1999 - 2000 Broadcast Season
Broadcast Program Transcripts
Episode #1514

Holloway: How are historically black colleges and universities surviving in the 21^st century? How are they competing with predominantly white institutions? We will talk with the first female president of one of North Carolina's independent colleges to address these and other issues, next on Black Issues Forum. Stay tuned.

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Holloway: Good evening and welcome to Black Issues Forum. I am your host, Jay Holloway. And tonight, our guest is representing one of North Carolina's private institutions of higher learning, located in Raleigh, Dr. Dianne Bordilee Suber is the first female president of Pornet and St. Augustine's Colleges' 132 year history. Congratulations on your recent appointment, Dr. Suber.

Suber: Thank you.

Holloway: Welcome to North Carolina, as well.

Suber: Well, it is great to be here. It is sort of like coming home. I started teaching in Greensboro years ago. So it is great to be back.

Holloway: So, you just came to North Carolina, St. Augustine's, from Hampton University, where you were vice-president and assistant provost, I believe.

Suber: Yes.

Holloway; Well, Let's talk about, we are here now in the 21^st century. Historically black colleges are still thriving and doing well. Some of them are not. But we have been talking for so long, people have been, about the coming 21^st century and will we be ready. What are some of the unique viewpoints you may have about what administrators, faculty, students and alumni need to be thinking about as we survive and thrive in the 21^st century?

Suber: Well, there are about 117 historically black colleges and universities. There is definitely a continued need for their presence and their influence, and they are serving as a bastion, if you will, for the education of a specific population of students. I think that is probably true of not just historically black colleges and universities, but all specifically targeted schools such as tribal colleges, gender dominant institutions, those institutions that were founded and continue to purport the doctrines of certain religious faiths. I think there is a place in this educational arena for those institutions. I do think though, as the educational arena becomes more competitive, as funds begin to be more specifically targeted toward different entities, both from a national level, a state level, and a privately or externally funded level, that these institutions are going to have to develop a niche, a specific niche that may and should be unique to the individual schools. Most of the institutions, historically black colleges and institutions, were founded with a similar mission, and that was to provide an educational forum for the former slaves. But as we move toward a community that is more global in its focus, that is more integrated in its intent, I think it is going to be critical that those of us that have the responsibility for leadership for these institutions very carefully and strategically finding an appropriate niche for them.

Holloway: And one of those niches, I guess, is competing with these traditionally white institutions, private institutions and public institutions. What do you say to the persons that still wonder why, you touched on this in your initial remarks, about how there is still a need for these institutions? We are now in the 21^st, we mentioned, and just as recently as the King Holiday in January here, you have got the NAACP at several historically black colleges receiving this hate mail. What do you say to persons, and not necessarily to them, but for those people who still question the need for the existence of these institutions now?

Suber: Well, I think it is like, we tend to think of it in terms of a racial issue as we talk about historically black colleges and universities, but again, as we look at tribal colleges and the other institutions that focus on a particular culture, it is consistent with the diversity of the country. It is consistent with the idealism that we are "a melting pot," or we are at the very least a microcosm of the world. It is acceptable as understandable that there will be educational institutions that will continue to support the cultures of specific populations of students. And that is a good thing. That helps to contribute to this diversity issue. To this desire to have people from divergent thinking backgrounds and processes come together for the good of the whole, if you will.

Holloway: Speaking of diversity, and maybe I will jump to the diversity in the gender issue. At one time there were very few, if any, females heading institutions. But now in North Carolina, there are many. And why do you think all of the sudden now, society and our institutions are accepting capable leadership like yourself?

Suber: Well, I could say it is because you finally got it right. But I think in a very real sense, it is reflective of what is happening nationally. We are moving from a historic role where women were, by design, not afforded the opportunity to move out of a certain type of role or a not afforded the opportunity to move out of a certain type of role or a certain category of working, just a general role. And as we have seen a change in all entities, whether it is government, whether it is corporate America, in terms of professionalism, education, the educational arena is moving with the trend. I will say to you that I think women bring a different type of leadership than men do, and often times we are criticized because of the nurturing characteristic that women put on the table. But I think by and large, particularly as we look at educational institutions, that that nurturing, that understanding of child development, that whole training and persona, if you will, causes us to be particularly strong educational leaders. I think you see it in higher education, but I also think you are seeing it across the country in educational arenas. There are more female principals, there are more female superintendents, and I think it is consistent with the times.

Holloway: So have women in general, and more specifically, women of color, basically broken the glass ceiling now, you think?

Suber: I think we are chipping away at it. I think broken is a bit optimistic at this point, but I do think we are having increased access. I think our credentials and applications and initiatives to move up that ladder, if you will, are being taken more seriously, and the more women that get in these positions that achieve and can validate success certainly keeps the gap opening. And pretty soon, I will imagine that glass ceiling will be gone.

Holloway: Is it different for African-American women than it is for other women of color, in terms of taking this route?

Suber: Well, I think African- American women have the double challenge of proving in two arenas, you are African-American, and you are a women. Both of those entities create a challenge in terms of upward mobility. Certainly, as you put the two together, it would suggest that the challenge is double. And I am not sure that I would be comfortable saying that it is an extraordinary challenge, but I do think that in certain arenas, African American women do still find themselves having to prove that they are competitive. That they are as capable of it as some of their other counterparts.

Holloway: While we are still on the gender issues, as many of the young African-American women rise up in the ranks of education, business and throughout, we still have this, on the one hand, problem with the young African-American male. But a lot are still doing very successfully right now. How does that affect the young African male, as the women is really moving into ranks now?

Suber: Well, there are those that would say that there is this battle between African-American men and African-American women. I don't think that is necessarily so. What I see happening is that as we develop a more global acceptance of diversity, if you will, that as a people, we are moving and trying to open doors for one another. I think there is still, African-American women are still pushing to make a place for themselves. And our roles, I think, are to support the network, which I am not sure is gender driven as much as that particular group of people is racially driven. There is, I guess there is a, one of the things we have to be very careful of, I think, as a people, is to not let the media, if you will, dictate really what is happening in our society. The fact is is that African-American men, young men, are doing very well, and there are a great percentage of them that are also opening the door for African American women. And as we as a people move more up the ladder, if you will, I think it is going to be evident that the network is a lot stronger than the gender issue.

Holloway: Now, the 2000 census is upon us, and we will be beginning to start hearing the results, and many are predicting that the Hispanic population will eventually, certainly by the next census, probably surpass that of African Americans. What do you think the role is of the historically black colleges and universities, as we talk about this diversity and this melting pot and either welcoming in the Latino population, or competing for resources?

Suber: Well, it's interesting, and I am going to take some privilege here, and I am going to come back to the Hispanic piece, but I want to share with you in a roundabout way in answering your question. I recently, couple a years ago, was selected as a Kettering Scholar. It is a small group of educators identified by the Kettering Foundation to come together in, really, a think tank. One of the persons who was selected with me in this process is a professor at Fintaglesca College, which is a tribal college in South Dakota. As we had an opportunity to dialogue, what became apparent was that many of the challenges that face African-American youth also face Native American youth. They may be presented in a little bit different venue in terms of behavior, but the challenges and issues are very similar. Since I have been here in Raleigh, at St. Augustine's College, there is a staff person who is on the staff, Rita Jackson, who is also a representative of the Hispanic population. And as she and I have begun to talk, it has become apparent in a very real sense that many of the issues and challenges that face the Hispanic youth are also the same that face African American and Native American Youth. And I think in that revelation, there is a direction that would suggest that people of color probably are postured to begin to collaborate and share in this commitment to educate those of our youth that are somewhat disenfranchised the larger population. As opposed to seeing it as a negative competitive issue, I really see it as a very positive opportunity for peoples of varying color and culture to come together for the same goals.

Holloway: So are you saying that institutions like yours at St. Augustine's will be reaching out to these other populations to serve them at your institutions?

Suber: I certainly think so. We have already started a program, or had started a program when I left at Hampton University, and we are going to do the same at St. Augustine's college, with the expectation that we will somehow bring these institutions together to, if nothing else, articulate strategies and solutions in addressing the challenges that meet our youth from very similar forces.

Holloway: Now, in addition to meeting challenges of youth, let's talk to the person out there that does not have their college education yet, and maybe this conversation is interesting but a little foreign. But many institutions now are targeting the non-traditional college student through a concept called distance learning. So do you have any comments on that in terms of the role of HBCUs, Historically Black Colleges and Universities, looking to reach out and serve those who maybe cannot come to campus because of other reasons?

Suber: Well, I think that this a very viable possibility. When we talk about our institution finding a niche, and maintaining our mission, which was to initially reach out to those students who were under-served, distance learning unquestionably provides us with the entrée to doing just exactly that. The nontraditional student, those students who have worked a long time but recognize that education still is a very viable way of moving into a, increasing the quality of life, those persons who are disconnected from an educational arena because they live in rural areas of the country or mountainous areas of the country, or, I talked with a young man this morning who was from Nebraska who said schools were 40 or 50 miles apart from each other. I think distance learning is a very viable alternative and opportunity for historically black colleges and universities, and the educational system. I do think that it is going to be important though to understand that it is not a substitute for the humane or human part of educational process. There is still a very definitive need to be sure that as you are learning content you are also learning how to interact and interface with the people who will benefit from your education.

Holloway: Are those issues the same whether you are a state institution or a private institution, a black institution or a white institution?

Suber: I think that the issues are exactly the same. I think the differences most oftentimes come down to funding. The ability to fund the initiative and maintain the initiative. Technology is very expensive, and it is more of a challenge I think for private institutions than it is for state institutions. It is equally as challenging or more challenging for those institutions that don't have as large networks. So I think the issue is the same, I think how you achieve it may be very different.

Holloway: So is it going to be more challenging for you to fund these issues than the state institutions do you think?

Suber: I think so.

Holloway: And how do you, that's one of the things that we are going to move into in the coming weeks in this state, talking about the whole idea of, the state tax dollars fund this UNC system, and five of the institutions are also historically black colleges and universities. And there is a tremendous funding issue right now here in this state with the public institutions. But how are you going to rise to the challenge? I should guess that it is even a stronger funding issue when you don't have these state dollars at a private institution, to still compete with these public institutions.

Suber: Well, I think it is, again, as I said to you, it is finding a niche and finding that particular strategy that says this is an institution that should be recognized and supported. And the challenge is going to differ from state to state. The trend in terms of state boards looking at funding issues really does vary from state to state. Some states are looking at increasing tuition, other states are looking at decreasing tuition, making, in fact, college education more acceptable and more accessible to the constituency of the state. For historically black colleges and universities, increased, one of the differences is, one of the challenges that we meet is that we, where there are out of state fees and in-state fees for most state institutions, most historically black colleges and universities have a standard fee, a tuition and room and board fee. It is competing for the same pool of students with the possibility of having to pay more that creates the challenge for us. In those states where tuition is being raised for state institutions, it levels the playing field more. In the states where it is being decreased it does increase the challenge. But the foundations have been very supportive of small colleges and universities. It means that we are going to have to become more competitive, we are going to have to offer programs that are relevant. And that, in fact, we can attest to the fact that we are educating kids now for jobs that don't exist at this point. If we can do that we are going to be key players. But again, determining a relevancy in the educational process is going to be a very strategic reality for us.

Holloway: There are a number of historically black colleges around the country that, some that have closed and some that are on a so-called list that could be closed because they are not able to meet these challenges you are talking about. You come from an institution, before coming to St. Augustine's, Hampton University, that has a very strong alumni network and support. How important is that to these private institutions, and how are you going to increase that at St. Augustine's?

Suber: Well, it's incredibly important. And it is interesting, because oftentimes I am confronted or I am addressed and people say, "Well, you're coming from Hampton, how are you going to make this transition?" And in talking with President Harvey I've shared.

Holloway: From Hampton.

Suber: From Hampton University, I've shared some things, and he has indicated to me, he has said to me, "But you need to remind people that Hampton didn't start out where it is now." Hampton is now the product of very definitive and focused leadership, the recognition that we are educating and educating is a mission. Colleges are a business. St. Augustine's has a very well-placed, very influential body of alumni out there. There is no doubt in my mind that they are going to continue to be supportive and increase their support for this institution. It is a premier institution. How should I think to move to the next level, with all the variables in place., including the desire to move to the next level.

Holloway: Speaking of moving to the next level, at St. Augustine's, and I think many private institutions are toying with or are balancing between a traditional option of having an open-door policy to attract the most students, and then, versus raising the standards and, you know, which reduces the amount of students, I would guess. How do you think the private HBCUs are best positioned to do that, and how are you proposing to resolve that at St. Augustine's?

Suber: I don't see that there is a conflict between St. Augustine's and any other college as it relates to standards of excellence. We are all, many of us are enrollment driven, that's a given. We have got to be able to have the number of students so we can pay bills. To raise the standards, and using that terminology suggests that we are bringing in students who don't meet the standards and so we are going to raise them. What I am suggesting is that our students meet the standards. What we've got to look at is how we help them perform in the acceptable measured way, so that it reflects that they are the quality students that we know them to be. Test scores have become the key, if you will, to education, and I have to tell you that being from an early childhood background, and having a developmental perspective on educating kids, I have a real problem with us using test scores as the measurement for students' potential and ability. I would suggest to you that the standard is competitive, whatever we determine is the standard. For St. Augustine's College, like other students, we are going to be able to achieve it. But what we need to do is make sure that we teach them in a way that the measurement is consistent with the key. My whole background says that it is in the teaching. We are going to open the doors, we want all the students who want out education to come in. Yes, we've got a standard that we have to hold to, because it affects our funding, it affects our credit rating. But we are going to educate, we are going to graduate a student that is competitive with any student graduating from any institution in this college.

Holloway: After all that is the legacy of historically black colleges right now.

Suber: Right.

Holloway: And I guess I hear what you are saying already, that the historically black colleges are doing something very similar to what K-12 is doing now, why there has been this gap between student achievement. What matters most really is a good quality teacher. And then what you have done in historically black colleges, while you may not have accepted as many as all the traditional institutions, your graduation rates are higher, and the people are able to compete.

Suber: That's right. It is one of the things that I want to help us maximize at St. Augustine's College, and would really like, part of my vision for the institution is to develop the division of education so that we are educating students who will graduate from St. Augustine's and be able to teach any student anywhere in the country, whether it is in urban America, rural America, whether it is on a tribal reservation, whether it is in the mountains. That the student who comes out of the division of education at St. Augustine's College will be able to go into any environment and take those kids and move them to a point where they will be ensured a quality of life. I think that the teaching/learning process is a critical piece to the success of students, and not the numbers. And if you had the time, I'd sit here and run through a litany of kids who didn't make 920 or 1000 or 1600 on an SAT score or an ACT test who are leaders, movers and shakers. And if they hadn't had access to an institution that took that potential.

Holloway: Well, I tell you. Thank you. Speaking of time, we've run out of time, and we wish you well.

Suber: Thank you.

Holloway: And we think you fit that description you just mentioned in terms of a capable leader right now.

Suber: Well, thank you.

Holloway: .and we wish you well at St. Augustine's.

Suber: Thank you.

Holloway: We have run out of time, that is all we have for this evening. I'd like to thank our guest Dr. Suber for coming out and talking with us this evening and sharing her views. And thank you for watching. Next Friday night at 11 PM please join us for the first in a series of informative discussions on one of the most critical issues facing the state, and we touched on it some this evening: a quality public higher education for all. How will it happen in North Carolina? The answer to this question affects us all, and we'll take a look at the issues with the first black chairman of the UNC Board of Governors, which governs all the state's 16 public institutions of higher education. We'll talk with Ben Ruffin next Friday night at 11. Be sure to join us. For Black Issues Forum I am Jay Holloway. You have a blessed evening, and goodnight.

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