1999 - 2000 Broadcast Season
Broadcast Program Transcripts
Episode #1515
Ben Ruffin, UNC Board of Governor

Holloway: The State's public education system expects 50,000 new students in the next decade. One of the most critical issues facing North Carolina in the year 2000 is how will the State's public universities be sustained financially to provide a competitive and quality higher education. And how will the decisions on these issues impact our black colleges and universities? Well, tonight we are privileged to have with us Benjamin S. Ruffin. He's the chairman of the of University of North Carolina Board of Governors, which heads our State's public higher education system of 16 campuses, including many affiliate agencies like UNC-TV. Mr. Chairman, welcome to UNC-TV and Black Issues Forum.

Ruffin: Thank you very much. I'm delighted to be here.

Holloway: You were elected to the historical post July 10^th, 1998 as the first African-American to chair this board of public higher education institutions, 16 of them, all of the across the state. And in your speech, when you accepted this, Mr. Chairman, you made history and you said, "I accept this challenge as a calling and not as an assignment. But I accept it as a calling to serve because this state has been good to me." How significant was that to you?

Ruffin: Well, I think it - My life has really been a calling. To come from where I started from to end up where I am today means to me that it's a calling that I have to fulfill, a charge to keep I have. The state has been good. People, the citizens have been good to me. And you know, the greatest calling you can have is a call to service. And I think that serving as chair of the Board of Governors is another call, is another calling to fulfil. I went to North Carolina Central University. I am proud to be an Eagle. And I went there with a pittance in my pocket, not enough money to pay my year's tuition. And somehow they saw, they looked beyond my faults and saw my needs. And I obtained an education at North Carolina Central University. And then I was able to go matriculate later to the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill and get a master's degree. So I've received two degrees from our state institutions. And now to have an opportunity come back and serve and to pay part of the homage and part of the debt back is the greatest calling I could have. And to realize today that we have 150,000 students, black and white, rich and poor, of all colors: Hispanics and all nationalities in our institutions going to our 16 universities, I'm must delighted at the pride that people across the national have in the University of North Carolina system and I'm proud of the number of students, of past students, former students who I bump into across the country who say, "I graduated from one of the schools and I'm x and I'm doing this." So it's really a high calling to serve.

Holloway: This UNC system, as you talked about just now, is very diverse. Five HBCUs - Historically Black Colleges and Universities.

Ruffin: `More HBCUs than any other state in the nation.

Holloway: Isn't that something? But yet now the State has supported these public institutions for quite some time, Chapel Hill for over 200 years. And now all of a sudden .

Ruffin: The oldest public institution.

Holloway: The oldest public institution, that's right. And now you head this 16 campus system and you and President Broad have a funding proposal now because apparently there's a serious funding issue. Can you tell our viewers why this is such a critical time for the UNC system, all 16 campuses in terms of funding right now?

Ruffin: Well, President Broad and I don't have a funding proposal really, but the Board of Governors. We have 32 outstanding members of our board. And the president is the administrator. She brings the draft or brings a proposal to us to look at. But we have 32 unbashful members I'm proud of on our board who are not afraid to speak their mind, who are very bright, very intelligent, and who give much more back to this state than people would ever imagine. Three days a month and then all during the month working to help make our university great.

Holloway: This is a collective proposal.

Ruffin: It is a collective proposal and all of us share in it. And I'm telling you, if you come to our meetings you will understand exactly what I'm saying. I mean they really have their input. But we find ourselves in a sort of a peculiar position in the state. None of us could speculate that the tragedy in eastern North Carolina would have occurred. And now that that has occurred, that is the number one budget item for the State of North Carolina. To put the lives of people back together, to put communities back together. And there's no way in the world, even though we have some very critical needs for the University, that we can say that we'd like to be first in front of lives, in front of communities, in front of people trying to put their homes back together, trying to bring their families back under one roof. So we find ourselves in a little bit of a crunch now. The State budget has really been good to us, almost $2 billion a year that we've received to help maintain our schools. We would not have the great universities in North Carolina that we have today if it had not been for the State of North Carolina providing us with funds. Furthermore, the economy of the State of North Carolina would not be where it is today - We sit today in the Research Triangle Park and this Research Triangle Park is a direct beneficiary of the Treasury of the State of North Carolina and from the intelligentsia developed by the University of North Carolina system. So it's a tremendous combination of economics and education together. And fortunately the founding fathers and the early fathers of our state were smart enough o understand that a great education system was so fundamental to building a strong economy in our state.

Holloway: Now let me ask you, is this a real issue because - you mentioned the General Assembly had supported these universities over the years, but I understand that that support has been dwindling and there new issues now that cause it to be more than .

Ruffin: Well, what we have, Jay, is that over the years we sort of paid of we go. You know, we sort of fixed one roof at a time or one floor at a time as people who are listening would understand. Well, when you do that you have what you call deferred maintenance. And when you have deferred maintenance in your system that deferred maintenance increases in cost and it also escalates. So if you let the maintenance defer for 10 years, at the end of 10 years the small problem you had now is a mammoth problem. So many of the small problems that we thought we had have now escalated into large problems. And as you know, we were mandated by the General Assembly a couple of years ago to do a study of our capital needs. And that study went on and I'll tell you, we spend numerous hours not only studying it but going out and looking at sites. We visited each and every one of our facilities. Every one of the board members on the Board of Governors went on one of the visits and walked through the labs where we had aluminum foil on a table in a lab, saw a building with holes in it - it was raining in the building or saw just awful deferred maintenance.

Holloway: But Mr. Chairman, that's not the same at your alma mater as it would be at a Chapel Hill.

Ruffin: You know, believe it or not, Jay, some of the same problems that we have at historically black institutions, the same kinds of problems occur. I went to UNC-G and UNC-G the lab is an embarrassment. And if you close your eyes and walk to the lab at UNC-G you would assume that you're at A&T. So many of the problems were the same. Now the multiplicity of the problems and the extent of the problems may be not quite as great, but some of the same similar problems at the institutions because of deferred maintenance and UNC-G didn't have any money. Some of the other institutions didn't have any money. Chapel Hill had the same problem, State had the same problem. We found a commonality of problems across. Now I would have to admit to you that on occasions some of the majority institutions might have other funds that the historically black institutions don't have from private sources, from donors, from endowments that historically black schools might not have to take care of some of the new buildings or some of the things that they would like to do in terms of endowing and naming a building after one of the alums. And I think that's a part of our challenge, not to build new buildings, but a part of our challenge, and I'm talking about us - those of us who are black and those of us who went to historically black institutions, that we must give back, that we must help to secure our universities.

Holloway: So you're not saying that they are any less needy but we do know that over the years these institutions have not received the same type of support.

Ruffin: And if you look back at history documents that segregation and racism and other things kept the historically black schools from acquiring the kind of support that they should have acquired. Taxation without representation. You know, Henry Frye was the first, since Reconstruction, and that's a long time to not have any representation in the General Assembly. We had schools but we didn't have any representation. We didn't have any African-American representation. And Henry Frye is a great graduate of A&T State University, one of our historically black schools and how the Chief Justice of the Supreme Court. And he's doing a great job.

Holloway: We're talking with Chairman Ben Ruffin, Chairman of the UNC Board of Governors about funding issues in the UNC system. But since you mentioned segregation, people are probably wondering, this is not the normal Black Issues Forum set. We're on the set of Biographical Conversations. Terry Sanford has been in this seat. Most recently Jesse Helms, Senator Jesse Helms. And most - the most recent one is John Hope Franklin, one of your dear friends. One common thread between all of them has been the impact of race relations on our state. You mentioned segregation. Recently we interviewed Senator Helms and he was asked about was he aware of those segregations and he was talking about in the '30s or '40s he said, I'm quoting Senator Helms here, he says, "I've been asked a number of times about people who think it's terrible and I didn't think it was terrible then." He said, "Nobody thought it was terrible. Not even black folks!" Now there is a big gap. Do you want to respond to that?

Ruffin: I'm a product of racism and segregation. I know what it is to stand outside and go to the back of the bus, crawl upstairs in the theater. It was humiliating. I mean it was just terrible. It was something that, if you didn't go through it, it's hard to understand. And I can't speak for the Senator but if you are black or white and you haven't experienced it, it's something. I was listening to Oscar Robinson the other night talk about how they were treated as basketball players and how they couldn't live in the motels and they couldn't eat even though they were stars on the team. But, you know, we can go back in the past and we can relish the past. But we can learn from the past and we move forward. Isn't it something now for youngsters, black and white, to watch this program and to realize that even in 1990 we have black chairman for the Board of Governors to the University of North Carolina.

Holloway: 2000.

Ruffin: That's right, 2000. That we have an African-American chair for the Board of Governors for the University system. And not so much that he is African-American but that hopefully he is performing and that he is doing a great job so that he will not be the only one but one can come behind him. And that's what I said when I was elected chair. Let's don't allow slavery and racism to cripple us, but let's walk with what we have. And let's do the best with what we have. And let's make accomplishments and achievements so that unborn generations can come behind us, can read about us and can see our works and be challenged by our work.

Holloway: We are aware that we still have some of those issues today of problems with race relations. Some of the HBCUs received some of this hate mail recently in our UNC system. But we talked about this wonderful diversity that we have in our university system. What can you say to our majority viewers that are watching that are maybe scanning the dial now, as to what benefit someone like you brings to a diverse university system like this and can offer that perhaps has not been offered before.

Ruffin: I don't know, I think I bring - Well, first of all you have to look at the Board of Governors is 32 members. And when I was elected there were seven blacks and I did not receive but six of the black votes. So obviously that in itself is a lesson to both majority and minority, of black and white or all races, that we cannot do this alone. I mean I wasn't elected chair by myself or by my vote. I was elected chair by a board of governors of 31 of my peers. And I think, with only six African-American votes. And I massed 17 votes. So that should suggest something to us, that we are moving, that we are breaking down some of these barriers and people are voting for people based on their competence and not based on their color. And I think we have a challenge, those of us who run and who are fortunate enough to gain these positions have a real challenge to work our cans off to make sure that we do the best absolute job in the world. And whole personality is, I have been excluded so my personality is pro-inclusion. So one of the things we did when I went on the board was we decided how we could communicate better with people. We developed a newsletter, to send a newsletter to people to let them know what's going on. We then came back and we had a university report to the people. We were at Western, at Cullowhee, 7:30 in the morning in July. We had 300 people at Cullowhee at a university report to the people. I found out that the former Board of Governors had never been invited back to say thank you for the work that they've done. And they did some great work for this system and for this state. We invited every member of the Board of Governors back and honored them. We had every living chair present. So we have reached out to say to people, "We want you to help us tell the story.

Holloway: All types of people.

Ruffin: Yeah, all types of people. We want you to also help us carry this load. Because we have some loads. We need - that study we were talking about, Jay - we need $6.9 billion over the next ten years to help take care of our facilities. If we're going to get 50,000 additional students in, then they're going to have to live in dorms. They will want cafeterias, they will want modern facilities. They're doing to want to know if the computer, if they can take that computer and hook it up in the dorm. If they can't, then they're going to find another school. So we must prepare or capital needs and compare our universities so that we can compete. When you look around you and we look around us at what's happening in Georgia, in Virginia, in South Carolina and the bordering states to our schools, they're competing for our students. And if we don't do what's required then we will not get those students. And I know that the General Assembly now is, you know, in a little bit of a shortfall. But I'm convinced that once they get through this travesty Down East, that we can depend on them to help us get out of this hole that we are in.

Holloway: Do you think the viewers and the citizens generally across the state understand the need for its public dollars to invest greater in this university system? You've articulated some of the needs but how does that apply to the person that may not have someone in college, you know?

Ruffin: Well, and we don't have but - We have universities at 16, well really not in 16 counties because we have two in Greensboro and we have two in Winston. But a part of the challenge is up to us. We must go out and tell the story. Now they might not have a child in school but I'll bet you they've had a nephew or a niece or a friend to graduate from one of these schools. And I would say to you that they understand the value of the university system. That doesn't mean that we stop battle. It means that every one of us who are alums of these schools must go out and help tell the story. We must meet with the politicians, we must meet with the delegations in our neighborhoods, in our communities and tell them about the needs and tell them about our children, tell them about our aspirations to maintain the best public education system in the whole world in North Carolina. And we must help to build it, we must support it by our own actions, by our own deeds.

Holloway: Also if it's not obvious to many people, UNC-TV is part of this UNC system.

Ruffin: And we're fortunate to have UNC-TV as part of it too.

Holloway: UNC-TV Network, also like other television stations, has to make a transition to digital. UNC-TV's funding proposal, I assume, is part of this whole funding initiative. And I understand that the general public, if this is not funded, we may not have public television in North Carolina come May 2003. Is the Board of Governors aware of this major issue? And how are they proposing, or how is the state gong to fund this issue.

Ruffin: Well Jay, if you had not raised that question, then I would have been real, real disappointed with you. So if I didn't I'd have to answer for it. You'd be very disappointed __________.

Holloway: All right.

Ruffin: And I can tell you that this is something that the President has raised with us as a board. This is something that we've talked with the elected officials about. And this is something that is at the top of our list. And we've gotten assurances from members of the General Assembly, from the Governor own down, or on up, that this is something that we are not going to allow to go unnoticed. And we're going to get this fixed. Public television in this state is a jewel. The kinds of offerings, the kinds of programs that are provided on public television in the state of North Carolina, the instruction is just absolutely fantastic. And you all are able to do many things and to bring many programs in the homes of people that folks could not get out and enjoy. So you have the pledge of the Chairman of the Board of Governors that he is going to work within all the power he has to make sure that we take care of public television.

Holloway: And I think the citizens want to continue to see this service. Another point though, is distance learning. While we at public television play a role in distance learning, there's a whole information technology strategy. Is the University seriously considering using technology if they aren't able to receive all the kinds of funds for the physical facilities and student tuition and faculty salaries and so forth?

Ruffin: Well you know, being in public television you know distance learning is already taking place.

Holloway: That's right.

Ruffin: Your know that Down East, at eastern North Carolina not only distant learning but distant treatment. But they're using public television in eastern North Carolina to treat patients, to instruct patients on public television.

Holloway: Distance learning technology.

Ruffin: Yeah, distance learning technology. And you know that we have courses already on public - and I think that's just going to expand. You know, it's amazing when you think about the number of senior citizens today who are computer literate. And you think about the number of senior citizens - You transfer that to the number of senior citizens who are still hungry for knowledge. And if you put something on television they are going to take that course on TV. Because they want that knowledge. You know, the gardening programs that you have on TV. Just think of the number of people. I watch public television. Just think of the number of people who watch those gardening programs and the other offerings you have. And as you offer more, people are going to do it.

Holloway: We have just less than one minute here. What would be the natural consequence if this funding strategy is not accepted from the public or the General Assembly?

Ruffin: Well, I don't think in the negative really. I mean am convinced, just as convinced as I am sitting here on this set with you today, that the citizens of North Carolina will not allow our public institutions to go without funding. Now we might have to do some creative funding. We might have to do a series of funding activities. But I am certain, and we've gotten a commitment from members of the General Assembly. I'm meeting with the Governor next week with some people. And the Governor is committed to helping us do this. So we are going to get this job done. We just have a slight deferral.

Holloway: Thank you so much. I appreciate you sharing your views and the seriousness of the situation with the public. Thank you for being on Black Issues Forum.

Ruffin: Thank you very much.

Holloway: We've been talking with Ben Ruffin, the first black chairman of the UNC Board of Governors, which governs all of North Carolina's 16 public institutions of higher education. The quality of higher education affects the entire state's economic development and for many African-American communities it's the black college that provides the economic backbone for that community. Throughout the remainder of this season Black Issues Forum will help you to better understand the real impact of these issues on you through our discussions with advocates from all sides. We hope you've - we've accomplished some of that tonight. But we welcome your feedback and questions. So please visit us online at www.unctv.org or call us at 919-549-7167. Thank you for watching. Join us again next Friday night at eleven for another episode of Black Issues Forum. I'm Jay Holloway. You have a blessed evening and a good night. Thank you.

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