1999 - 2000 Broadcast Season
Broadcast Program Transcripts
Episode #1504

Holloway: Is it possible that extensive flood damage caused by hurricane Floyd was due in part to human error? And now that the damage is done, what hope do victims have for finding and rebuilding a new place to live? On tonight's live edition of Black Issues Forum, we'll discuss these issues and take your calls. So stay tune, next.

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Holloway: And good evening everyone and welcome to tonight's live edition of Black Issues Forum. I am Jay Holloway, your host, and we're continuing our discussion about issues raised by the flood of the century, Hurricane Floyd. We're live tonight to take your questions and comments by telephone and the number to call is on your screen now. It's 1-800-555-3120. Now there has been a lot of talk that although Hurricane Floyd dropped a lot of rain, in fact, over 20 inches in some areas; it still doesn't add up to the epic damage that resulted in the eastern region. We have with us tonight Eric Tobert who is Director of Emergency Management with the North Carolina Department of Crime Control and Public Safety. Eric, we've had the opportunity to talk with a lot of Edgecomb County residents about this flood and many of the friends and neighbors say that the city officials opened the dams too early in Rocky Mount and other places. But I have on the line, first, Theresa Williams who, actually, I talked her about some other people in the area. Theresa, are you there on the phone?

Williams: I'm here.

Holloway: Okay Theresa, could you share with us-First of all, we've been talking with you and following your efforts. I understand recently now you have gotten into some new housing just since the flood, is that true?

Williams: Yeah, that's true.

Holloway: Okay, we're having trouble hearing you in here for our studio guests, if we could get that monitor up. Go right ahead, Theresa.

Williams: Yes, I have moved into one of the travel trailers that they have in Rocky Mount, in what they call FEMA-ville.

Holloway: Okay, we hear you, I'm sorry, our studio guest couldn't hear you. Thank you. Could you repeat that again, please, Theresa?

Williams: Yes, I have one of the travel trailers over in Rocky Mount in what they call now FEMA-ville. That's where everybody is living at that have lost their homes in Princeville. That's one of the neighborhoods that I'm trying to get from over there.

Holloway: Well, congratulations at least from moving in there, because you were in a home with your sister and other relatives about 30 people so I imagine at least that's a welcome move isn't it?

Williams: Well, not really, because it's like more stress added on top of stress.

Holloway: Okay, we're going to come back to you. Let me go to Eric right quick. Eric, I heard from people down there as I was just alluding to earlier, that people are concerned that the dams were released too early and maybe too much water on top of the rain particularly in Rocky Mount. Is that true?

Tobert: Well, we heard those reports early on as well. There's only one impoundment on the Tar River that had any effect on this disaster and that impoundment is actually very small in comparison to the volume of water that came down. With 18-20 inches of rain, we checked with the National Weather Service and with the Corps of Engineers and that dam release had absolutely no effect on the level of water that came down the Tar River.

Holloway: Now, on the other hand, the dam in Wake County from the Falls Lake going down to the Goldsboro area, what about that?

Tobert: The Falls Lake Dam certainly can have some effect, but the Corps of Engineers has done a magnificent job over the years of monitoring that and adjusting the flow rate out in advance of the storm to ensure that it doesn't exacerbate localized flooding.

Holloway: Let me remind our callers and viewers that you can call in, the number will be on your screen shortly, but we'll talk more about this issue; but first, I'd like to introduce another guest, Dr. Jim Johnson, James Johnson, I know him as Jim, who is director of the Urban Investment Strategy Center at UNC. Dr. Johnson has some creative advice on ways in which businesses can come together, businesses, non-profits, and churches really, to overcome the damage done by Hurricane Floyd. Jim, what is the key to rebuilding eastern North Carolina communities, do you think?

Johnson: Jay, I think that first and foremost it is important to draw a distinction between the current efforts of disaster relief and the second part is a need for a blueprint for rejuvenating the region. I think most of the emphasis thus far has been dealing with the immediate crisis at hand. The challenge is how do we develop a blueprint for revitalizing eastern North Carolina, a region that was already in economic distress prior to this catastrophic disaster, how do we develop a blueprint that will make that region competitive in the 21^st century marketplace. I don't think we can rely solely on government, state and/or federal, to solve that problem, but I think we need to think about innovative ways, win-win propositions where we get all of our community stake-holders involved to make that region competitive in the 21^st century.

Holloway: Let me go back to Theresa. Theresa, what would you have preferred other than the situation that you're in right now in terms of moving into the temporary housing or the trailer?

Williams: Well, the travel trailer is fine, it's just where it's at. That's the main problem. Where it's located and the surrounding people, because of all the crime and everything that's going on out there. I would prefer if they had, like most of Tarboro people that live in Tarboro, put them in Tarboro instead of way out there in Rocky Mount. That's my preference.

Holloway: Eric, you were aware about this coming through, do you have any response to that?

Tobert: Well, the travel trailers, we're actually managing that operation. Our personnel are out there trying to ensure that it's a safe environment. Actually we've got about 600 children out there and it's creating new challenges for us, trying to develop recreational activities and we're hoping in the next week or two to get some basketball courts constructed out there to provide at least some recreation for them. It's not the best situation, it's about the best that we can do. You can imagine the logistics involved. Now, two months ago, that site was a commercial development. We had to go in and literally construct it from the ground up with the streets and water and sewer and purchase all of the units that have been brought in there and hook them up. So under the circumstances, it's the best that we could do. It's temporary housing, it's only intended to last for hopefully not over 18 months, until people have the opportunity to rebuild their homes. We're also in the process of developing several other travel trailer and mobile home sites within the area.

Holloway: We're here to take your calls. The number's on your screen, 1-800-555-3120. It sounded like Theresa though, is concerned that maybe you all didn't look into Tarboro which she's got to travel 20 minutes or so to get back to her home area.

Tobert: We've had a lot of problems down there, constructing, because of the soil content. There is a topsoil that is very difficult to build on. We do have, now, a larger manufactured home site being constructed in Tarboro, but at the time, you have to look for available land that has the water and sewer and that you can get a lease on. This one is controlled by the county and it was the best available at the time and it continues to be the best available site.

Holloway: Jim, let me ask you, we're talking to a statewide audience and people are probably wondering why are we continuing to talk about this flood effort? It happened months ago now and people are still talking about it, but it has statewide impact and it will be impacting not only the people in eastern North Carolina but the state for years to come, probably. I want you to think about that. I want you to address it, but we've got a caller here now from Orange County. Orange County go right ahead with your comment or question please.

F: Good evening Jay, I just wanted to ask the gentleman to your right about the Corps of Engineers. The Runis River dam system is north of the Tar River and some of the tributaries feed into that river. Now has anyone investigated whether the dams were let loose or not let loose early enough to avoid some of that serious flooding, because they didn't experience a great deal of flooding on the Runis River or in the Lake Gaston area and that's a much larger water system than the Tar River?

Holloway: Good question. Eric, can you address that please?

Tobert: I'm certainly not a hydrologist and I haven't looked at all of the upstream dam systems, but I can tell you that the concentration of heavy rainfall where we experience the 18-20 inches of rain are centered right around the worst areas of impact. So it really wasn't an upstream situation as it relates to Tarboro, Rocky Mount, down into Princeville, that was actually where the localized 18-20 inches of rain was. So I don't know that those stream systems and reservoirs up in Virginia would have had any impact at all on this particular event.

Holloway: Theresa, let me ask you, one of the things I heard you and others in that area mention was that you also were concerned about how you were notified about this effort. How were you notified and can you describe to our audience?

Williams: We was notified by neighbors. We had been called earlier that night and they had come to let us know. They had called, a friend of ours called and told us; but when we called the emergency center to find out whether we were going to have to be evacuated or not, they had no idea that we were. They said we wasn't. So about 2:00 in the morning, one of the neighbors came by to let us know that we had to be evacuated and that was how we were finding out. They didn't have, like, emergency whistles blowing off or anything. They were just telling us. A neighbor came to tell us.

Holloway: Now, Eric, whose responsibility is that, the local municipality or how does that go?

Tobert: Well, typically, a flood warning, a flood watch or flood warning is issued by the National Weather Service and that is-the best available means to receive that warning is through the media, the television and radio networks around the state broadcast that warning to give people the best available information. The next best available situation is to have a National Weather Service radio that actually alerts you to the situation. Across North Carolina and across the country, we really haven't maintained these outdoor warning systems and it's rare to even have one in North Carolina. Very few exceptions where we have that, so that type of system doesn't exist. I guess the Chicken Little method is the best available right now in North Carolina, other than what you can get through the media.

Holloway: Jim, lets go back to the point about talking to our statewide audience out there. Why should they still be concerned about this, and get into some of your creative strategies about rebuilding efforts.

Johnson: Well, I think the most important thing that we as a state must realize is that our competitiveness and attractiveness as a state in intricately related to our ability to rebuild eastern North Carolina. So all the communities west of I-95, it is, although you may not feel the impact, economically, I think socially and politically, and certainly in terms of luring other businesses and foreign direct investment to our state, it becomes a form of enlightened self-interest for us to rebuild eastern North Carolina. It's just, first of all, the right thing to do, socially and morally; but economically it is imperative. Many of the companies west of I-95 have investments in the region, so it becomes a form of enlightened self-interest for them to want to be actively involved in rebuilding, and rebuilding quickly, not letting this thing drag on for time immemorial. We need to be more involved; but at the same time, I think when we move away from relief, dealing with the immediate crisis to the notion of rebuilding, then you have to bring together all of the community stake-holders and it has to be a form of enlightened self-interest for everybody to be at the table. That's why I think engaging socially responsible businesses in the rebuilding process, linking with church organizations and other kinds of associations where you can leverage the power of numbers with those businesses in such a way that they are willing in exchange for businesses to donate resources to the rebuilding effort, engaging in a relationship with a grocery store chain that in exchange for business, they are prepared to give a rebate that goes into a charitable organization that rebuilds that community. Dealing with insurance companies that want to tap market share and in exchange for that market share they are willing to donate a certain percent of their profits to the rebuilding effort. Leveraging the power of the public sector through purchasing groups and the like. Not only do you get a better return on your purchasing but you also then get those companies to donate revenues to the rebuilding effort.

Holloway: That certainly is a creative way that people can participate. Now I'd like to hear from some folks around the state to see if, indeed, you are still concerned as to why people are still talking about this issue and people are still concerned. Call in and let us know. Also we have another caller now from Edgecomb County. Theresa I know you're still there, but here's another call from Edgecomb County. Go right ahead, please with your question or comment. Are you there Edgecomb County? Hello? Okay, we'll go back to Theresa. Theresa, are you still there?

Williams: Yes.

Holloway: Let me ask you, I understand just this past week there was a town meeting there in Princeville?

Williams: Correct.

Holloway: The question was about rebuilding and this whole buyout program. Did you attend that and what's the talk about that in Edgecomb County?

Williams: Yes, I attended the meeting and the meeting was concerning people that want to buyout. They want to sell their land and property and everything. They really broke it down to how long it was going to take to end this process and everything like that, how much they were going to get paid, and about people who have paid off their homes and have nothing else, elderly because mostly that's what were there, elderly, people on SSI or low-paying jobs and they were talking about how were they going to last? How are the elderly going to make it on Social Security, restarting from the bottom up? That's mainly what it was about, the buyout program.

Holloway: Well, that's an issue. Do either of you gentlemen have any comments on that?

Tobert: That's the greatest concern that we have. We've got a substantial number of elderly people on fixed income and from our perspective, the federal programs, really the traditional federal emergency management agency programs are not designed to help people fully recover, they're to provide very minimal repairs on homes and they provide rental assistance and really the only way through the traditional federal programs that people are going to recover is through a small business administration loan. That's really it when you look at all of the maximum grants that can be provided, it's only $23,600 and that's really not enough to even begin rebuilding . . .

Holloway: That's at one time?

Tobert: That's a one time deal and that's the maximum, that's assuming that you lost everything and that all the conditions and factors are right. So from our perspective, about the only way, under these traditional programs, to recover is to offer an acquisition; and the public benefit is that we remove that property from the hazard area and we avoid repetitive loss, we avoid this again occurring again to those same families. Unfortunately, in eastern North Carolina, we have a lot of families that have been victimized repeatedly. It's almost becoming an annual event, so the quicker we can do this, and the more completely we can do this, the better off we're all going to be.

Holloway: I'd like to hear from some business owners, church people, or civic groups to respond to Dr. Johnson's creative suggestions. We're going to try the Edgecomb County caller again, caller are you there? If you are go right ahead with your comment or question please.

Jones: Yes, I am Herman Jones.

Holloway: Okay.

Jones: I was born and raised in Princeville. My comment is to the gentleman who said that they would only get the $23,000 as a minimum to build a home.

Holloway: Maximum.

Jones: The maximum was $23,000. When you're looking at people who had lost everything that they owned and had and people who had worked hard and paid for their homes, and Princeton had never flooded the way that it did, that I know, in about 50 years, before the dam was even built. It's really hard to hear this man's comment that the aid, there is nothing they could do, just sell out and move out. Those people have lived there for 75, 80 years.

Holloway: You raise a good point. Do you have a specific question or is that your comment Mr. Jones?

Jones: My question is-see, I lost my mother.

Holloway: I'm sorry to hear that.

Jones: And she had lived in Princeville all her life.

Holloway: You know, this is a real emotional time.

Jones: This is an emotional thing. I did have a question but I'll just leave the board open for someone else who lives in Princeville.

Holloway: Thank you for you question.

Johnson: Jay, I think this is a classic example of a cause. We talk a lot about the large number of senior citizens in the region and in the community for whom this buyout may not be the most viable thing economically. This is a cause that we ought to have church associations, other kinds of organizations in the community to rally behind. The other thing I think with this rebuilding is that we ought to be engaging the Department of Corrections and the large number of people who are connected with the criminal justice system. We ought to be connecting them with skilled construction trade training and then to use that talent pool to rebuild eastern North Carolina. It strikes me that the outcome of that kind of initiative is two-fold. One you get the community rebuilt, but also you prepare a group of individuals who will eventually be returning to the community with a set of skills that make them employable. So we have to being to thing innovatively here about all of the assets that we have in our community and bring them to bear on this situation. If we continue to focus solely on what the state and the federal governments are going to do, we're going to continue to have increasing levels of frustration because this disaster is of such a magnitude that it's going to require much more than those efforts; and I think that this is a classic example of how you can rally behind senior citizens and do something for them that is going to make their lives much better.

Tobert: You know you're exactly right on the use of inmates. We're starting a pilot project next month. We've committed in Kenston to construct from the ground up ten homes. The way we're doing that is that Home Depot, as one corporate example has donated in excess of $100,000 in materials and tools and what we're doing is using four prison institutions across the state to actually do the pre-fabrication of walls. We later can be looking at roofs and the roof trusses and the floor joists and actually the cabinets. So we're doing everything that we can to try to get innovative and utilize leverage, the product donations and the available labor pool that we have.

Holloway: We have another caller. I'm not sure where you're calling from, but caller, go right ahead with your comment of question, please.

Buckwhite: Good evening gentlemen. My name is George Buckwhite. I'm from Martin County, North Carolina, one of Edgecomb County's neighbors. I'm enjoying the discussion this evening and my comment is that I would expect our community as a black community across the nation to respond to this crisis in a more detailed way, because we have to stop sitting back and waiting for others to respond to us and rebuild this community ourselves if we're sincere.

Holloway: Caller, did you hear Jim Johnson's suggestions about churches and other civic organizations and even other businesses earlier when he talked about a creative way that people can help support that? Is that something that you think could work because not only blacks across the country can do that but here in this state, and all people can, really?

Buckwhite: Exactly. That's my sentiment exactly. I came in about half-way through the program but I'm glad I got in because that's been my feeling, even before the crisis came up. We as blacks should begin to design a future for ourselves, rather than sitting back and waiting.

Holloway: Okay, and thank you so much for your comment.

Johnson: And I think it's important that we design a future that reflects where the growth opportunities in our economy are going to be and that we begin to think about places like Princeville with all of its rich history as maybe in the rebuilding process, considering it as a site for heritage tourism and things of that nature. I think we just have to think more innovatively and bring to bear the collective resources of our community, locally, statewide, and nationally as the caller indicated.

Holloway: Jim, this might be a little controversial, but we talked about this prior on this program. The public perception that you see in the media is a disproportionate amount of blacks being effected by this as victims, but also a disproportionate amount of whites volunteering there to help out. Maybe that was the root of this call: not seeing physically a lot of blacks visually doing a lot of things to help.

Johnson: Well, I thing people respond and contribute to disaster situations in different ways. We don't know how many African-Americans have actually contributed financially to the relief efforts. I know personally of churches all over the country that have sent truckloads of linen and other kinds of things.

Holloway: Black churches?

Johnson: Black churches from DC and places up north that have materials that have sent busloads of people to help. I think, like any other-This disaster is so widespread, you had black people going to different counties and different communities who have embraced various communities. So I think what's important to realize is that in disasters, the best and the worst comes out. I wish we could under normal circumstances, have as many people come together and rally behind causes that we have in disaster situations. I'm not so worried about who's doing it. I think if we could take and apply those rules to society in general, we'd be a much better society.

Holloway: We have just less than a couple of minutes. Theresa, are you still there? Could you give me some quick closing comments, we have less than a minute in the program?

Williams: I do agree with him very much, because that would help a lot if everybody would just work together instead of having this disagreement here and just getting together and working together; but to each and every person that is listening, I would like to encourage you to hold your heads up high, keep the faith, and just trust in God, He's going to make a way for you.

Holloway: Quick comments, less than 30 seconds.

Tobert: Well, we've got a long road ahead of us. We still have the Federal Emergency Management and its great employees. I know that FEMA has taken a lot of criticism, but I'll tell you I've seen those folks working around the clock, seven days a week and they're in here really trying to help out. I've seen state employees continuing to work. I've seen volunteers. I was in the field today and saw churches from as far away as Morgantown in helping throughout this week, helping people rebuild. It's going to take all North Carolinians to pull together and help bring about recovery of eastern North Carolina.

Holloway: And our politicians are probably going to be in shortly, too. That's really all the time we have for tonight, I'd like to thank all of our guests here in the studio, our callers, and Theresa as well. I hope that we were able to provide some meaningful answers to questions you may have as we continue down the road to recovery from Hurricane Floyd. As we close, we'll have some important numbers that you can call and learn more information on offering or obtaining assistance regarding Hurricane Floyd. Please join us again next Friday night at 11:00 p.m. on UNC-TV as we continue with more live talk and your calls, recovering from disaster in our state. For all the Black Issues Forum crew, the late night crew here, you have a blessed evening and a good night.

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