1999 - 2000 Broadcast Season
Broadcast Program Transcripts
Episode #1507
12/3/99

Holloway: In the debate to save the city or sell it out, the choice to rebuild Princeville wins out. So where does this historic town go from here? We'll hear from the town mayor, North Carolina NAACP, and FEMA. And we want to hear from you. Join us for the next half hour for a lively discussion. We will be taking your calls and talk with you and our guests. So don't go away. Black Issues Forum is next. [THEME MUSIC]

Good evening, once again and welcome to another live edition of Black Issues Forum. Tonight, we will talk about the rebuilding of Princeville, the oldest US town chartered by African Americans in our country. Out telephone lines are wide open to receive you comments or questions, and you can call toll free at the number on your screen now. It is 1-800-555-3120. Tonight's guests are Mayor Delia Perkins, the Mayor of Princeville. Thank you so much for being with us. Also, Reverend George or GI Allison, executive director of the North Carolina NAACP. Reverend Allison, thank you for being with us. And also, public affairs officer with the Federal Emergency Management Agency, Kenneth Higgenbothum. You are better known as FEMA. A lot of people may not know what that FEMA stands for. Thank you all for being with us tonight. The numbers are open for you to call in as well. And people are already calling in, I understand. Mayor, let me start off this right away. Your town choose to rebuild the dike as opposed to accepting the buy-outs. Explain why you did that and what that means.

Perkins: It means that we keep our history alive had we allowed FEMA buy-outs, that means that our tax base would have ruined. We wouldn't have any control over what lands would be sold, so we could have wound up with a lot of open space and not enough people to keep the town viable. Rebuilding the dike meant that we could keep our town together. However, we can move some people out of harm's way right close to that dike. So, it is a matter of keeping your history alive, and that is what we want to do.

Holloway: Well, speaking of live and alive, let's go to a live caller now from Sampson County. I understand you have a question for out FEMA guest. Go right ahead, Sampson County.

Caller 1: I happen to be on total disability. And, when Floyd came through, it washed out my driveway, which of course is private land. Now, I went to the county and I went to the state. I went to the city. And I was turned down for anybody to be help me. I also have an eleven year old child that was out of school for almost two weeks, because I couldn't get out. Now, I called the Governor's emergency line and nobody could help me. I applied to FEMA and I was turned down.

Holloway: So you are looking for help now. And you want to know where you get help. Is that it?

Caller : All I wanted was dirt to fill in the holes, because it is a dirt road.

Holloway: That sounds like a state, federal, local?

Caller : No. It is a private road. I have a right of way which is a quarter of a mile to my land. And the problem was that the road washed out on my driveway.

Holloway: And now you want to know how to get help now. Is that right?

Caller : Well, I tried FEMA. I was turned down all the way around with the grants and the loans and everything else. Now what I would like to find out is why was I turned down, I mean there are a lot of people out there like myself that are on disability or are retired that don't have money.

Holloway: Let's try to get our FEMA representative first. Has she given you enough information to know why she was turned down?

Higginbothum: Well, her concern is very common. We get quite a few calls like that. What happens is that this is more, again, of a local issue. However, we encourage you to still call FEMA. If you were impacted by this storm and you lived in the designated county, call again. I can't encourage that enough. Call the toll free registration number. That is 1-800-462-9029.

Holloway: And we will put that number up again at the end of the program.

Higginbothum: If in fact you were turned down, you still may appeal that. There are a lot of people that think that once they are tuned down that is the end of the road. That is not necessarily the case. They need to call. They need to appeal that decision to be rejected or turned down for funds because there may be something that was not taken care of initially.

Holloway: Well, let me just say that we know that a lot of people have been impacted by this. The numbers will be at the end of the program so you can call. And I want to also talk about the statewide impact of this. Some of you may unfortunately may be thinking, "Why are we still talking about this?" Well, it is an issues that is probably not going to go away for a long time. I want to bring in our executive director of the NAACP to talk about your observation of a statewide impact and a viewpoint. The NAACP is involved with this issue and how have you noticed that it is still an issue that is impacting us statewide.

Allison: The NAACP has been involved in this issue in many ways. One of the things that we have done. Well, the first thing that we did, as a matter of fact, was during our convention, during when we were in Charlotte, September 30th - October 2^nd, we made a commitment to begin collecting specific goods that that we knew that they would need most urgently. We set up about ten sites across the state to collect those goods in various areas. We not only delivered to Princeville, Tarboro, we also delivered to Goldsboro and some other areas as well. With that being said, also we are looking at the fact that this is going to be a long term goal for the residents of the flood impacted areas, throughout the entire eastern portion of our state. It is going to be at least three to five years before many of them can completely recover and some will never recover and some will never completely recover, because some of the things that were lost were memorabilia that you cannot replace.

Holloway: Let me ask the mayor. You have visited North Dakota, I think, and some other places. What have you learned about, you pretty much concur that it is going to be a very long term recovery effort. And what have you learned about that?

Perkins: Yes, it will take some time to recover. When I was in North Dakota, I found out that there flood was devastating but they had resources available to them that we have not been able to receive yet, because they have money that came from HUD, and those moneys came fast. Right now in our area, those moneys have not come yet, and they are much needed to help us start to rebuild and process.

Holloway: We want to talk about that, because it seems to be big gap between what the public expects to get from FEMA, the state or local government versus what the reality is. But let's go to another question from Cumberland County now.

Mohammed: Greetings, good evening. This is ______Mohammed from Cumberland County. And my question and comment is to the great lady from Princeville, where they made tremendous strides to recover. We have many concerns here in terms of how we can really help Princeville, and we have had different groups to come to Princeville. One of the things that I am pushing with my friends that ____ Savings and Loan Association to do is work with us to get the city of Fayetteville in Cumberland County to adopt Princeville as our sister city, our sister town. And next Saturday, we wanted to invite the mayor of Princeville to come to stay at the state university. About one o'clock that afternoon, where we have a large gathering of graduates and member so the alumni. And we would like to discuss adopting Princeville.

Holloway: All right. Okay, sir. Is that your comment? Well, thank you so much for you call. I would imagine that you are getting a lot of assistance from around the country and around the state. And I know that the town of Cary has also adopted, I guess you all have accepted that adoption.

Perkins: Oh, sure we have. Cary was very instrumental at the beginning in helping us get back on our feet and get started again. And we also get quite a bit of help from a lot of other people and we appreciate it a lot. And we will appreciate it if Fayetteville will adopt us too. That will mean that the more people, the better.

Holloway: Give them the number there at the mayor's office, if they want to follow up with that.

Perkins: The number at the mayor's office is (252) 823-1057. We have a public relations person that will look at my schedule and can tell whether I am available at that time.

Holloway: And for those of you who missed that number or would like to have some donations given to the town of Princeville, I think there is also a special fund set-up at Centura Bank. Do you want to mention that now?

Perkins: Yes, we have the Princeville Hurricane Relief Fund that is set up through Centura bank, Post Office Box 560, Tarboro, 27886. And that will go straight the citizens in Princeville.

Holloway: And we just want to remind out viewers, stay tuned until the end of the program and we will give you a number where you can contact us and we can give you that information, also, later on. We have another caller, now, I believe, that we want to take. Cumberland County again. This is a different one, I hope. Go right ahead,

Caller: Yes sir, thank you. I realize my question is going to be hard, but, how to put this. I realize the history of Princeville and the surrounding area, but how many times are we going to have to rebuild. FEMA is not a bottomless pit. I am talking as a tax payer. We know that this is going to happen again an again and again.

Holloway: Okay. Good question. Who wants to handle that first. Mary you want to try that first?

Perkins: Yes. This is the first time that Princeville has been flooded, and I think that we have the opportunity to stay and continue with our heritage. I don't think I heard people condoling the beaches whenever you hear that hurricanes have come by, and they blow them away, and they go back and rebuild again. I don't hear people condoning other places when they have been flooded, blown away, and they go back and rebuild them again. And I am a taxpayer, the citizens of Princeville are taxpayers, and we have been paying for rebuilding for a long time. So, now it is our turn, and we are planning to stay. And it is God's will if it comes back again.

Allison: I would also like to say that I think this is, I have heard somewhere along the way that this is the first time in about three hundred years that there has been a flood in that particular area. And I think that is a five hundred year flood plan area. So, I don't think that we would anticipate that same thing happening in the very near future anyway.

Higginbothum: Well, you know that there is some what of a misnomer, throwing in the number five hundred year flood. And you are right. That area is still in the highly volatile area, as the mayor knows. It doesn't mean that it is not going to happen for another five hundred years. What we are trying to do is try and get people to understand one, what their options are, and with those options, how they can make it happen and make it work to their advantage. And help them get on the road to recovery. There is always a great concern as to how these people can get back up on to their feet and be able to get their lives back in order.

Holloway: Let me ask Reverend Allison, do you think that there is "environmental racism" in this issue? The town was located, by choice, by freed slaves a hundred years ago, next to this flood prone area. But are there any issues related to that, and I don't know if the callers implications was that, and I am not suggesting that, but the majority of Princeville is black, the majority of residents in the outer banks are white. So, it could be. Do you want to comment on that?

Allison: That is one of the things that the NAACP has been watching to make sure that there is hopefully not any environmental racism involved in this. However, we do understand that it was located there without probably even giving thought to the fact that a flood was going to occur. By the same token, you can look right over in Goldsboro, you have areas there that are the same way. Where not only the residents right along the riverbanks where it is flooded, but they are also in the process of this very moment of building a shopping mall on that same riverbank. So we see that this is happening statewide and even nationwide. For whatever reason. Riverbank property is values property. People love to live in those areas.

Holloway: When newly freed blacks founded the town, soon after the civil war, they settled on the south side of the Tar River, exactly because it was in a flood plain, no one else wanted to live in the swampy land. Many of the two thousand or so current residents are descendants from those brave people. So, would you say that that is another reason why people want to continue? You said it earlier, heritage and history.

Perkins: Yes, well, 114 years ago, I don't think there is anybody here today that could look back and know what was in those minds when they were freed from slavery and came across the River Bridge and found a place of their own that they could settle and incorporate and call it home. So, in hindsight, a lot of people might be looking at what they think might have happened, but they don't know. And for 114 year, Princeville has been an incorporated city, I think that for another 114 years or more, it will still be. And if the floods come, it will be God's will. It will not be man's will unless he starts it. So, Princeville will be there. We won't go anywhere.

Holloway: I promise we are going to get back to this gap again here, about what people expect versus what the reality is. We have another caller from Hartford County. Yes, comment or question.

Riddey: Yes. My name is Anne Riddey, and I live in Hertford County ___________. And my question was, has Princeville been registered with Preservations North Carolina or with the National Historic Registry, since it has such a historical significance to the African Americans in the area? There may be some grant money out there to help restore it and make Princeville a viable community and a tourist attraction, there again with a historical significance.

Holloway: Mayor, would you like to address that?

Perkins: Yes. Just before the flood, we were in the process of getting our Town Hall on the Historical Register. We had already had the preliminary reports in. The Town Hall is a Rosenwald School. The cemetery was already being worked on. The cemetery is where Turner Prince, one of the founders, was buried. We have Mt. Zion Church that was established in 1905, that is one of our historical sites. So, we were moving toward tourism. Just before the flood, the national park service had been down and brought the final maps for a walking trail right beside the dike, so we were moving in that direction, and the flood sort of put us on hold, but we are going right back to that plan to get fully registered.

Holloway: Let's go back to this gap between what people expect from FEMA versus what the reality is.

Higginbothum: You know, that is a very good question, and that is why we want your viewers to understand the process of getting federal assistance. The declaration happens again when an incident occurs, such as this, particularly of this magnitude. The governor of the state goes out with his team of assessors and his professionals under the state officer of emergency services. Along with Federal Assistance. And they go out and go what we call a PDA or preliminary damage assessment. When it goes beyond that scope of being able to assist the state, the people take care of themselves, the governor goes in and requests a federal declaration to the President.

Holloway: Let me do this. I want to kind of move you along kind of quickly because we have several callers on hold. One of the things you said to me off mike earlier was we are not here to make them whole again. I guess I wan t to just jump right to that point. That might be the expectation.

Higginbothum: Right. We are not here to make people pre-disaster condition again. We are here to help them to the road to recovery. Many of these programs are state administered. And local government. But we are here to help the people on the road to recovery, get them back on their feet, and try, you know a lot of times we say that we are here to help people help themselves. That is the bottom lime.

Holloway: So, it is not going to be a hundred percent, but it will be a percentage based on you own individual situation. Let's go to Duplin County right now. We are going to take a couple of calls real quickly so we can get your calls and questions in. Duplin County come right in, please.

Caller: Real quickly, what FEMA says and what FEMA does are two different things. There are a lot of people who are afraid who do not have the intelligence to go forward with their rights and their ability and whenever the President of the US declares a disaster, the people who are involved in those disasters do not have the ability to understand what are they worth.

Holloway: Do you have a question or comment, sir? We have a lot of callers on the line.

Caller: Well, the main thing, sir, is this. If you do not know your rights, just like Princeville. First of, still saying we are going to rebuild and we are going to do this and do that. They are saying let's buy out. I am so proud of the people who held out and said, "No. We are going to keep it going, keep it going on. And we are going to make this thing go from 100 years ago.

Holloway: Thank you so much for you call, sir. Let's go to our next caller from Durham. Durham County, go right ahead with your comment or question.

Walker: Hi, my name is Evette Walker, and I am calling in response to an earlier caller's response as to how many times we will be expected to rebuild. And I would like to just reiterate the mayor's response that, and it seems to be, I think, a racist comment. The panelist seemed to be somewhat hesitant to identify it as a racist comment, but I think it was quite evident of the white racist superiority complex that exists in our society, and that the coastal area has been rebuilt several times and continues to be rebuilt, mainly for people's recreational purposes or enjoyment purposes, and that seems to be okay. They seem to be overlooking the fact that the Princeville residents are taxpayers and that they are owed the opportunity to continue to exist as a historical African American town and that really seems to be an issue for people who have a concern about their area being rebuilt, if they don't have a concern about areas in general being rebuilt. But specifically about Princeville being rebuilt, and I think that needs to be identified, because one of the problems that continues to exist in this society is that we skirt around these issues of racism and don't call them as they are and as they exist and therefore we don't seem to be able to get past these hurdles.

Holloway: All right. Thank you so much for your call. Reverend Allison, do you want to address that again? Do you want to add anything to that? We talked about that earlier.

Allison: We had talked about that earlier, and as a matter of fact, I had mentioned earlier the fact that there have been many storms that have hit almost on an annual basis on the eastern coast, so why wouldn't we do the same thing for the people who live in Princeville. These are residents that live there. They are not there for a season, they are there year round. That is their home. So naturally, it should be rebuilt. And by the same token, it may appear to some that there is environmental racism involved, like I said before, that is one of the things that the NAACP is doing is making sure that we keep a watchful eye on that to make sure that whatever is being done, and in any other areas, also in Pensfield, or throughout the entire flood infected area.

Holloway: Mayor, real quickly, there was not a hundred percent consensus on this decision to rebuild or to buy-out. Why do you think most of the citizens, and this caller's position, wanted to put themselves back in harm's way and cause the taxpayers to have to pay again if there is rebuild. Now, I am saying it that way, but why was that decision made? And you address it earlier on but, you obviously considered that in your decision.

Perkins: We wanted to give all the citizens the opportunity to express themselves and when we put the formal proposals on the table, we only had three people to turn them in. We have 2100 citizens in the town, most found out what FEMA really was offering them, and they weren't quite ready to go with that. So most of the people rethought selling out their properties and wanting to stay.

Holloway: Just less than one minute. What was FEMA really offering them?

Higginbothum: Oh, you know, again, there was the choice of either relocating or there was a buy-out. The decision was made, so that is what they are having to deal with. And we applaud them for making a decision. And we are going to help them in every way that we can through that decision.

Holloway: Okay, and I just want to remind folks that a buy-out really means that once FEMA pays that money, it can't be rebuilt. It has to be basically an open area that cannot be redeveloped again. Okay, I want to thank each of you all for being on the program. Time is running completely out. And I want to remind our viewers that we are going to have some numbers that we talked about earlier, so get your pens and paper, in just about thirty seconds we will flash those numbers up for you. I'd like to thank our guests once again for coming out tonight, and thank you for joining us in your calls, and staying up late on this Friday night. Let me remind you coming this Tuesday on UNC TV, be sure to watch a special night of programming on the floods. First, the documentary Hard Rain, lessons learned from the flood of 1999. It is a great program, I have already seen some highlights of it. That will be at 8:00 PM. Then, at nine, Reflections for Recovery, that is an investigative report that looks at how communities in North Dakota are recovering from a similar flood disaster that struck them in 1997. Again, that is this Tuesday, December 7 at 8:00 PM and 9:00 PM. And join us next Friday night on Black Issues Forum, and we will meet the producer of Hard Rain, and also talk to one of the victims featured in her documentary. We look forward to another insightful discussion, and your calls, so make sure to join us at eleven o'clock net week. For all the Black Issues Forum late night staff here at UNC TV, you have a blessed evening and a good night.