1999 - 2000 Broadcast Season
Broadcast Program Transcripts
Episode #1508

Holloway: What were the personal stories behind the flooding disaster of the century? We'll meet the producer who sought to bring some of those stories to life in the UNC-TV documentary entitled "Hard Rain." We'll also talk to one of the flood victims featured in the program and we'll take your calls live coming up on Black Issues Forum. Stay tuned, next.

Male: This program is made possible in part by contributions from UNC-TV viewers like you.

[Theme Music]

Holloway: Good evening and welcome to another live edition of Black Issues Forum. I'm your host, Jay Holloway. Tonight we'll be talking about some of the issues highlighted in the documentary that aired a few nights ago on UNC-TV, "Hard Rain: Lessons Learned From the Flood of '99." Our two guests this evening are Donna Campbell, she was the producer of "Hard Rain", Donna, thank you for being with us, and the Reverend Clifford Coles who was featured in the documentary, Reverend Coles, thank you for being with us. Once again, we'll be taking your questions and comments via telephone tonight. The number to call toll-free is 1-800-555-3120. It'll be a good time to get your call in now, but first for those who did not get a chance to see the program this past Tuesday night, it will air again on UNC-TV this Sunday, December 12^th at 6:00pm and on Tuesday at 10:00pm. Now, let's take a brief look at a clip from "Hard Rain."

[Music]

Male: This may be the worst looking storm we've had in decades.

Male: This flood crossed every possible line and barrier that you can think of. It crossed the racial, the economic.

Female: The environmental effects are going to be plaguing us for years to come.

Male: Let this set of storms be sort of the knock on the door and say, "Wake up!"

Female: We just need all the help we can get.

Female: In the early hours of September 16^th, 1999, Hurricane Floyd dumped 18 inches of hard rain onto the heartland of North Carolina. It flooded everything: homes, farms, factories, schools and libraries, some already controversial hog lagoons. The flood devastated this section of Tarboro and hit 72 other towns. In the days after Floyd, more than 4.2 million acres were covered with black water and misery. Now, more than two months later, the water is gone, but the misery remains.

Female: In the next hour we will explore what is really happening to people as they begin to restore their lives. We'll hear from the families, the farmers and business owners who are struggling with recovery. This is their story.

Holloway: We're broadcasting live right now on UNC-TV, taking your calls statewide about reactions to the documentary if you saw it this past week, as well as personal stories you may have. This is an especially interesting week because not only did we air several programs about the flood, as you know we've been doing this for several weeks now, but also, coming up next week for those of you affected by the flood, this Tuesday, December 14^th is the deadline for FEMA. It could be that half a billion dollars will be distributed, so if you're affected by that if you have not called FEMA, you can call in. Please do that by this Tuesday. Also, on Wednesday, December 15^th, Governor Hunt has called a special session of the general assembly and we'll be looking at a $830 million state flood relief package to rebuild our friends in eastern North Carolina. Donna, that documentary, I saw it and I'm sure hundreds of thousands of others did across our state, and it was a tremendous documentary. I'd like to know on behalf of our viewers, what really were you setting out to capture and really convey in this documentary?

Campbell: I think when the storm hit in September, there probably wasn't one person in the whole state who was prepared for what happened with the flooding. Who knew that was going to happen? The first stories that came out, the first images and reports we were getting on the news were astonishing. In fact, nobody really knew what had happened to people. We set out with our project to find out what public television could do to help those people. We didn't know when we went down what we would find, and it was a remarkable experience for all of us involved.

Holloway: You ended up telling some very impactful stories.

Campbell: We met some very courageous people, some very inspirational people. Folks in North Carolina who have lost everything they owned and they're still very inspirational to me personally and to viewers out there. I hope we got that across. I think Dr. Coles and his family are just a few of the folks.

Holloway: Speaking of those personal stories, let me remind our viewers, 1-800-555-3120, if you want to comment on the documentary, or if you have a personal story as well. Reverend Coles, you owned a house there and have property at Princeville and you're also pastor of a church in Winston Salem. But in the documentary, you mentioned that there was no notice in Princeville given on the night of the flood. Tell us what the situation was on the night of the flood and how people were notified.

Coles: The word on the street was that there was no notification. The water just came down in a huge deluge from Rocky Mount. We also heard that the folks in Rocky Mount deliberately released the water. The first version of the rumor was that folks in Tarboro were notified, but folks in Princeville were not. I claim if that were true, that's an act of environmental racism. Both municipalities should have been informed. I learned however, as I watched the documentary, that Mr. Varney I believe it was, who was the assistant manager of Rocky Mount, said, no, he did not notify Tarboro, he did not notify anyone. I submit to you that that's a criminal action, to have released two feet of water to have dropped that dam in Rocky Mount, understanding that they were experiencing some flooding also, but not to have let the rest of us know that this deluge of water was coming down, was criminal. That's a fireable offense, as far as I'm concerned.

Holloway: OK, well, thank you for that. Once again, we're here to take your calls if you want to call in. Donna, what were some of the greatest challenges you had in producing this documentary and what stories, how did you go about deciding to cover what stories?

Campbell: I don't know. I think just the story we're hearing right now of the water that was released from the dam, this is an example of the challenge that was there for us, because there was so much misinformation. There were rumors. There was confusion. Those first few weeks right after the flood, people didn't have communication. They were in shelters. They may catch a little bit of television, but most everything was word of mouth. They asked us what was going on and we tried to find out what was happening. So it was a very confusing time. That was a big challenge. I hope we don't move away from the topic of communication. One of our objectives with the show was to talk about what lessons we learned from this flood. I think we're still learning the lessons. I think one big one is communication among municipalities, county to county, whether it's from Raleigh down to the towns, I don't know. But big communication gaps exist.

Holloway: We actually had a representative from State Emergency Management and I posed that question to him about releasing these dams. That was much of what we had heard as well in our investigation from this program. Many of them, he said, because of all of the rain and the amount of it, that releasing the dams did not make that much of a difference. Now that was his statement. While you think about it to respond, we have a caller from Pender County. Pender County, please go right ahead with your comment or question, please.

Male: My question is, why ain't we receiving any more help than what we're receiving? It seems like to me.

Holloway: Can you turn down your TV a little bit, sir? We're on live and you may have your TV a little bit. We're getting a little feedback. While you do that, I really guess that's a FEMA question. Have you experienced that question a lot when you talk to people?

Campbell: I think everywhere you go in eastern part of North Carolina, FEMA is there and I'm sure there are FEMA representatives who could give us the facts and figures, the numbers of people, the money that has been spent, but everywhere you look, there are people still waiting for phone calls, still waiting for their applications to be processed, still waiting for questions to be answered. I'm sure our caller has that same frustration that we've seen everywhere.

Holloway: Let me just say to our caller and to others listening, I understand from FEMA, we've had two representatives on the program since we've started this, that even if you were turned down for FEMA, you still can reapply. I would encourage you to still call back to FEMA. They did say again last week, that there's a big gap between what people expect FEMA to do and what they actually do. They are not there, and you mentioned that in your program, to make you whole again, but just to get you on the way to recovery.

Coles: In FEMA's defense, I will say also, that they have instituted a process whereby even persons who have been turned down in that first run through, they will have their applications looked at again. That certainly happened in our case as well. They seem to be trying.

Holloway: Donna, I thought one of the moving scenes, and you touched on that in your documentary in the script, the FEMAville, the trailers there. But do you want to reiterate where that is located and the impact maybe that it had on you when you all went there to see that, based on where it is and how the people were reacting to where they are?

Campbell: The FEMAville temporary village, I don't know what we want to call it, it's about 300 travel trailers and they have been installed with plumbing and running water and as many conveniences as they can have for a temporary village. It's still a shocking thing to see that many people dwelling in that small area. This was outside of Rocky Mount, this one. There are scattered throughout the eastern part of the state, other temporary housing communities. This one was and is and will continue to be a memory that I have from the whole flood because these people lost everything and now they're starting life over. They may be in this camper for 18 months. It's cold weather now. I'm just wondering what's that like for them.

Holloway: What it added for me is it's right near a prison, on a former landfill. You've got elderly people there and this very small, tight place, kids too. Reverend Coles, you also mentioned in the documentary the historic marker there in the former name of, was it Freedom Hill?

Coles: It was originally called Freedom Hill, and as I remarked in the documentary, I wish they had kept that name, because it conveys such meaning. This was the place where the Union soldiers announced that the war was over and the slaves were free. Later on, in their great wisdom, they changed the name to Princeville in honor of one of the commissioners. That action was taken when they were in the process of incorporating the town. What a visionary statement and what a visionary action to have taken, way back then, 1885, for a town of that sort to incorporate itself. How dare they do such a thing? You just have to feel very proud that they were that forward-looking and wanted to protect this low-lying, undesirable land that the goodly white folk did not want. Well, our folks said, "We want it. We're going to claim it. It's ours, and we're going to incorporate it. It's going to be Princeville." They went on from there. They built little one-room shacks. You heard my mother-in-law talk about that. Added another room, outdoor toilets. Later on, maybe cinderblock buildings, a little garden and chickens in the yard. Really made it feel like home. So, there's history there, there's heritage there, and it's no wonder that folks want to preserve that.

Holloway: The decision to rebuild, what's your personal opinion on that?

Coles: I want to assist in every way that I can to see that that happens. I understand the dignity that comes out of having a place of one's own. Again, cast your mind back to that period, when these newly freed slaves, workers from the farms who were put out to pasture, too old to work any longer, they were told to go over to Princeville, at a proper social distance from the goodly white folk across the bridge. As I say, the attempt was made to make that something nice, something comfortable, something wonderful for us. So, yes, I would like to have them preserve that if it's at all possible.

Holloway: Donna, in your documentary you talked about how this crossed all kinds of lines, economic, racial, and everything, but first, what I want to do is take a look at another one of those lines and look at a different viewpoint, because it's not always Princeville, this touched everyone. In your documentary, it featured segments on several areas hit by the floods. One of them is Pollocksville. Let's take a look at a clip from that segment from the feature "Hard Rain."

[CLIP STARTS]

Female: Can I do something?

Female: You can put the lid back on the butter.

Female: Erica Bohme celebrated her 18^th birthday two weeks after the flood. She spent the day with her three younger sisters at their neighbor's house, making cakes for a party that night. For a little while, it seemed like old times.

Female: This stuff here is really all that's salvageable, basically from the bicycle back here, mostly stuff that was in the attic.

Female: The Trent River completely engulfed the Bohme home of 14 years. They were among the lucky ones. They actually had flood insurance.

Female: In order to reap the benefits of the insurance, we have to itemize everything that came out of the house.

Female: This is my music box that Erica and Elise left because it had all their stuff in it, because I let Erica borrow it because she didn't have one.

[END OF CLIP]

Holloway: That's another brief clip from the documentary "Hard Rain" and we have the producer in our studio live, Donna Campbell, and also Reverend Cole. We also have a caller on the line, a caller from Raleigh. Raleigh, go right ahead please with your question or comment.

Derrickson: Hi, my name is Jim Derrickson, and thank you so much for your documentary. You really inspired me to proceed with a project that I've been thinking about for a number of weeks. I'm an Episcopalian from St. Michael's Episcopal Church here in Raleigh and I contacted the diocese and got permission to coordinate a toy drive. We call it "Presents for Princeville." In coordination with the Princeville Blue Ribbon Relief Committee, we're going to be holding a toy drive next Saturday at the State Fairgrounds here in Raleigh from 8:00am to 8:00pm. We'll be collecting toys for the children and then we will be delivering them to Princeville on Sunday, December 19^th. Glen Matheson and the Blue Ribbon Relief Committee is going to handle it for me. We're real excited about the opportunity. I wanted to tell all the folks out there in the Triangle to please come to the State Fairgrounds. Bring a toy for the Presents for Princeville. Thank you so much.

Holloway: Great. Thank you for the call. Those of you in the Triangle, that's a great way to show your holiday spirit. We'll take another call. Let's take one more call from Princeville. Did I hear the mayor or is it someone else from Princeville? The former mayor. Go right ahead please sir.

Male: Yes. I'm listening to your comments regarding FEMA. FEMA, as far as I'm concerned, has really, genuinely created a lot of problems. Let me give you some examples. They brought in people who were inexperienced and incompetent to carry out the FEMA regulations. That's number one. They also had people who speak in a different language who had problems understanding our people when they were trying to communicate with them during the process. FEMA also even, on this application, asked the applicants to sign a statement authorizing the transfer of information to other agencies. At the time they're doing this, they are bridging our people's rights by having them.[STATIC]

Holloway: Sir, we're having a bad connection. Do you have a brief question or comment? Because that's a great comment. We know we've had quite a few concerns and callers about the concerns with FEMA. Is there a quick question that you have before we move on?

Male: I just wanted to make a statement regarding problems arising out of FEMA's involvement in Princeville, North Carolina. FEMA has created a lot of the problems on its own by virtue of the manner in which they came in.

Holloway: OK, well, thank you so much for your call and comment. You all noticed that in the documentary, and Reverend, I'm sure you noticed that too. Would either one of you like to comment on that, first? Reverend Cole?

Coles: The caller is right. There was a great deal of confusion. You'd speak to one FEMA inspector or official and you never got the same answer if you went to another official. There was no uniformity of response. We were just as confused as we could be. Oftimes, appointments were given in order to inspect our homes. The FEMA person would not show up. You'd have an exchange of phone calls. They were sometimes calling late at night. Still, you never got the same person. It was a nightmare for a long time. It really was.

Holloway: OK, let's go to another caller real quickly from Monroe, North Carolina. Monroe, go right ahead with your comment or question, please.

Hugh: Yes, my name is Darryl Hugh. I just want to know, since you don't see it on the national media any more. When you see issues on the national media, then when they stop showing them, the problem doesn't stop. You still have a problem. I want to know, what is the current condition of Princeville and these flooded areas? What kind of support are these people getting? What kind of church support? Where is the black church in all of this? What kind of support are these people getting? Has the water receded? What's the condition? What's the present condition and what are these people doing on a day-to-day basis? I don't even want to hear about any government. We shouldn't even get any government bureaucrats, because it takes so much time. Where is the black church? I mean, where is the on-off support? You know, the black on black support?

Holloway: OK, where is the support and what's the present situation, Reverend Coles?

Coles: Let me take the first question first. Where's the support? You might have heard very recently of a gift of some $40,000 coming from the Winston Salem Ministers Association. The Conference, Winston Salem Ministers Conference, they decided to give a check of $250 to 160 of our Princeville natives, each. That was done just last week. A number of other churches are coordinating.

Holloway: Are these larger black churches?

Coles: Larger black churches and white churches are coming forward. My church across the street from my own church, for example, Paynes CME in Winston Salem, sent down just today a tractor trailer full of furniture, clothing, shoes, bottled water, cleaning supplies and so on.

Holloway: Real briefly, we've got less than three minutes and I want to get another comment from Donna and another caller. What's the current situation? Anybody moved back in yet living there in Princeville?

Coles: People are in their travel trailers where that is permissible. For the most part, nobody is living in Princeville just yet. Power is not on, water is not on, that sort of thing.

Holloway: OK. We're going to take one last caller and hear from Donna before we close. We have a caller, I didn't quite get where you were calling from, but go right ahead please, Greenville!

Rouse: Yes, this is Jim Rouse. How are you doing, Jay?

Holloway: Hey, Jim, how are you?

Rouse: How you doing. My radio transmitter was under water and knocked me out of business and my radio station and the listeners in the Pitt County area. We were blessed that once the water went down, which was about three weeks later, but you know you're talking about loss of income. I have to compliment FEMA. I have to compliment the black church. I have to compliment Reverend Walker over at Ebeneezer, Cornerstone, and so many black churches.

Holloway: Well, Jim, you know in broadcasting we've got short time, so I need you to make a quick comment or question.

Rouse: I just wanted to let you know that Greenville was affected. I realize Princeville, damage that happened there, but Greenville lost a lot more homes than Princeville. Thank God that we're able to move ahead right now.

Holloway: OK, we're glad you're back up and going again, ourselves.

Rouse: Yes sir.

Holloway: Thanks. Good to hear from you.

Rouse: Thank you.

Holloway: Alright. Certainly we don't want to imply that Princeville was the only place affected. The documentary did so much to do that. Actually, the subtitle was "Lessons Learned." Conclude with us, Donna. What were some of the lessons learned you think from this flood and in your documentary?

Campbell: That this flood was a great leveler. It affected all of us. Even if we weren't in the flooded area. It has affected all of us. As bad as it has been, all of the profound loss that we have seen, and that your community has experienced, Dr. Coles, I still think that there's a lot of hope for the future here. I think we'll rebuild and do greater things because of this terrible thing.

Holloway: Last quick comments on rebuilding?

Coles: I just hope that we'll take full advantage in Princeville of the four living mayors that we have, and that they will be permitted to use their great resources in helping our sitting mayor. These men have a great deal to offer, and if she is as clever as I believe she can be, she'll make use of the help they can give.

Holloway: Thank you all both. I want to remind all of our victims affected by flood that Tuesday is the deadline to apply for FEMA. Also, keep your eyes on the relief coming from our general assembly on this Wednesday. Once again, we must come to a close. I'd like to thank our guests, Donna Campbell and the Reverend Clifford Coles. And thank you for joining us, for watching and participating with your calls. If you missed the premiere broadcast of "Hard Rain", don't miss out a second time. The program airs this Sunday on UNC-TV at 6:00pm. You don't want to miss it, I'll tell you. Again, also on Tuesday night at 10:00. Next Friday night, we'll be back at 11:00 for a discussion on lost culture and history resulting from Floyd and options for restoration. We'll be here to take your calls live so be sure to join us again for Black Issues Forum, and all the late night crew here at UNC-TV. I'm Jay Holloway. You have a blessed evening. Good night.

[Music]

[END OF PROGRAM]