1999 - 2000 Broadcast Season
Broadcast Program Transcripts
Episode #1521
CIAA Commissioner Leon Kerry
March 17, 2000

Holloway: The CIAA Basketball Tournament is one of the largest of the country, and it's in North Carolina for a second time. We'll see it through the eyes of two persons, next on UNC-TV's Black Issues Forum. Stay tuned.

Voiceover: This program is made possible in part by contributions from UNC-TV viewers like you.

[THEME MUSIC]

Holloway: Good evening and welcome to another edition of Black Issues Forum. I'm Jay Holloway, your host. Good evening and welcome. Tonight we're talking about the CIAA. Many of you know what we're talking about, but just in case you don't, it's the Central Intercollegiate Athletic Association, and it's one of the most successful and largest in the country. And tonight we're happy to have its Commissioner, first, Leon Kerry, welcome to Black Issues Forum.

Kerry: Thank you.

Holloway: And also, Tournament Committee member and host, and about ten other titles, George, we know him as Pup, Williams. Thank you for being with us as well.

Williams: Thank you, Jay. Appreciate it.

Holloway: Let's talk first to those people that may not know about the CIAA and the impact, it's history, first. Commissioner, let's start with you.

Kerry: Well, the CIAA is 88 years old, established in 1912. It's the oldest historically black conference in America. A lot of rich history, and this is the 55^th anniversary of the men's tournament, and I tell everybody that the reason the history is so rich is because, before integration, people knew they were going to college, but they knew it was going to be a CIAA school. And when you look around at most of the HBCC on the east coast, they belonged to the CIAA at one point in time.

Holloway: Now, Coach Williams, you, for those that are into athletics and track and field, people must know you, but just in case they don't, you're the head men's track coach and athletic director at St. Augustine's College. You've won almost every track championship, internationally and nationally, that anybody could ever know. But you are the host, this year, St. Augustine's, I guess, and Shaw, are hosting the CIAA basketball tournament, which was held in Raleigh in 2000 and will be for the next two or three years, right?

Williams: About two years.

Holloway: Talk about the impact that you think this is having on North Carolina by having it in Raleigh, and where it is.

Williams: Well, it's a great impact on Raleigh, and it was a great one on Winston-Salem. The financial impact is going to be outstanding, but the relaxation, and what the City of Raleigh has to give the CIAA, and what the CIAA has to give to the City of Raleigh, is a good team effort. And that's what it's all about. I would like to say to the City of Raleigh, they pulled together as one to bring this outstanding event into this city. And now the City of Raleigh, as one, will benefit from this outstanding event in Raleigh, and this is what it's all about, and this is what this world is about. This is what North Carolina is about. And as time passes, and we hope we have the CIAA here forever, then you'll see what the CIAA is all about, because it will always be as one. And, you know, we talk about a historical black event right now, but, you know, it would be an event for each and every one to be able to come and enjoy an event and a festivity of great basketball.

Holloway: And we're talking somewhere in the neighborhood of at least an $8 million dollar impact, per year, on this Triangle area, and the same for Winston-Salem when it was there, is that right?

Kerry: I think that's underestimated, and it's kind of hard to measure in Winston-Salem because we're so spread out. We were in Winston-Salem, High Point, Greensboro, all over, so when we left Richmond, the economic impact was $12 million dollars.

Holloway: Boy!

Kerry: When we went to Winston-Salem, because it was so spread out, I think it was underestimated, but let's use a round number, $8 million dollars, as the economic. I think it's going to be much more than that. I think that we have more people in this new arena, they're excited. The cost of doing business has gone up tremendously since, since Winston, really, so I think it's a little bit more than that, but it's going to be a good impact on this area.

Holloway: Let's talk. The CIAA office is based in Virginia. Coach Williams is, has basically been a North Carolinian ever since you moved here to go to St. Augustine's College. But people of North Carolina have wanted this tournament to come here for a long time, and finally it is, and it's here, and it's in a very nice arena and a nice facility. From your own stories and point of view, people may not have had a chance to meet you guys, tell us in your own way and own story, how it finally got back to North Carolina.

Kerry: Well, I think it ran its tenure in Virginia. I think that it went Richmond, it went to Norfolk, came back to Richmond. But when you think about it, it just got a little bit of fair play. It was in Greensboro forever, before Greensboro, I think it was even in Winston-Salem before that.

Holloway: Sixties and seventies?

Kerry: Probably back in the early sixties. So it was time. It ran it's course in North Carolina, almost, probably twenty years, maybe even more than that, before it went to Virginia for seventeen years. And now we're back on North Carolina. The thing that got us in Winston-Salem was the arena. It was a new arena, it was camera ready, had six thousand lower level seats. It was just a different place, a new place. With the majority of schools located in North Carolina, it was the right thing to do. Coming here, approximately twelve thousand lower level seats, brand new arena, same thing, and we feel that Raleigh may be the heartbeat for CIAA because most of the schools are within two and a half hours driving distance. We did survey, and in the survey, it said that in a 90-mile radius, we had 20,000 alumni. We are trying to get the students involved in it. We've found that we had three types of fans. We have the fans that are alumni, who attended CIAA schools. We have the student fans, and we have the fans who didn't attend CIAA schools.

Holloway: They come anyway?

Kerry: Yes, right. Good basketball, good fun. So we're trying to attract those fans. We need the fans that are really the 18 to 21 and 21 to 35, because we believe that's our future. And the things that we've done this year have been a little bit different. We did the job fair for our students. We've got concerts, step shows, we had those in Winston-Salem, too. We've sold lower-level student tickets. We went onto campuses to pump students to participate in the CIAA, and it's been successful.

Holloway: Let me ask Coach Williams. The CIAA is a major event. We've heard a lot about it, but one of its founders just recently passed, in 1999, and you were a coach and a player in the CIAA. Tell us about Coach Mac.

Williams: Well, Coach Mac was a gentleman and a scholar from the first. He was a person that traveled all over the world, and if you met Coach Mac today, you probably would never had known that he was such an outstanding person. Coach Mac helped design some of the basketball plays that you see now on the four corners.

Holloway: Talking about the Dean Smith.

Williams: .stalling the ball, and everything. And Dean Smith will let you know that Coach Mac was one of the greatest basketball coaches in history, ever. And he was the type of person that was never a stranger, and if anybody wanted to learn. I always ate breakfast with him in big house games and sit down. I coached basketball one year, and I had to call on Coach Mac. I said, "Coach Mac, I've got to take the basketball team over. I need your help and assistance." He came by, he helped me with my practice, he gave me a book to show me about things and discipline and how you should run a good basketball program. And I won the Western Division Championship in my first year, but it was just a little too much on me and I quit. But I still feel that Coach Mac is still here. It's hard for me to understand that he's not here. I did not, I wasn't able to get to the funeral because I was out of the country at the time, and that's what makes me feel that he's still here. I talked to his wife-I get a little choked up when I talk about Coach Mac-I mean, I guess anybody who's ever been to a CIAA, who's ever played the game of basketball in the CIAA, would feel the same way that I do about Coach Mac. You know, a lot of people say there's no replacement for guys like that, and so his legacy still goes on. His knowledge is still here because I think everybody in CIAA, who ever played the game, who ever coached the game, has been touched by Coach Mac. So Coach Mac is right here with us today.

Holloway: Well, let me just say, he was the co-founder, one of the co-founders, and up until his passing in October of '99, he was the last living co-founder, and the last living person who studied the game under the founder of basketball, James Nasmith. But Commissioner, he wasn't afraid to address tough issues. One of the issues that I know he addressed was.He made a major impact on race relations through athletics, and one of the things that I think he wanted you all to address, and I want you to address in just a second, is the CIAA becoming interracial. But I want to take a break now, and take a listen to Coach Mac, because we interviewed him when the tournament first came to Winston-Salem. And he's going to tell us a little bit about his impact on race relations, and so let's look right now at Coach John B. McLyndon interview about three years ago.

[TAPED SEGMENT OF MCLYNDON]]

McLyndon: .When I told them, Francis, that in Kansas when I was coming up, you could not allow a black man to teach white people's children. It's a state law, and it wasn't reversed, though. So it does sound crazy to you and to me, although I've been through it. So I think, when I say that and the students and people look at me with disbelief, that's a sign of the improvement in race relations. We've come farther than where we were, because you can't believe where you've been.I would suggest that it's time for us to go interracial. It's Colored Intercollegiate Athletic Association, when I was in 1945. And the first conference in the United States to go interracial is the Gulf Coast Conference, and they included Dillard, and Xavier, and Southern University of New Orleans, and they've been interracial for about ten years. And they've done a great job in race relations through that athletic relationship. And it's, I think that would be, should be, one of our next goals. I'm not speaking for the CIAA because I'm not in a speaking position. I'm speaking, really, here as one of the surviving founders, and where the CIAA might go. And I definitely think there are schools in Virginia and North Carolina that would be happy to be a part of the CIAA, but we have to extend them an invitation. Now that is not a, that may not be a popular idea, but I think it's a good idea, just the same.

[END TAPED SEGMENT]

Holloway: That's Coach John B. McLyndon. He wasn't afraid to address the tough issues, one of the co-founders there. Have we, has the CIAA pursued that, and have you considered inviting any other white teams into the tournament?

Kerry: No we haven't pursued it, but it has come up as a board discussion, and I think that if a school had applied, or applied to CIAA, I don't think it would be an issue. I think what he's saying, "What you do today, tomorrow is another avenue. You have to be open," and we have an open board. I think you can look at Dave Robbins as a white coach, look at Boyd Slate, who's a white coach. You know, we've had all CIAA players - Mike Smith, who was at Norfolk State, Union had a few. I think as people begin to adjust to CIAA. I think the frightening word when you say historically black. It doesn't mean bad. It doesn't mean anti-white. It just means that's the history where it came from.

Holloway: Coach, how do you think the fans would deal with that, if the tournament stretched out from its roots?

Williams: I think our fans can adapt to anything. It's not a fan issue. It's the situation of what is happening then and now, you know. Back in the day, when I went to college, my mother would probably have said, when the University of Kansas called me, "You can't go to Kansas, you know. You've got to go to a historically black college." But times have changed, and there are people from St. Aug that went to school with me. T. Reed, who loved St. Aug to death, but when it's time for J.R. Reed go to school, they sent him to Carolina. You see what I'm saying? So time changes, and things change, and the fans will still be loyal CIAA fans, regardless of who's there. And maybe we might have to open up the arena a little more, but you don't lose fans for an event and a great basketball tournament. And right now, talking about interracial, we've got an interracial group there now. You look up there. It's not all black people sitting in the stands. You see what I'm saying? It's a lot of people having fun at the CIAA. But for another conference, as the Commissioner said, we'd like to bring another team in, we'll check it out, see what value they have to bring to us. I'm quite sure the board would do that and see what kind of revenue it could bring into the CIAA. Just to bring people in, it's not about race. It's about economics.

Kerry: I agree one hundred percent. When you look at the officials we've picked, we've had a mixed group of officials for over 32 years, okay?

Holloway: Before it was the other way around?

Kerry: That's correct. Football and basketball. We've got a group out of Petersburg, and they're great officials. There not there because they're white, but because they're good officials, okay? When you look at the coaching staff, the same thing. And I think the key thing is-can they play basketball? Can they sell tickets? Do they play football? Those the key issues.

Holloway: Well, speaking of football, not all of your schools have football programs, and the CIAA is not all about just basketball. But let's talk about the wider impact. I know you've got one of the top track teams in the country, and coaches in the world.

Kerry: Well, and I want to say this about George, George was an old CIAA basketball player. People don't know that. They think he ran track, but he was an old CIAA basketball player. He came in as a guard. But let's talk about it. You know, we did some things ten years ago. We dropped the football championship, kind of hurt us as far as football was concerned, we're going to bring it back. We had the Pioneer Bowl, we're going to try to move that closer to this area that we control. We're going to do an East and West Division of football and try to bring and make football.Football is still a viable entity within the CIAA. Now, yes, three schools don't play. The only reason they don't play is because they've been grandfathered in. Anybody else coming to the CIAA has to play football, but what caliber football does the CIAA play? Ask ______, ask ______ Coach. You know, we're there. Look at Willy Lanier or Art Shell, you know, let's go back a little further. When you think about Jim Brown, Jim Brown's blocking back was Leroy Kelly who came out of Morgan State. When Jim Brown left, it was Leroy Kelly, you know, so football is here. I still say football is the best kept secret. Most of the guys go in as defensive backing linemen, because of their skills and their speed. But football is here and we're going to do some things to explore or excite the fans and try to make football just as exciting as basketball.

Holloway: George, let me ask you, St. Aug's is one of the host schools for the basketball tournament this year and for the next couple of years in North Carolina. But we're right in the middle, and Commissioner respond to this too, of ACC country too, but this is CIAA country. How does the CIAA continue to thrive in such media dominated ACC country?

Williams: Well, you know, this is our first time here in Raleigh, and I've been very pleased with the media. The media has really jumped in and done a great job with the CIAA. And this is ACC country, but the media has given us equal time, and that is the most important factor that you can find. And I know last night they had the game on between Georgia Tech and UNC, but the CIAA has its.I mean, when you looked at the eleven o'clock news, the CIAA was there. And so it's all, it's a team effort, you know, and like I said, it's not one person ever, it's a whole team. And the City of Raleigh has done a super job up to now.

Holloway: It hasn't always been this way. The CIAA hasn't always gotten the kind of coverage that the.

Kerry: It hasn't. And I'll tell you one thing, we're not competing with the ACC. We're here. Raleigh could be the basketball capital of this area with the ACC and CIAA. Do we want some of the ACC fans? Yes, because we play great basketball too. The media coverage here has been exceptional. In my ten years as commissioner, I don't think I've ever received this type of coverage, and that's what you have to have. There's no greater marketing tool than TV, and then next is newsprint. People watch TV, and getting to the point where CIAA games are on, TV has been difficult because it's a Division II conference. But we're there. We're ranked with some of the 1-AA as far TV is concerned. But has it been a struggle? Yes. Is life a struggle? Yes, but we're going to do it. You know, when I look back at this year and all the partners, corporate America, white corporate America.

Holloway: Name them for us, the big ones.

Kerry: Well let's talk about one. And you might not like this but it's Capital Broadcasting. Mr. Goodman.

Holloway: Yeah, he's on our board here.

Kerry: Yeah. Hundreds of thousands of dollars into the scholarship committee.

Holloway: Boy, that's great.

Kerry: And I mean that's what makes the ______ league great. It's that type of commitment to the scholarship fund and to keep CIAA on the road. And look at Rex Healthcare.

Holloway: Yeah, you said scholarship fund. Is that for student athletes or general athletes.? I mean general .

Kerry: That's all athletes . I mean all students.

Holloway: Well listen, I'm glad you.I want to bring that up. We've just got about five minutes left. Let's talk about the students and their impact and how this tournament and this conference affects the students. You wanted to talk about that.

Kerry: Well yeah, students are very important, you know. Starting off today, we have the Student Day, this is Student Day. And we have a couple motivational speakers in, just all for the students. We're recruiting students. We're not recruiting athletes. We're recruiting students. Okay, number one. And we're going to bring them in, they're going to visit recruiters, they're going to lunch. Then they're going on to see the tournament..invited to the tournament games, okay. Once we recruit them as students and educate them, this year we got a job fare. Over 400 students attend the job fair. The thing that makes CIAA important is that corporate America, our sponsors, tend to pick our kids for positions and giving them their starting point. I think Gary Azore, Vice-President of Coca Cola North America, said it best. He said what he likes about the kids in CIAA is that they're coming to get an education so they can get a job and be more productive in society. And that's our mix. And all types of kids, it's a plus for us.

Holloway: George, you have a reputation of having the kind of rapport with the students and you're still on the campus at St. Augustine's. Talk about how you see student involvement in this tournament and the impact of this on helping students to go to school and get an education.

Williams: Well our students at St. Augustine's College have done, I mean, they were packed there last night. And it was a good plus for the team. I mean, we find tickets from everywhere and we took tickets from people who had purchased tickets and who could not make it on Wednesday and we helped the students with those tickets. And we had recruits in here, students. We had a little high school challenge for them last night over at the Marriott Suites. And so we have, we are all working on students. Every institution in the CIAA is working on students. And you have to use your best tool to recruit with. And, you know, and so our best tools right now is the CIAA basketball tournament.

Holloway: Now speaking of another one, you are also head men's tracks coach. And you are also host of another major tournament that's coming. It happens to be a CIAA school and your primary sport. You want to talk about that briefly?

Williams: Yes. St. Augustine's College is hosting the NCAA Division II track and field championship, here in Raleigh. And that's why I was saying, you mentioned Mr. Goodman. Mr. Goodman's a great man. He helps. And I talked with his committee, and they went behind us and the City of Raleigh one hundred percent to bring this tournament in here. And there's other revenues that the City will receive. Because of the fact of these people on the committee. And so this is why we're saying that Raleigh has taken a step forward to really create a dynasty here for the CIAA and the ACC.

Holloway: Just less than a minute Commissioner. We have a lot of people viewing in Charlotte. And I know Charlotte has been fighting to get this tournament as well. What can you say to the folks in Charlotte? Is it realistic that they may get this tournament one day soon?

Kerry: I think anything is possible. But if things continue to be as profitable and as exciting as they have been in Raleigh, it's going to be tough. But we keep the doors open always.

Holloway: Any final comments, just 30 seconds here, that you all would like to say to the folks of North Carolina?

Kerry: I'd like to say thanks for inviting the CIAA into the Raleigh area. We look for many years of fun and basketball in the area and come out and watch CIAA and enjoy the fun and the festivities.

Holloway: And tickets will be on sale this summer and throughout for the next.2001 and 2002.

Kerry: We're going to try to put tickets out early.

Williams: I would like to say as an international person and a national person, there's no question that North Carolina is one of the greatest states, is the greatest state in the world. And definitely Raleigh is the greatest city in the world.

Holloway: Alright. You got the last word. Thank you both gentlemen, good ______ men for being on the program. And I want to thank you for watching. I'm Jay Holloway and this has been Black Issues Forum. We've been talking about the CIAA with Coach George Williams and Commissioner Leon Kerry of the CIAA. If you'd like more information on this conference, you can call us. The number will be appearing on your screen as well as the web site information, mailing information. And also contact us there and we'd be happy to give you more information and link you to their web site. And also we want to remind you to continue to join us every Friday night at 11:00 right here on Black Issues Forum. For the entire crew here, I'm Jay Holloway. You have a blessed evening and a good night.

[END OF TAPE]