1999 - 2000 Broadcast Season
Broadcast Program Transcripts
Episode #1509

Holloway: .Contributed heavily to its economic livelihood.

[MUSIC]

Holloway: Good evening, and welcome to this live edition of Black Issues Forum. I am your host, Jay Holloway. And tonight, we have with us experts from several different agencies to talk about the natural, environmental, and historical losses to eastern North Carolina, and restoring those losses. I'd like to first welcome Andrea Harris. She is with the Institute of Minority Economics Development. Also, Claudia Brown, with the Survey and Planning Grant of the State Historic Preservation Office, and Don Water, with the North Carolina Department of Environment and Natural Resources. Thanks to each of you for being with us tonight. Late night. And also, we are taking your calls. Thank you for tuning in. And our late night operators are standing by to take your questions and comments. We like to call in regarding environmental damage and restoration of historical and cultural resources, especially in eastern North Carolina. The toll free telephone number is 1-800-555-3120. Well, let's start off our discussion tonight. Just yesterday, the General Assembly passed its hurricane relief package at $836 million dollars. I'd like each of you to respond, but Andrea, I would like for you to start. From the Institute's point of view, what were the pros and cons for this relief package for our state?

Harris: I thought it was a good package. It was a timely package. It filled some gaps that were really needed, in terms of jumpstarting and addressing housing needs, some environmental issues, and naturally, some of the issues facing the business community and the farming community. So hopefully, we will have some of the monies on the table now that can go for housing rehab and new construction, and the like. And I think that is good. I think the downside is that somewhere down the line, I think it is important that elected officials feel that they are in an environment that they can take the steps necessary, such that if we need to increase taxes in order to address problems that they don't feel that if they take such steps that they risk their political careers in doing so. So, that is the downside, personally for me, that people are not willing to step up and do that.

Holloway: Well, politicians, legislators, you heard the challenge. Call in tonight if you would like to participate in the program and explain some of those issues in the bill and some of your view points even. And let's talk about the preservational, historical issues. Now, as I understand it, nothing was included in this legislative appropriation for that. Is that true, Claudia?

Brown: That is correct. No federal or state money to date has been earmarked, specifically for historic properties. And while I think, overall, the relief package is of great benefit to eastern North Carolina considering the current situation, it is a disappointment that there wasn't any money for historic properties. So far, we've documented almost twenty-five million dollars in damage specifically to historic properties. A number of those are owned by local governments and private non-profits and are very important to the economy of eastern North Carolina, because they are vital to heritage tourism. But there is no.these buildings do have special needs. And there has been no money targeted specifically for them.

Holloway: Don, your area did get money. I think about $17 million for environmental clean-up and monitoring. You want to comment on this $836 million that the legislature recently appropriated?

Water; Sure. In addition to the $17 million, there was also $10.2 million dollars for dredging projects. And let me get to them first. It's to clear navigational channels that were blocked off as a result of the storms, and to open up shipping lanes and navigation in our coastal waters. But the $17 million that were appropriated in the legislation is critical to determine the environmental effects of the storm. And we've been monitoring since September, since we experienced the flooding. But a priority has always been making sure the drinking water in eastern North Carolina is safe, and that is part of this package, to test that. Ongoing testing of water quality. We had a number of super fund sites, underground storage tanks, landfills, old landfills, that were compromised as a result of the storm. And we need to find out if there is additional clean-up that needs to be done. We also need to make sure that our coastal waters are safe for recreational purposes as we head into the summer months when people tend to go to our coastal waters to swim and to fish.

Holloway: Okay. Well, thank you for that response on that package. Let's go to our first caller in eastern North Carolina, from Bladen County. Bladen County, please go right ahead with your comment or question.

Female Caller: Yes, what are doing about the effects on the environment of poultry operations, especially if the poultry operation comes in after people have been established?

Holloway: Okay. Did you hear that question?

Water: Yes, um, the state has made funds available for poultry operations. It is important to note that approximately three million turkeys and chickens were lost during the floods. A great deal of damage occurred because of the flooding in the clay lined floors of the chicken houses, and we have made some money available to help farmers rebuild their chicken houses to get back on the ground. And we know they are in a tough situation. And we are also trying to provide as much technical assistance and support as we can.

Holloway: Caller, are you still there?

Female Caller: Yes, I am.

Holloway: Did that answer your question?

Female Caller: Well, not exactly. What I am talking about is someone who has a poultry operation, and they know that someone is getting sick -

Holloway: Can you speak up just a little bit, please?

Female Caller: Well, I ran into a situation where a person says there is nothing we can do about the way he spreads these.the stuff out of the house. And it was in a very high and mighty attitude. And we have contacted the environmental people in our district, but we have not been able to get anything done. They said they are working on it. So, what are you doing about people who are not flooded but are affecting their neighbors?

Holloway: Oh, good question. So, was that FEMA you were dealing with? What agency?

Caller: No, this was the environment. I called before the flooding.

Holloway: Okay. So, you were not affected. I think we have your question now. So, what are we doing with people that were not directly flooded out but were indirectly effected by the flood, that have poultry.

Water: The question is about finding markets? Or, I guess my question is, is it an environmental problem managing the waste?

Holloway: I think we may have lost the caller.

Water: Well, what I would do if the caller is still there is to encourage her to contact either our customer service number that we have set up, which is a 1-877 number or to contact, if she is in Bladen County, I believe she is served by our Fayetteville regional office. And that number is available through the customer service center.

Holloway: This number that we have on the screen, is that.

Water: That is the one. And we can try and get her the help that she needs, and of course, if she needs to call Raleigh, she can always try and call me as well. And we will try and get her the support that she needs. But, not knowing the full circumstances of her situation, I feel unable to respond.

Holloway: Well, thank you, Don. Let's turn now to some of the historic preservation. One that has been nationally known, and we have had the guest on our program, we've talked a lot about the Princeville area. And our two ladies on the program tonight are very familiar with that situation. There is no money for historic preservation in this state. And you have mentioned, Claudia, not federal either. How can people rebuild, folks like Princeville, historic sites and get money to get back on their feet.

Brown: Well, for some of the historic sites, for one historic site in particular, and I am thinking about the former Princeville school, which was most recently used as a town hall, it is our understanding that that building would be eligible for some federal assistance. Because it was a town hall, it would be eligible for public assistance, and that is a property that ______ historic, it is eligible for the national register of historic places, so our office would also be providing some technical assistance. We have certain responsibilities under section 106 with the National Historic Preservation Act to review any proposed work on buildings that are receiving federal money and that are eligible for the national register.

Holloway: Andrea, you have had some personal experience with the folks in Princeville about that. Can you share that with our audience, what you and your agency may be doing with that?

Harris: Yes, well, prior to the hurricane, we were working with the town on a heritage tourism trail with the support of Cultural Resources and the National Parks Service. We had done a lot of work along the dike, had designed, had a design completed for a walking trail. They had historic cemeteries there. And as was said, the old town hall is an old Rosenwald school. So, that is a historic site. There are some other historic properties and churches in the community as well. And it was very important to, I guess, just the overall economic future and viability of that town. Now, we still have some challenges of what can be preserved. Where can resources be identified? How can we access those resources so that we can rebuild? One real piece for eastern North Carolina as far as economic development is that there is tremendous economic potential in heritage tourism. And so, historic preservation is a major priority throughout the eastern part of the state. That is at risk right now.

Holloway: And, of course, they have chosen to rebuild. And speaking of rebuilding, we have a question from Person County about rebuilding. Person County, go right ahead with your comment or question, please.

Caller: Hey, how are y'all doing this evening? I have just an idea that I think needs to go out on the board at the early stage and about revitalization of places like Princeville, that each individual should be helped to get, with their own input, whatever they need for successful future. Not just rebuilding an area, to feel like they are deprived or they don't have enough energy or money or whatever. Work with those folks and get their input, and you will find that they get equal tools and planning assistance that every man in Princeville is going to live like a prince in twenty years. Ten years. Give them something to work with. Let them get their hands in it from beginning. And they won't feel like they are being run over again. This time not just by a flood of water, but by a flood of bureaucrats.

Holloway: Well, thank you for your comment. You want to respond to his comment?

Harris: Yeah, I think the greatest asset that Princeville has is its people. And it is because of the compassion and commitment that the people of the town have for their community and for one another, that the town has sustained itself for now more that a hundred years. I think that is even true today, and I do think that they are committed to making sure that there is a, that the town continues and that they are in that driving position. There is value in what he says, that often when you have a situation like this and so much publicity, everyone wants to come in from the outside and everybody has the answer for you. But I am confident that the people in the town will make their own decisions. And hopefully, the resources will respond to them rather than feeling that they can dictate the future to people in the town.

Holloway: Well, speaking of that, Claudia, let me ask you. What does a city, a town like Princeville need to do to get an architectural study? And explain what that is.

Brown: Well, one thing that we would like to see happen in Princeville, and I think will probably happen fairly soon, and our office, I imagine, will be taking the lead in this, is to go to Princeville and to take a really close look at the older building stock, the historic properties, and identify exactly which properties are potentially eligible, in addition to the town hall and Mt. Zion Baptist Church, and those are the two primary buildings I can think of that we have been aware of so far. But what other historic properties are historic properties are potentially eligible for listing in the National Register? And in order to do that, we first need to do a comprehensive survey, go in and record with photographs and talk to the residents of Princeville. I think a very important part of this is to find out what the residents in Princeville consider to be historic. And also, use the wealth of knowledge that the residents have there about their historic properties. We visited Princeville last, I guess about October 7^th, a team of us went to drive through, sort of do a windshield survey. And just taking a quick pass, we counted about fifty to sixty properties that looked like they were built prior to World War II. Now, how many of those would be eligible for the register, we don't know. That is, they have to meet other criteria in addition to simply being older than fifty years.

Holloway: ______ we are going to put some numbers up on the screen so people that are interested in that information, and also we know that there are places outside of just Princeville. So, go right ahead, put these numbers on the screen now.

Brown: What I was going to say is that we do think that there might be a small district that would include the school and Mt. Zion Church, and several houses. So there might be a potential National Register district in the town. And Edgecomb County is served, Princeville is served by our Raleigh office, so if folks have questions about national register eligibility, they should call the survey and planning branch in Raleigh. If they have questions that they would like some technical assistance about restoration of their properties, they should contact our restoration branch in Raleigh.

Holloway: All right, Don, we are going to come back to you and ask you about one of the great environmental concerns that we talked about, the drinking water. And I want you to kind of explain that. But we, speaking of Raleigh, Claudia, we have a caller from Wake County. I don't know if they are from Raleigh. Well, I think we lost them. Okay, once again, the phone number to call in is 1-800-555-3120. We are here to take your calls tonight about environmental and historical questions. But, let's go to Cumberland County right now, since we lost the Wake County. Cumberland County, go right ahead with your comment or question.

Male Caller: Yes, what is being done to control the flood waters in the future?

Holloway: Okay. Good question.

Male Caller: Unless we control the river, this is going to happen again with a good heavy rain. And like I say, what is going to be done?

Water: Well, clearly, we learned a real hard lesson as result of the flooding associated with the recent hurricanes. First and foremost, we need better maps of what constitutes being in the flood plain. As we grow in different river basins, and we put pavement down and homes down and businesses down, we change the configuration of the flood plain, and what we have found in this particular case is that so many of them were so outdated they were pretty much useless. We need to start thinking about how we grow.

Holloway: And we know where the flood plains are now.

Water: Well, we know what has been flooded. But the hundred year flood plain is a changing dynamic, and there needs to be more attention and more resources into keeping them up to date and more smart decisions. Not putting things in harms way. It would seem obvious that you shouldn't put a junk yard in floodplain. Anybody who saw the news reports saw the oily sheen coming from junkyards that were flooded by the waters associated with the hurricanes would clearly say, "Well, that wasn't a smart idea. So, we need to take steps to keep that, to move the ones we can out of the flood plain, and make sure that new ones don't go in.

Holloway: Well, I am not going to put questions in the caller's, what they intended to do, but we had a question similar to that before, and I think we talked about this off camera. And the Mayor of Princeville responded when a caller stated that why will you continue to rebuild? And you know, we rebuild San Francisco, we rebuild the beaches of North Carolina, but you know, people are continuing to ask these questions, and so that is not his question specifically, but it could lead towards that.

Water: Exactly, you know. These are areas that need economic opportunity and they need places to live. What we need to decide is what is the appropriate location for these types of things as we restore, as we rebuild, as we recover. And look at things that pose too great an environmental risk to be in this particular place. But by the same token, looking at opportunities to protect open space that could be beneficial to all segments of the population that could serve as a benefit, actually, to water quality through buffers and wetlands protection. So, we use those rivers that are adjacent to our rivers for the benefit of all people while taking those things that pose just an unacceptable risk to water quality and to public health.

Holloway: Okay. Well, our calls are coming further central to North Carolina. We are back to Forsythe County now. Forsythe County, go right ahead with your comment or question.

Female Caller: Good evening. My call, my question is for the gentleman who is representing the Department of Environment and Natural Resources, and certainly, I would like to thank that all of you for addressing these concerns. I would like to know if you could possibly readdress the caller who called in from Bladen County, who wants to know what they can do if they are inadvertently affected by Floyd, but not flooded. With means f specifics, I happen to be a person in also the environment and natural resources and I also know that there are some things that she did not disclose to you, but certainly, she can call and get some help in certain areas if you were to mention some particular things that would concern her for instance, you did mention waste. But you didn't tell her who to call.

Water: I tried to, there are opportunities for assistance through the states agricultural cast share program, that can offer some financial as well as technical assistance to the agricultural community. Our environmental regulatory people are also available to provide technical guidance. I would encourage anyone who has questions about what they need to do or available assistance to call either our customer service number, and then they can also see what type of financial assistance is available through either the state emergency package or the federal one that proceeded it.

Holloway: Okay, we have got callers coming in here, so I am going to get another caller. We have got just less than five minutes. I want to get back to our other guests here. Stanley County will probably be our last caller for tonight. Go right in with your comment or question. please. Stanley County, are you there?

Female Caller: Yes.

Holloway: Go right ahead, please. Thank you for calling.

Female Caller: Yes, I am wondering if they rebuild, want to rebuild Prince County back, is there any way that they have someone to come in there and look at their property. And if a flood comes again, will they be safe, is it safe for them to build?

Holloway: Good question. Let's ask Andrea.

Harris: I would say feeding back on something that has already been said by the Department of Environment and Natural Resources, that Princeville is not unlike any place else. Princeville is less of a flood plain than many of the other areas throughout eastern North Carolina that were flooded and maybe were not affected as badly. But, the problem is that we don't deal, we've not done a good job overall as a population as a state, none of us individually or collectively, and our efforts to plan our growth, to maintain, as was said, our rivers and our streams, to do a better job in looking at what we are doing with highways. Where are we putting the concrete, where are we not putting the concrete? And what is happening in that regard, as Mayor Perkins said when she was here before, it has not been so much an issue in the past, when we consistently have hurricanes, damage at the beaches, but all of the sudden with Princeville, who had not had a flood since 1958 until Floyd, that everyone wants to say now, is it safe to rebuild. I think it was safe for us to continuously rebuild on the coast, but it does point to these issues of we need to do a better job with planning, zoning, and valuing our natural resources. So, yes, they should rebuild, and they don't have any more fear than anyone else.

Holloway: I want to ask you very briefly, we have just a minute left, the decision to rebuild versus buy-out. Would that effect the historic preservation in a place like Princeville?

Brown: Well, it is unclear to us, we are not certain exactly, what additional federal assistance might be available for property owners. One thing that we are trying to find out is if there will be additional assistance to elevate buildings. And that is a technique that has been used in other communities that have been flooded, such as Belhaven.

Holloway: Don, very quickly. The issue that many people in Princeville had was about this dam in Rocky Mount. And the issue of it being released versus failure. Can you explain that very quickly?

Water: Yes. We understand and fully appreciate why people are so concerned, and as a matter of fact, very shortly after the storm, our division of land resources day of safety section conducted a review of the activities at that particular dam. And they only opened one of two spillways. And our investigators determined that they acted responsibly to protect the integrity of that dam, and felt that any excessive flooding, if there was flooding downstream that contributed down in Princeville, which was twenty miles below the dam, as result of their activities at that particular dam would have been minimal, and the bulk of the flooding would not have been changed dramatically by a different type of activity.

Holloway: Well, thank you for addressing that. We know it was an issue, and we thank you for addressing it. That is our time for tonight. We want to say thanks to our guests for joining us, and thank you for also tuning in and watching. We will be back again next week for a pre-recorded Black Issues Forum special, Kwanza from the east. We will be visiting with our regularly featured telephone call-in guest, Theresa Williams, from Princeville, and her family. They lost just about everything in the flood, but they truly remain full of joy and hope. So, please join us again on Christmas Eve right here on UNC-TV, for Black Issues Forum and all the late night crew, you have a blessed evening, a Merry Christmas, and a good night.