1999 - 2000 Broadcast Season
Broadcast Program Transcripts
Episode #1527
Funding for Public Higher Education
April 28, 2000

Holloway: Our special coverage on funding for public higher education and why you should care continues. Perspective from the chancellors from North Carolina A&T State University and UNC-Chapel Hill up next on Black Issues Forum, stay tuned.

Voice Over: This program is made possible in part by contributions from UNC-TV viewers like you.

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Holloway: You may already be aware that one of the most critical issues facing our state's citizens is the issue of funding the state's public universities, especially in the wake of the 50,000 new student influx expected over the next decade. We've been talking over the last couple of weeks with Chancellors from the University of North Carolina constituent institutions to help inform you on what the issues are and what impact future decisions will bear upon you. Last week we spoke with Chancellors from Elizabeth City State University and UNC Charlotte, tonight I'd like to welcome our guest first Dr. James Renick Chancellor of North Carolina A&T State University and also Bill McCoy: Interim Chancellor of the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill. We'll talk to them in a moment, but actually we will talk to you right now briefly because both of you are fairly new, Chancellor Renick and Chancellor McCoy:, Interim, right now. Tell us a little bit about who you are where you came from before we get into these issues. Chancellor Renick let's start with you.

Renick: Well most recently we're coming from Michigan. I was the Chancellor of the University of Michigan, the Dearborn Campus, for six and a half years. So we've been in North Carolina for about eight months and we like it here quite a bit and we like our role and scope at North Carolina A&T.

Holloway: Well you have a great institution and I know you're happy to be there. We're happy to have you in North Carolina.

Renick: I am. Thank you.

Holloway: Chancellor McCoy:, you are not new to North Carolina or the university system but tell our viewers a little bit about you.

McCoy:: Well I'd be glad to, I'm a native of eastern North Carolina, the town of Snow Hill. Went to school at UNC Chapel Hill and after that had a career in the Telecommunications business. Retired from that at the end of 1994 and came to work as the Vice President for Finance for the University of North Carolina system. I did that for about four years and had stepped down from that job when I was asked to take the job as Interim Chancellor.

Holloway: Pretty soon now, I guess, the University of North Carolina Chapel Hill will have a new permanent Chancellor.

McCoy:: I believe so. The search committee is hard at work right now. They have, as you would imagine, a good number of applicants for that job. I would expect them to make the announcement reasonably soon.

Holloway: Well let's move into our issues here and we want to find out about more of the issues now that the university system is going through. But in order to get a better understanding of funding needs and repair and renovations of the 16 campuses that make up the University of North Carolina, as well as the needs of the community colleges, Mitch Lewis has this report on the first meeting of the Legislative Joint Select Committee on Higher Education. Let's take a look. We'll be right back.

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M: There is probably no greater an issue confronting our people at this time than the investment we have in higher education in North Carolina, protecting the investment that has been placed there by those who came before us, also to protect those that are to come to receive their education in our state. So I think that's our charge and that's why we are here.

M: The future of our higher education system I think is directly intertwined with the economic and the cultural history of our state. If we do a good job taking care of our University needs I think our state, and our nation really, will be far the better for it.

Lewis: Those statements set the stage for today's session of the Joint Select Committee on Higher Education Facility Needs. The committee was created in 1999 when the State House and Senate were unable to agree on the best way to repair and build classrooms, labs and other facilities at state universities and community colleges.

Ben Ruffin, Chairman of the UNC Board of Governors, urged the committee to come to a quick resolution to what is a dire need in North Carolina.

Ruffin: We recognize it as a major and a top priority for the state. Because as we look at the economic engine for North Carolina, we believe in many instances it has been driven by the education engine, working together as a partnership in North Carolina. So to not do what's right, what's needed for higher education in North Carolina not only cripples higher education in North Carolina, but it cripples our economic engine in North Carolina

Lewis: UNC President Molly Broad told the group, the 16 UNC campuses are ranked among the top institutions of higher education in the country for utilizing space, but there isn't much room left to accommodate students or faculty.

Broad: We have needs of $6.9 billion dollars. As I mentioned and noted in the red color, $3 billion of it is for repair and rehabilitation of existing facilities. About $1.6 billion is necessary to accommodate future capacity and the remaining $2.3 billion for research facilities, for residence halls and for specialty kinds of space that our campuses will need to serve the enrollment of the future.

Lewis: President Broad went on to say the University's capital needs are equal to the full value of all University of North Carolina buildings. Consultant Eva Klein, who conducted the Capital Needs Study for the University, says the longer action is delayed, the value of the building's becomes lower.

Klein: On a system-wide level, by national measures, your campuses are in poor condition, and worse still if I take out the dormitories and all the non-appropriated facilities and I look just at the appropriated core academic buildings, their current value is $4 billion. We are losing value at the rate of 2% a year or about $80 million dollars a year of building value.

Lewis: North Carolina Community College President, Martin Lancaster says, the state's 59 community colleges serve nearly 800,000 students each year, but problems of leaky roofs, asbestos and storage space are hampering the education process.

Lancaster: . But you will see here an exterior maintenance bill of $68 million dollars. As foundations have begun to settle, cracks have developed. Here is our actually greatest need: $76 million dollars just to improve the classrooms, the shops, the labs that are used for teaching.adaptation for modern technology, and then lastly the ADA compliance and other fire, life, and safety needs. The total then for these repairs and renovation are almost $200 million dollars.

Lewis: In addition to repairs and renovations to existing structures, the community college system is in need of new buildings.

Lancaster: We estimated a need of 7.4 million in additional square feet at a cost of $1.2 billion dollars. And after taking state and local sharing, the state share would be $824 million dollars.

Lewis: The committee also heard how the lack of funding is impacting another education entity in North Carolina, UNC-TV and it's mandate, to convert to digital television.

M: The important thing to remember is that we're talking about two sets of licenses. One is the set we operate on now that are analog licenses and we will continue operating on analog until 85% of the sets in the market are converted to digital. The digital licenses we will loose if we're not up and running by 2003.

Lewis: Phil Phillips, President of the North Carolina Citizens for Business and Industry called the facilities needs a crisis situation, and the business community must do it's part to alleviate the problem.

Phillips: None of us want to leave anybody behind in North Carolina. The 21^st century job market is not going to be kind to unskilled workers. Someone recently told me that 80% of the new jobs in North Carolina will require 14 years of education.

Lewis: Legislative fiscal researcher, David Crock says, the outlook for the general fund budget is that is will be tight for at least 2 more years. But prospects will improve if the Federal Reserve doesn't become overzealous in slowing the economy, if the state does not lose the Leandral School Funding lawsuit and if the state does not experience additional natural disasters.

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Holloway: Now that commission is spending time now touring UNC Campuses all around our state and we have two of the Chancellor's here in our studios, Chancellor Renick from A&T and Chancellor McCoy: from UNC Chapel Hill. Why is this such an important issue, particularly for your institutions and why should our citizens really care about this? Let's start with Chancellor Renick from A&T.

Renick: Thank you very much. I think this cuts to the core of opportunity in our future and we have to continue to provide our citizens opportunities, opportunities to be educated, opportunities to be productive, and if we don't invest in these facilities we'll end up worse of in the future than where we currently are now. And this is an emergency situation, there is a sense of urgency. In our laboratories, in our dormitories in our classrooms if we don't do something, if we fail to act, we are going to create an even larger problem into future. So this is an investment in our future.

Holloway: Chancellor McCoy: you've got a finance background, I know you know this issue well and probably have known it over the years. But why in your words is it so important now for our citizens to support or understand?

McCoy:: Well I would underscore Chancellor Renick's key word of opportunity, but if we look out eight or ten years we foresee an increase in enrollment within the University of North Carolina system, of 50,000. We now have 150,000 so you can see the magnitude of increase. That is a very important part of it. A second part is that the repair and rehabilitation of so many of our classrooms and laboratories is urgently needed in order to be able to provide the kind of training in those facilities that meets today's modern technology demands and modern science demands. We are operating in many cases in laboratories that are just not qualified, they are not in a state to be able to support the educational needs that we have today.

Holloway: Now many people look at UNC Chapel Hill and A&T, ironically, as getting maybe an inordinate amount of support - in the UNC system as Chapel Hill and A&T as the largest HBC or Historically Black College University. Is that true and why is that the perception?

McCoy:: I would say that.I'm not sure what the perception is, but as all the Chancellor's work together with President Broad I think there is a good support for the distribution of the funds available because it's based on a formula that is keyed to the mission as well at to the enrollment of each of the institutions. The number of resources that go to various schools does vary but on a per student basis it is done in a manner to cover the needs and I believe is an equitable distribution.

Holloway: A&T has a unique mission that other HBCU's have. Talk about that from the Historically Black College University.

Renick: Well for over 109 years, A&T has provided an opportunity in excellence for so many people for such a long period of time. I would like to just make a comment about the role, mix and scope of programs. Because for instance at North Carolina A&T with a strong emphasis in technology, a large portion of our students are in high cost programs. So when one makes the comparison they need to be aware that it costs more to operate doctoral level education and technology oriented education as opposed to some of the more traditional liberal arts. That's not to say that liberal arts isn't important, but it's just that the cost structures are vastly, vastly different. So that's something I think that it's important to take into consideration when one makes a comparison.

Holloway: Let's talk about this peer institution status, some of the other Chancellors have talked about it, but let's review that. I think it was a Carnegie Study that the University System or the State has a challenge to bring it's institutions up to a competitive level primarily with other like institutions around the country. Can you all explain what that means?

Renick: Well I think it's a good idea to have a comparison base because then you get a sense of what other people are doing and how you relate and compare, even though using comparisons sometimes can be tricky because there are some nuances and subtleties on each campus that sometimes large or gross measures don't take into account. But having said that I think it's important. So in the case of North Carolina A&T we are a comprehensive institution that happens to have a doctoral level education. So as we look at our peers we are looking at institutions that have a heavy technology focus, an agricultural Land Grant component as well as a strong liberal arts base. I think it's a useful tool to be able to compare yourself with other "like institutions".

Holloway: What does this mean, Chancellor McCoy: you've been in finance and you've talked about why it's important, but there are viewers that may not be interested in this issue because either they did not go to a UNC institution or they don't plan to send anyone there. But it's going to effect them from a tax point of view I would assume. Why is it important to them?

McCoy:: I think that one of the very best investments which has ever been made in North Carolina has been made in the educational system in this state, whether it be in the public schools, or whether it be at the university level or community college. That is because we are able to equip the citizen's of this state not only for a good quality of life, but also for a good economic capability. Just take one example we saw earlier a discussion about the significance of education as a driver of the economy. The Research Triangle is one example of that, located within this general area of Chapel Hill, Durham, Raleigh, between several great universities. The reason that has been so successful and that over 40,000 new high paying jobs have been created in that one region alone, is because of the availability of highly skilled employees who have graduated from our state system.

Renick: I would like to also add that in addition to the students that we recruit from North Carolina and the students who are residents of North Carolina, we are in a very, very competitive market place for faculty, and that's why the issue of facilities is even much more critical. To recruit a scientist to work in the laboratory, we need to have laboratories that would attract. So if our laboratories aren't in a position to attract the very, very brightest faculty than it's gonna have an effect on our ability to deliver the educational resources to the students of North Carolina. So there's that issue as well as far as our own competitiveness in our ability to attract faculty. Because we compete for faculty in a national pool and laboratory space, facilities, those are issues that we have to compete with.

Holloway: I think the Carnegie Study ranked them in terms of major research, doctoral, comprehensive, and I think regional. Now where would A&T fall in terms of comprehensive, what other institutions nationally are you trying to be on par with.

Renick: We are actually kind of looking at that now. We have a set of institutions and there's some kind of surrogate measures, but we look at what's happening at Howard, we look at what's happening at Cleveland State and some other schools around the country. But we want to get under the numbers and really understand the nuances of these institutions so when we make the comparisons they are real comparisons as opposed as to "it looks like, it's almost like." And really, quite frankly, program comparisons really seem to yield as much and possibly more data than gross measures of institutional comparisons. For instance, we'll compare ourselves with engineering programs and see where we come out, or agricultural, or 1890 Land Grant Institutions. So there are a lot of ways to slice and dice the mix and so we're looking at a range of factors that way.

Holloway: Now because you have some doctoral programs, but UNCG I think is ranked in the doctoral category.

Renick: Yes.

Holloway: Why is it both you and Greensboro.? Let me ask that question.

Renick: It's pretty much a function of the number that you have, the number of students that you graduate on an annual basis. Our programs, as you know, are relatively new and so it's going to take a while to generate and graduate the number of students to be in that category. My own feeling is that's just a matter of time. But that's clearly a function of number of programs, and number of students who've graduated from the programs. As a practical matter I think both of us are about neck and neck in the sponsored research area, we've got a marvelous library as well. But the real issue is having the programs and then graduating students from the programs over an extended period of time, that's the difference.

Holloway: Chancellor McCoy:, UNC Chapel Hill has a very large enrollment, and people have seen in the media that UNC Chapel Hill students are very vocal about tuition. Who's gonna bear the burden, I know that maybe an unfair question, but tuition is certainly a possibility. Tuition increases to take care of this regardless of what the legislature does. What can you say about what people can expect from a student tuition point of view?

McCoy:: We have proposed to raise tuition somewhat for each of the next couple of years $300 per student, but basically what we've done with respect to that tuition request was to focus it on faculty salaries. Historically the state, the legislature has supported capital facility needs over the years and we believe the major way that could be done and should be done is through continued state support. What's happened is as a result of a number of things the legislature decided what the needs are for all of the 16 schools for capital facilities in order to be able to develop a plan for dealing with it over a 10 year period. That study has been completed and has already been referenced. Now I think the best approach would be to develop an approach to use state resources through bonding capacity, to be able to go ahead and catch-up more nearly and more quickly on the facility needs. It would not be possible to do that adequately on just the tuition.

Holloway: We just have, believe it or not, a few more minutes left and I want to take this time to talk about some of the unique nuances of your missions again and any concluding comments you'd like to say about the uniqueness of A&T and what your needs are, the uniqueness of it from a mission point of view.

Renick: I think it's been documented that our facility needs are there, but I would like to say that North Carolina A&T has meant so much to so many for a very, very long period of time and we will continue to provide opportunity for young men and women and not so young, or not so young men/women to get an education and to provide opportunity for them to be productive. It is true that we're a Land Grant Institution and so agriculture is critically important as well as technology, but we will be true to our mission and provide opportunity to the citizens of North Carolina and beyond.

Holloway: And HBCU's mean so much to the black communities here, too.

Renick: Yes, yes. The great strength of our systems is the diversity in the institutional type.

Holloway: Final word from you Chancellor McCoy: before we conclude.

McCoy:: Well our mission at Chapel Hill as a research institution is to really focus on three things. We focus on excellent teaching, on good excellent research and also on public service throughout the state. We believe we have a great responsibility to provide good support and good services throughout the state in many ways. We feel we can do that. We plan to increase enrollment in the next several years by probably over 3,000, maybe a little more, to help meet the needs of the future in that regard. We will continue to try to improve our research capability in order to enhance our teaching capability. We've documented the needs that we have for just the next five years as a billion dollars and we've said that we need about $499 million of that from the state within that period of time to be able meet the needs.

Holloway: Well gentlemen our time has run out I want to thank you Chancellor McCoy: as well as Chancellor Renick for being with us and for coming out to talk more about public higher education issues.

If you'd like to know more about this topic you can obtain a transcript of any of the programs that we've aired, including this one at our website it's at www.unctv.org. You can contact us at 919-549-7167. If you'd like to offer any comments or questions about the program we'd appreciate that too, via those methods.

And I would like to thank you again for joining us tonight. And please be sure to tune in next Friday night at 11:00 for another edition of Black Issues Forum. I'm Jay Holloway, you have a blessed evening and a good night.

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