice. Let's talk about Affirmative Action now. That's a hot topic that has been all across the country, it's here in North Carolina, it's in the UNC system that we're looking at. President Broad has asked the chancellors to take a look at this. How does that affect the students? Day to day, has there been discussions about this on your campuses? Affirmative Action? Brandon, you want...

Arnold:
I haven't seen many open discussions regarding Affirmative Action. I definitely think it's part of the consciousness of the students right now as whole. I think that unfortunately, it's always too much of part of our consciousness. I think it's really created tension, the fact that it's talked about more in the media. It really creates a lot of tension when you become aware of Affirmative Action, when you become... it almost fosters prejudice, I would say. The very thought that somebody might have gotten into the school that was less than qualified; I think it ends up separating the races more than unifying them.

Holloway:
So is this an issue that you personally agree with or disagree with?

Arnold:
Well I would not be in favor of Affirmative Action. I think there's a lot of reasons for that, but I definitely think it creates tension. I've heard of many people sitting in the classroom and they hate themselves for it, and it's a hard thing to deal with, but if a white student makes six, seven, just stupid comments, you don't think anything of it. But if a black person slips up once, they're graded on a higher standard because it's always in the back of that person's mind, maybe that person got in because of Affirmative Action and not because of merit. When generally that's not true at all. To grade someone on a different standard because of Affirmative Action is really working against the very principles on which it was created.

Holloway:
I appreciate you sharing those reasons and comments. We have some more comments. Ma'am, go right ahead, please.

Female Good evening. When I think of prejudice and racism, I also think of stereotypes, and I was wondering what the two from the predominantly white institutions are doing personally in their own lives, as well as to help their fellow students, overcome these stereotypes that are prevalent, and especially the fact that you are juniors and seniors and about to enter the workforce. What are you doing to eradicate the stereotypes within yourself and within your peers which probably are like yourselves.

Holloway:
Personal questions. You want to start off?

Yoo:
On a more general level, I think every individual is called to help out the society. So what I have been doing is just helping out with something called the Life Center which is in the Durham housing projects. It's a bunch of low income people, they make about $4,000 a year, single mother homes. There's places like that you can help out, and those kids who are doing really bad, who are flunking out, are now achieving. And there's another project I'm involved in right now is something called Hispanic Life Center or Hispanic Outreach, and it's pretty much just going into a Hispanic community and knocking on each door and asking what they need, and helping them on a long-term basis. That's the more general thing. I think more personally, I think I'm just trying to have more self-confidence and self-respect and respect for other people. Trying to be an example to other people on the campus... That's it.

Holloway:
Brandon, how about out?

Arnold:
As an individual, I'm a believer in contact as a means of resolving stereotypes. I believe that just meeting people of different races will quickly dispel any negative stereotypes. As part of a fraternity, I joined a fraternity that includes all the races. We have Asian brothers, black brothers, and we really work to keep that non-discriminatory aspect of our fraternity alive. Right now we're currently working with historically black fraternities on our campus, looking to have a function with them, just trying to keep as much contact as possible I think really helps out.

Holloway:
Okay. Let's go back to another question here or comment from the audience. Ma'am, go right ahead please.

Female Well, I have a comment, and it's basically touching on two of the issues that were discussed. One is diversity, and the second one would be Affirmative Action. I think that we here at NCCU welcome diversity, and what many people don't know is that most HBCU's in North Carolina are more diverse than most of the white institutions here in North Carolina, so we have the diversity already. And NCCU is number two from the top, if I'm not mistaken, for the most diverse campus. As well as Chapel Hill, they have a 50% drop-out rate for minorities. So we have to look at these issues, and yes we want to preserve our HBCU's, and we see that they're needed because they graduate most of the black professionals.

And my second comment is about Affirmative Action, and this is not to spite the panelist, but I wanted to say that he has... the comments that he made, he really doesn't know actually what Affirmative Action is because Affirmative Action is not saying that someone is less qualified and is allowed into an institution. It's just leveling the playing ground and allowing them to be able to even apply to the institution, whereas in the past we hadn't had that opportunity at all. So Affirmative Action is not saying that your black colleague is less qualified, it's just saying that they should have the same opportunity that you have. Thank you.

[APPLAUSE]

Holloway:
Thank you very much. Two very good comments. Okay, would anyone like to address those points? If not, we'll go back to another question or audience comment. Go ahead, sir.

Male:
My question was... my answer was also towards Affirmative Action. Affirmative Action is a way for the systems not to abuse anyone who would like to participate in them. For example, even in the workplace, Affirmative Action is for people who have the skills, who have the ability, but are not given even the opportunity to present themselves because of their race or their gender. Affirmative Action also allows people who are even more qualified to get into an institution or show their skills, or even get a building contract. They are more qualified to get a building contract but are not allowed to just because of their race, and Affirmative Action allows them to get in the door, not to necessarily get the contract.

Holloway:
Okay. Thank you very much for your comments. Angela, did we get you to... you didn't deal with the definition on racism did you? Oh you did, okay. What about the... I'm sorry, I just want to catch up. What about - I want to come back to you also about a comment of inferiority for historically black colleges, but I do want to go back to the audience again and I want you to address that. We have one more question or comment; this is probably our last comment or question from the audience.

Male:
The challenge of racism I feel, and having been recently challenged, to actually force yourself in that situation, nobody wants to be a racist, nobody will claim that they are racist. And often it's not until you are actually challenged into that situation, put into a situation where you have to make a decision that you see the evidence of stereotypes occurring. This recently occurred to me as a student at UNC, and it felt very different. I'm a transplant from California and this is not something that happens in California at this level. More importantly, I think as a person hoping to educate others, part of that issue is to force yourself to be a minority, to force yourself into that minority situation and you will understand the feelings associated with that. And for once, maybe just for a glimmer, you'll understand what it feels like to be a minority, truly a minority, and you'll better understand those around you. And I myself, having been transplanted into a very different area, am starting to feel that way and starting to recognize that in many of my friends. Thank you.

Holloway:
Thank you so much for your comment. Angela, let me ask you before we conclude, I want to get some concluding remarks from each of you, just a few minutes left here. How do you deal, or if you deal with comments from the perception of some that may feel that the historically black colleges are inferior to some other campuses. Have you ever had to deal with that comment or criticism before?

Brown:
The way I think of is like this: I go to Central, there's 6,000 students here. Whereas they go to the campuses that have a bunch more, like 30,000. I go to Central, my classes are smaller. I can have a better relationship with my teachers so I feel I am getting a better education because I am in close contact and I can just talk to them, whereas I might have to wait in line, the teacher might not have enough time for me as they would in this school.

Holloway:
Okay. Christine, any concluding comments you'd like to make about our discussion today? I know there's so much to talk about.

Yoo:
There's two solutions to racism: I don't know if it's going to be ultimate solutions, but one is the nation, the nation has to do stuff. The nation owes a debt to the people that they've oppressed in the past, and they have a responsibility to take care of the people who come and become US citizens, and just take care of them and make sure that they're getting an education and doing well. And a second solution I believe is with individuals. Individual people need to go out and do things on their own. They have to force themselves, they have to actually help out with their hands, I think.

Holloway:
Thank you, Christine. And Brandon, concluding comments from you.

Arnold:
Yeah, I'd like to agree with Christine that they really need to help out those people that don't have the same opportunity. In reference to this young woman's comment, I thought it was a good comment.

Holloway:
So did that cause you to change your view on Affirmative Action?

Arnold:
Not quite. I believe that if the government is going to help out with people, minorities, I really don't think that Affirmative Action in colleges is the way to do it. I think it's putting a band-aid on a much larger problem. I think addressing the K-12 education... If these students are getting the quality education in K-12, then there's really no need for Affirmative Action. If we level the playing field there, then there's no need for race-based admissions.

Holloway:
Well, and that's a whole another program and we thank you so much for each of your comments, and thank you to our studio audience for being here for our part 2 and final town hall meeting in Durham at North Carolina Central University. I'm happy to be here; I'm an alumnus of the graduate school here at North Carolina Central, so it's good to be back. And thank you for watching. We encourage you, youth or adults, to continue this dialogue. We can't resolve it all on the program, but we certainly hope you will think about these issues even more and have more dialogue with persons of other ethnic backgrounds. We continue with our final wrap-up next week on Black Issues Forum of town hall meetings. I'm Jay Holloway, thank you so much for viewing. You have a blessed evening and a good night.

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