1999 - 2000 Broadcast Season
Broadcast Program Transcripts
Episode #1518
Henry Pankey, Principal
February 25, 2000

Holloway: North Carolina is know nationally for our efforts, extraordinary efforts to improve education. Many of our state's education leaders are responsible for us being a model state. You may remember the movie "Lean on Me". Well, tonight, we have a real life principal Joe Clark here. Stay tune next for Black Issues Forum.

Voiceover: This program has been made possible in part by contributions from UNC-TV viewers like you.

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Holloway: Good evening and welcome to Black Issues Forum. I am Jay Holloway, your host. Tonight we're talking about public schools and achievement and school improvement. In February of 2000, Secretary Riley, US Secretary of Education, Richard Riley chose North Carolina to give his seventh annual State of American Education Address. He chose Durham, North Carolina Southern High School to give that address, largely because of tonight's guest. Tonight's guest took his school from a low performing to an exemplary growth school in just one year. Tonight we are happy to welcome the Joe Clark I talked about, but in real life it's Henry Pankey, principal of Southern High School. Thank you for being with us tonight.

That was a tremendous accolade to be chosen nationally as an exemplary school, as an example for the secretary to give his address; but I know that your focus, despite all your success is really on the needs of the children and to make sure that these standards and all these things focus on the real needs of the children. Explain that for me.

Pankey: Well, I believe in standards. We have to have standards and we have to have an instrument to measure the academic achievement of young people. I'm concerned if we focus too much on standards, we forget the real reason for school. The real reason for school is that students learn, but it's more than just taking a test. A child is a total being. We need to look at the total development of a total child. There is a morality issue involved. There is a self-esteem issue involved. The cognitive is what we measure on tests, but we need to make sure that we develop a total human being and not just a one-dimensional machine that can tests.

Holloway: Now I alluded to the Joe Clark "Lean On Me" when I opened here, but you said to me earlier that you can't get away from that. Is any of that movie true in your school?

Pankey: Well, not necessarily in my school because I'm in charge of the school. I mean it's.I don't believe in nonsense. But if you look at urban America and you look at what Joe Clark had to deal with, basically, he was dealing with the influence of the outside world on young people. Many young people in their communities are traumatized by the outside world. Now remember Joe Clark picked up the bat to keep drug dealers from coming into the building and they called him "Crazy Joe." But remember he put the chains on the door to keep the drug dealers out not to keep the young people in.

Holloway: Right.

Pankey: So, I do believe in tough love, but one of the things I tell people is to be very, very careful when they focus. The focus is on love not the toughness. Make decisions based on what in the best interest of children, but don't be so soft that you ignore the outside element. You have to be tough to deal with the streets, and young people go.They live in the streets. They go through the streets. They live in neighborhoods. You have to be tough to deal with the outside elements. I mean if I teach morality-"I should not be weak"-remember my biggest opponent is Jerry Springer. You can't approach a Jerry Springer being soft. So you have to be tough. I'm not a rap artist. I'm a principal, and the focus and the mission is to teach principles. So I'm competing with a lot of other elements but I cannot afford to be soft and underestimate my opponent.

Holloway: I want to talk about some of those principles-the P-L-E-in just a few moments but let's talk about this State of American Education Address that was at your school recently. Secretary Riley came there and he talked about several things. But I imagine anybody who was an educator in this state was there. You had standing room only and it must have been a lot for the state but specifically, for your county, your system and your school.

Pankey: Well, it was a very, very important event and I think the magnet is because of Governor James Hunt. Governor James Hunt is known nationally as the education governor. I lived in New York City for 20 years and even when I was in New York City, when the country talks about education, the country talks about Governor James Hunt. Student achievement in the state of North Carolina has increased dramatically. The recruitment of teachers, raising the pay of teachers, the focus on safe schools-that's because of the leadership of Governor Hunt. The focus on Southern High School is because of the leadership of the students, the leadership of the parents, the community and the teachers. I've always said, and I'll say it again, "We is much stronger than me."

Holloway: Well, we want to take a look now at some of the things Secretary Riley had to say at this American Education Address 2000. This is just the program from that. And he's got.we chose three clips here. We're going to take a look at that and come back and talk about some of these principles and some of your secrets to success for high student achievement and school success. This is.these are some clips from U.S. Secretary of Education Richard Riley at Southern High School.

[BEGIN CLIP FROM SECRETARY RILEY]

[APPLAUSE]

Riley: Thank you. A quality education for every child is the new civil right for the 21^st century. The great promise of higher standards is that they will allow us to move the children on the back row now to the front row. And I mean all children-children with disabilities or the most recent immigrant from Central America who is struggling to learn English. That's why there can be no slow down. There can be no moratorium when it comes to putting high standards in place.

At the same time, we must not make the mistake of reducing our effort to raise standards to a blame-and-shame game: blaming schools for not doing enough, shaming students and teachers and parents for the lack of progress. The ultimate success of this effort depends on our teachers and principles, our school boards and school superintendents, and it requires us to go the extra mile to make sure that parents understand and support their efforts. State leaders and educators need to listen hard to legitimate concerns, involve the entire community and avoid here's the test, top-down approach of putting assessments in place.

I also firmly believe in standards for promotion and for graduation. I am, however, deeply concerned that places where ending social promotion is a hurried response to political pressure, rather than a well-conceived plan for achieving success, is done the wrong way. [APPLAUSE] Setting standards in January and testing in June is not realistic nor fair. [APPLAUSE] Promotion standards must be phased in sensibly, not rushed and this is a step-by-step process.

[END CLIP FROM SECRETARY RILEY]

Holloway: Step-by-step process, ending social promotion, you can't put these standards in in January and expect to.but you did a major turn-around in just one year. Are some of your secrets not so secret because you're doing what the Secretary just mentioned or can you respond to that?

Pankey: Now, success is not a secret. I mean we know what we must do in school. A school, first of all, you must have specific goals and a specific mission. You must have a safe and orderly environment. You must have character education. It is also important to motivate young people. There are some things that you have to do across the board. One, you must teach the curriculum because the curriculum is what's tested. In North Carolina we have a standard course of study. The standard course of study is what the State goes to to develop the standardized tests. So first you must teach the curriculum. But if you teach the curriculum you must have an environment where teachers can teach and students can learn.

Holloway: We're talking with Henry Pankey, principal of Southern High School, which was just the site of the 7^th Annual State of American Education Address with Secretary Riley. When you think about these-student performance, ending social promotion-this widening gap between minority student achievement and other whites is still not closing as fast as we want it. What are your thoughts on closing that gap?

Pankey: Well, there is a major problem there with the achievement of minority students and, realistically and candidly, I think we need to do a better job. We are just not doing the job that we should do, but I think we are making progress. There are some things that the minority community can do and should do and its not a secret. One, we need to make sure that all students have access to books. Literacy is critical. We need to provide a nurturing environment-the entire community and the school system. We need to understand the social and psychological development of minority students. We need to discipline policies and expectations are clear. Expectations are high and we treat young people as if the expectations are high.

Black students need to carry hard notebooks that are well-organized. And, candidly, I was a New York City principal before I moved to the South and my first day at school in New York City and here is that 50% didn't have anything in their hands. That's a fact. No notebook, no paper, no pencil.

Holloway: So, we need to talk to the parents right now. I guess they heard that, but what can you say specifically to them? I would guess being really involved in their child's life and school, some of these other things would come naturally. Is there a correlation between the two?

Pankey: There is a correlation. One thing I don't want to do is the blame game. I can blame the parents. And the parents can blame the child. And we can blame the school. And then we can blame racism. But I want a team effort, collaboration. In the elementary schools, if your child.you make sure your child goes to school, a paper and a pencil. Around middle school it kind of drops off. You are very heavily involved in kindergarten and elementary schools. In middle schools you begin to slack off. In high school you begin to say the young man is a man. A young man, sixteen years old, is not a man. He is sixteen years old and he's going to make the mistakes of sixteen year-olds. He's not going to clean his room. He's not going to study. He's going to spend a lot of time with sports if he's an average young man, with the videos and with other teen-agers. We have to set the structure and the guidance that young people need. At thirty years-old, a young man will look back and say, "Thank-you for what you did."

Somebody is not paying attention if young men are coming to school with their pants hanging down below the butt and you can see the butt. Now I constantly say, "The pants are so low the wind blow, the butt whistle." [LAUGHTER FROM HOLLOWAY] There is no way a child leaves home, and pants hanging down below their butt, and going up and down the streets, and the child doesn't belong to anybody.

Holloway: So what do you do when you see that in your school?

Pankey: Well, now, you don't come to my school.

Holloway: You don't.

Pankey: No.

Holloway: You won't see it?

Pankey: No, no. You can't come to school. You can't come to school without a notebook, paper and pencil. You have to wear your pants up. You have to wear a belt, tie your shoes and tuck your shirts in. But they do it.

Holloway: Is that an official dress-code policy at your school or is it.is it official, or people just.

Pankey: It's the law.

Holloway: It's the law. [CHUCKLES]

Pankey: And its not bendable.

Holloway: Alright. Let's talk about this digital divide too because there's a correlation between the achievement and access to this information age and computers. Secretary Riley mentioned that Henry Lewis Gates said that we're about to be in cyber-segregation if we don't watch out.

Pankey: Well, again, it comes down to a values issue and that is an issue where I would like to collaborate with parents. I don't want to tell parents what to do because I work with parent. Basically, they tell me what to do. But look at the divide. Many of the young people who don't have computers have the little games, the video games. So, a lot of money is spent on foolishness. You can put a computer on lay-away.

Now Tony Brown talked about the danger of not having computers in every home. I read the newspapers. Before I go to work I can read three, four or five newspapers. I can pull information off the computer early in the morning. The world has changed and its not going to go backwards. The days of looking up words and research papers and books and going from place to place can take all day long. On the computer you can do it in five minutes, in three minutes. We cannot compete with the world where a principal, like me and other principals, are telling young people bring a notebook to school and they don't want to bring a notebook to school. And the competition is carrying $2,500 lap-top computers to school. We will not compete.

Holloway: Who's the competition?

Pankey: Well, I've seen the competition in urban America. I've seen it in Durham. We have students who carry lap-top computers and we have students who carry scraps of paper. You're out of business. There is no contest.

Holloway: That's right. Let's talk about the teacher now. A lot of folks say that what really matters most is having a good, quality teacher in the classroom. Is that consistent with your view and how important is a good, quality teacher in this mix we're talking about?

Pankey: Well, you know the funny thing is is I'm a very, very strong supporter of teachers. Teachers do a much, much better job than many people might think. But the teaching process involves the whole community, not just the classroom teacher. Again, everybody must be involved in this process. I'm the principal, the assistant principal, the counselors, the teacher's assistants, the cafeteria, the bus driver.but the first teacher for a child is the parent. So when we talk about teachers, let's include everybody. Everybody that's involved in the life of a child is a teacher. The community is a teacher. The curriculum is not just in books. The curriculum includes the entire environment, and the entire environment should be positive.

Holloway: Do you think there's much relevance in the fact that you're an African-American male principal and that would make a difference in enforcing discipline and leadership in a school, particularly a high school, versus a female?

Pankey: No. I think no because some of my best role models were female teachers. Some of the people who beat me upside the head the most, they were female teachers. Actually, the male teachers didn't beat me upside the head. My momma beat me upside the head. My grand.actually, when I think about women, everybody beat me upside the head. [LAUGHTER FROM HOLLOWAY] So, I don't think so. I think a good educator is not racial. It doesn't have to do with gender. But it does have to do with compassion and it does have to do with understanding what the education process is. The issue is standards, not gender and not color.

Holloway: Our state has been struggling with this ranking in SAT, but we know we have improved quite a bit. We're still coming up. The 8^th grade test, I think, is where a lot of the improvement has been. But I guess there still is a lot more improvement to be done. What advice do you have now to other communities across the state? And we talked about some of the things, that they are no real secrets, but what is on the whole? Do you think its systematic for the whole state and the school system or is it school by school?

Pankey: Well, there are some things that are built into the system. In the state of North Carolina the standard course of study is systematic. There are no ifs, ands or buts about it. And a lot of times we argue about systematic versus something else. But remember everybody takes the same SAT. And everybody takes the same exam in the state of North Carolina. But then you have to look at the individual needs of the individuals schools, and they are different. Then you have to look at the individual needs of the individual child, and every child is different. So we do have some global issues that are systematic that we need to look at. But we have some individual issues that involve individual schools, individual communities, and those decisions should be based on local decisions, local values, site-based decisions within the confines of each school. Each school is different, but the test is the same. So we need to be careful.

Holloway: Do you think the approach that we're doing in North Carolina is the right approach, with the ABCs and excellent schools?

Pankey: Well, the best example is I pretty much had a career choice of where I wanted to move, where I wanted to live, and where I wanted to work. And I deliberately chose North Carolina. I think the system is very, very good. You must be able to measure what students know. You should be able to measure what students are able to do. Then, in terms of morality and character education, there needs to be a decision: what type of citizens do you want?

Holloway: Well, let's talk about this whole morality in education issue. You talked a little bit about the pants issue, but when we talk about the African-American male there's a lot of negative images out there. And people say to me a lot in the community, "Jay, you need to do more positive things." Well, we've got a positive role model on this show right now. What do you say to those parents, teachers, principals, who may not admit it but have this stereotype about this African-American male high school student, teen-ager that they just don't know what to do with?

Pankey: Well, the reality is many people don't know what to do. I'm not interested in beating up on African-American males. I can tell you situations where African-American males and females sleep on their floors because they're traumatized by some of their neighborhoods. I don't know an African-American male that's not afraid of an Uzi, an AK47, a 9 mm and I don't know any who want to go to the hospital or get hurt. Or the 10,000 African-American males who are killed every year in this country.I don't know any African-American male who wants to be part of that statistic. I do know African-American males who want to do well, but everybody needs a strong support system. And everybody needs people who are willing to provide guidance. The needs of African-American males, when you really think about it, are exactly the needs of most children. When a baby is born, a baby needs exactly the same thing. They need nurturing. They need guidance. They need a mother. And they need a father. They need a good socio-economic situation. They need to know literacy. They need to be read to. They need to know values. They need discipline. Now, if you begin to take those things away from any child, any child, you're going to have a dysfunctional child. I think we kind of miss it. There is a reality that needs to be dealt with, but the solution is the same for all children.

Holloway: In just our closing moments here, let's talk about Henry Pankey, the individual. You didn't say in the program but you told me prior to coming on, you're a native North Carolinian. You talked about coming here, but I guess you were in New York for 20 years or so. How have you found North Carolina different now than it was when you left here 20 years ago?

Pankey: Well, remember now, I was principal of one of the most violent schools in New York City history. As a matter of fact, it was number five. I found North Carolina to be a very, very supportive environment for me. And remember, I brought back to the South a lot of new ideas. I'm very, very determined and very serious about the improvement of education. In Durham public schools, candidly, I've received so much support it is unbelievable. And the individuals who support me the most are children. So people about what children.we have Dress for Success. They volunteer and do it. Now the dress code is.you know, there is no issue about that. You have to do it. Young people are very nice. They are mannerly. They are polite. They are not what everybody told me they are.

Holloway: So you treat it with respect and they give you respect?

Pankey: Respect is earned many times. It would be very, very hard for me to express how pleased I am with the support that I have received from the Durham community, the teachers, the parents and the students. You have no idea how much young people want leadership and guidance and how much they beg for it. And a lot of the noise that you hear is a little child inside of a big child saying, "Help me."

Holloway: Give us an example of one of your programs that you think some of the other schools or school systems around our state can replicate, just in less than a minute or two.

Pankey: Well, I believe in a dress code. I believe Dress for Success is right. I believe the schools should do something together once a day. For me, we do the Pledge of Allegiance. I think you should walk to the right. I think you should have a hard notebook. It should be organized. You should write the learning objective everyday. You should say good morning, please, may I, thank-you. You should raise your hand to talk. You should sit your butt down in the cafeteria and have congenial conversation. We're not rap artists. As a principal, I'm not a rap artist. My job is not to be popular. My job is to provide guidance, positive self-esteem, so young people can reclaim their pride, dignity and self-respect.

Holloway: Well, I tell you, you've done quite a bit there and it reminds me of a book that was out--all you need to know is everything you learned in pre-school or kindergarten. Some of those things of what you just mentioned are really basic. And so if people would just return to the basics, I guess you're saying, and insist on that, they could have some of the same successes that you've had at Southern High School.

Pankey: Return to the basics of loving children unconditionally and unconditionally, they don't have to love you back. And make all decisions based on what's in the best interest of children, not what's popular.

Holloway: Once again I'd like to thank you, Principal Henry Pankey, for joining us and congratulations on all of your success at Southern High School in Durham.

Pankey: Thank-you.

Holloway: Thank-you for being with us so much this evening. Thanks to Principal Henry Pankey at Southern High School and thank-you for joining us. If you'd like more information on many of these issues that we talked about tonight on Black Issues Forum, we're going to give you information on how to contact us-telephone numbers, fax numbers, email addresses, as well as our web-site at the end of the program. Please contact us. We'll let you know more about these issues and how to contact Principal Pankey as well.

Also, we'd like to remind you once again that next Friday night on Black Issues Forum, every Friday night at 11:00, this coming Friday we'll talk more about public schools again, but this time about the history of integration of our public schools in North Carolina. We'll be talking with two Raleigh natives, Mayor of Atlanta, Bill Campbell and also Air Force retired Colonel Joe Holt. That's next Friday night at 11:00 on UNC-TV's Black Issues Forum.

You have a blessed evening and good night. I'm Jay Holloway for Black Issues Forum.

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