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Episode #1702
Knowing Our History: Black
Bookstore Owners Teach
Holloway: Jay Holloway,
Host
McCarter: Eddie McCarter, Special Occasions Bookstore
Kambon: Dr. Kamau Kambon, Blacknificent Books and More
Holloway: This
week we join black bookstore owners once again to focus on
ten areas of black and white disparity. Stay with us for more
on Black Issues Forum.
Voiceover: This program
was made possible by contributions to UNC-TV from viewers
like you. Thank you.
[THEME MUSIC]
Holloway: Racial prejudice
in America gradually declines, yet still there are deep disparities
between blacks and whites in important areas of our lives.
Tonight we will talk about not only what African Americans
need to know about the disparities, but how to do what is
needed to eradicate these disparities. I'm Jay Holloway, good
evening, and welcome to Black Issues Forum. I'd like to welcome
back a guest from one of our earlier programs, Eddie McCarter
of Special Occasions Bookstore in Winston Salem, and Dr. Kamau
Kambon of Blacknificent Books and More in Raleigh. You all
are the source and keepers of a lot of knowledge in our community,
and we want people to know where we can get this kind of information.
We've identified, through a series of a lot of advisors across
the state to Black Issues Forum, ten really key areas that
we feel are important in terms of closing these gaps. I'd
like to get-as much as we can-your responses to what you've
heard from your customers, and also some books and resources
that can help us close these areas. The bottom line many people
always talk about is economics and business and so forth,
and there are a lot of other potential entrepreneurs and business
owners out there. How do we look at improving black entrepreneurship,
and are there resources in your stores that folks can find
out about? Because you are entrepreneurs in your own right.
Kambon: Well, I think
that the-when we talk about the condition of the community,
again I go back to the psychology of black people in the communities,
and our psychology has been skewed. In terms of psychology
I mean how we see the world, and so we have to have a reorientation
in terms of our worldview. We export all of our money to the
malls, to other communities, and we import very little, we
create very little, we manufacture very little. As a result
we do not have the institutions, or the infrastructure necessary
to build the community the way it ought to be built. So a
lot of it is psychological.
Holloway: Comment,
McCarter, on this psychological focus on entrepreneurship.
McCarter: It's hard
to add to what he said because it's just so accurate, in that
our best generally choose to work for someone else rather
than coming back to work in the community. Now, one of the
things I've tried to do to get young people to take a deeper
look at themselves is first of all when they start a family,
is to-and I use this book. [DISPLAYS BOOK Baby Names]
A child's name is very important. A name should be symbolic
of something. Oftentimes your name refers back to a relative,
because that relative was maybe good at something, maybe an
athlete or an educator, but it gives that child a sense of
meaning and determination, and by doing that you empower that
child. The next thing you want to do is this, is to make certain
that whatever educational system-and I say that very specifically-because
you can choose to keep your child home and educate your child.
Make certain that whatever education system your child is
involved in that you do not allow them to start his point
of origin from slavery. Make him go back to his roots. Because
if you start a person-and this gets to psychological again-if
I start you out being a slave it means that you can be a slave
again. So I need to start you out at a point where you were
not a slave, let you go through slavery, and that let's you
know that even though in life you may have obstacles you can
overcome them. But if I start you from a negative it means
I can take you back to a negative.
Holloway: Which is
before we had these disparities.
McCarter: Yes.
Holloway: For the benefit
of our audience, I want to review these ten areas of disparity
that we've been able to come up with, and let me read these
to you very quickly. In business: how to increase and improve
black entrepreneurship. Economic development: how to improve
the economic condition of the community. Personal finance:
how to spend less, save more, and avoid getting ripped off.
Political action: how to make better informed legal and political
decisions. Education: how to improve teaching and learning.
Health and environment: how to make better lifestyle choices
and increase access to healthcare. Family and culture: how
to build stronger families and more responsible parenting.
Communication and technology: how to develop better media
and technology consumption habits. Leadership: how to identify
and hold responsible, accountable public, political, spiritual
and grassroots leaders. And finally, community unity: how
to restore unity within the community and build coalitions.
Have we covered it all Dr. Kambon?
Kambon: I think you've
covered it all. But you know-and I think I've done a lot of
community work over the years-and I think one of the fundamental
problems is that we don't understand what community is. We
don't have the concept of community. And in African tradition,
you see, we are all related. What happens across the country
affects me. So there is a worldview and an orientation that
says that we are one people, that we are united, that we have
a common experience.
Holloway: It's afrocentric.
Kambon: And that is
the concept of community, and community doesn't always have
to be geographic. To me community is more psychological. Wherever
I travel, the first place I go.if I travel in the U.S. the
first place I go is the black community. I want to find out
where the black bookstore is and where can I get healthy food.
Holloway: Share with
me-with our audience-I was in your bookstore and there was
a gentleman there, and he was concerned about your clientele
that comes in, and he says, "Well, they don't really care
about me," but you gave what I thought was a very profound
statement to this brother. Can you share that with us?
Kambon: Yeah, I think
that there are some brothers that drink outside, and he said
to me, "The people that come into your store think that they
are better than we are." And after I gave it some thought,
you know, I went back to him and I said, "It's not that I
think the people think they are better than you. I think that
they think that you can be better and you are better than
what you are doing." And so what we are talking about, we
are talking about elevating everyone, that we don't differentiate
in terms of class or economic status, that we are all one
people and that we have to.I've got an article that said the
higher people go educationally the less concern they have
for the poor. And so that means that as our people, the higher
we go educationally we become disconnected from the masses
of people, but we have a common experience.
Holloway: So in light
of that disconnection, we are looking at, still, people managing
their personal finance and building the community up, and
we still have these issues. What resources in the stores,
in your stores, can persons come to to improve their economic
plight but yet still be conscious?
McCarter: I think what
the public needs to do, and especially the African American
community, is realize that within our stores-our bookstores
are broken down like every other bookstore. We have a business
area, and within that area Jawanza Kunjufu is one of the authors
who talks about how to run a business. And there are any number
of other authors from a black perspective that will tell you
how to run and operate a business. Now some might say, "What
do you mean? A business is a business." That is not true.
To run a black business is different, and if you think I'm
kidding out on some black paint for a day, go apply for a
loan, and you will be in for the shock of your life. The biggest
shock I ever had in my life was being self-employed when I
was applying for a loan, and the person didn't call me back
so I called the bank and said, "What's the problem?" They
said, "Well, we need to verify your employment." I said, "Verify
my employment?" I said, "I'm self-employed." They said, "Well,
someone has to tell us." I said fine. You call my accountant
and he'll call me, and then you know, we can be verified.
[CHUCKLES] And you have to laugh, because if not you could
not exist, and that is the joke about America, that at the
time we had been in business ten years. I paid all my taxes
on time, and all the licenses were updated, but here this
person wanted me to verify the fact that I was in business.
Holloway: Let's talk
about all these worldwide issues that have been going on and
how African Americans are affected. Some are saying that this
attack on America came at a very interesting time, just weeks
after the United States pulled out of the racism conference
over in Africa. And apparently for the reason that the United
States did not want to apologize for enslaving our people.
Are people in your bookstore talking about that and what are
your views on it?
Kambon: Well, I think
that, you see, America pulled out of the conference, but they
did what they were supposed to do, because their job is to
maintain white world domination, and that is the paradigm,
that is the model. That model exists whether you are in France,
England, Australia. The paradigm is to maintain white world
supremacy and domination over people of color. The whites
represent about one-tenth of the entire population on the
globe, yet they dominate in all the areas. They are not going
to have a power shift, so therefore they are not going to
involve themselves in a conference that is going to change
that paradigm. So you know, we have to understand that. And
so the people, we are powerless as a people and as different
races against white world domination, and this is what the
different nations are trying to do, they are trying to form
coalitions to counteract white world domination.
Holloway: Any discussion
on that in your bookstore? Do you have any opinions on that?
McCarter: We have a
lot of that going on. If you remember your early history classes
we used to talk about three races, a black race, the white
race and the yellow race. Well, see, they've adopted the yellow
race, so that you have more to go into the situation. But
we get a lot of talk about that, because it seems that everything
that you try to do, there is always a reason why it can't
be done if it relates to you, but it is often done the other
way. I'll give you a perfect example. We are talking about
helping the airlines-and I am all for helping the airlines-but
there are a lot of other businesses, small businesses. Every
business in this country has been affected by what happened
on September 11th. So what makes the airline different
from your business? You are going to have a loss as a result
of it. The television people have had a loss. Why don't we
bail them out? The retail stores, the malls have had a loss,
let's bail them out. Because we are using everyone's tax when
we do that, so it's a situation whereby when it's one situation
you can look and see and be sympathetic, but the other one
is just-"that's just the risk of being in business."
Holloway: From a political
or positive point of view this is going to change the reparations
movement from African Americans, do you think?
McCarter: They won't
even apologize for having slavery. You know. It was interesting.
The other night I was watching the program, and they had the
Japanese fellow on, and you know, they have given them reparations,
but no one will talk about giving reparations to blacks. It's
almost like you've said something that shouldn't be said.
Not even an apology. Not even an apology.
Holloway: How do African
Americans continue to deal with that and be part of a culture
that won't even apologize for such a brutal act of enslavement?
Kambon: Well, you know,
I think around the country there are a lot of movements underway.
We have a lot of our fighters and warriors in prison. We have
our black political prisoners, and most people are not ever
aware that-and the reason that a lot of these black men and
women are in prison is simply because of their ideology, not
that they've committed a crime, but they don't agree with
what America does to African people economically, educationally;
how they have disrupted our communities, prevented us from
owning property, they red line. They call it racial profiling
but I call it genocide, it's just the same form of genocide.
So there are a lot of people who resist white supremacy, and
America reacts-and France and England, they all react the
same way-by imprisoning these black people. So this cannot,
this truth cannot be squashed, and it has to come out that
America is.it has two faces: one that it presents to the world,
but internally it is involved with not only white supremacy
but the suppression and oppression of African people.
Holloway: Where is
the black community's leadership in times like this and on
these issues? I mean, how do we hold accountable our public,
our political, spiritual and grassroots leaders to these difficult
and controversial issues?
McCarter: Well, let's
get a definition of leadership, and let's be very frank about
it. The mere fact that you have to be in front of the crowd
does not necessarily mean that you are the leader, because
the crowd may make a 180º turn, so you are behind. I think
we are at a point whereby we can't say we have black leaders.
I think you have to stand for yourself and say that this is
what has to be done for me because I am a citizen, it is constitutionally
right that you should treat me in certain manners. But as
far as leadership, in most cases they are in positions whereby
if you are there your vote doesn't count. Let's say if it's
five to one. Let's go to the Supreme Court. Even if you had
a leader there you are outnumbered. So just because I can
vote doesn't necessarily mean that what is just will be done.
We are talking about unfair elections, you know, there are
people in Florida who say they still haven't gotten their
vote counted, and we are talking about in America. But we
hold ourselves up as the symbol for the entire world to judge
from.
Holloway: Kambon, I
know you have some thoughts about that.
Kambon: Well, I think
we are trying to say a lot here, and I think basically what
I'm saying is that we have these different communities throughout
America, the black communities, black communities attempting
to become organized. And I think that we have to have a worldview
that shows that we are all related and that we all have to
work together. We have to spend our money inside the community,
we have to create jobs and employment and things that are
vital, not just beauty parlors and barber shops and automobile
detail, but we have to have things where we can.we need to
have our own schools, we need to have our own civic centers.
This was pre-1954 that we had these things, but we've lost
them, and I don't know if we can regain them. And so we have
an internal battle that we have to fight in terms of organizing.
Holloway: But what
about our youth and hip hop culture? Is this the next generation
of leadership that is going to take us through these changes?
Kambon: I don't know.
You know, I think that we have a lot of plans. Dr. Chester
Williams has a plan in his book of how we should organize.
The Nation of Islam has their tenets. The Black Panthers,
they have their tenets. The Black United Front, they have
a whole list of things that we have to do in terms of building
the infrastructure in the community. There is a book, Dr.
Claud Anderson has a book, Powernomics, which is one
of the number one books in the country in terms of economic
empowerment. But if people don't have their minds set straight,
they can have all the money in the world and they are going
to turn that money over to the different malls, and spend
their money on cars, etcetera, and so the money goes outside
the community.
Holloway: Well, let's
talk about that. In terms of personal finance African Americans
represent a significant portion of North Carolina's population
in the world, I mean the United States, but yet our spending
does not necessarily reflect supporting our community. But
how do we learn how to improve our personal finances or when
will we learn?
McCarter: I'll start
on that. I started writing a book, and I said I was going
publish this as soon as I go out of business, and if I publish
it now I'm going to be out of business tomorrow! [LAUGHING]
But one of the things I say-and I've started jotting down
notes-there are some things you should do first. You should
own your house before you buy your Lexus, we'll start there.
Okay? There is no point in your having the finest suits if
you have extensive credit card debts. And we have to make
some major concerns. You don't have to have a big-screen TV.
You don't have to have the latest stereo system. You do need
to provide for your children's welfare, upkeep, and education.
You do need a good health plan. But some of those other things
that we've become accustomed to, or we've seen on television,
we need to learn how to look at it and let it pass on.
Kambon: Well, and I
think-and he was very, very accurate at that-we have to learn
to distinguish between what we need and what we want. And
television programs us to want everything, but we should own
and control everything that we need. Food, water, and shelter
should be the only all-controlling. Everything else we have
to let go and take that money and.people have to get organized.
They have to pool their resources and build the kinds of things-we
should have family centers and bookstores in our communities
where people can go and have birthday parties for their children.
Where are our bowling alleys? Where are our skating rinks,
where are our summer camps? These are the kinds of things
that we should be putting our money into. Land ownership.
We have lost all kind of land in the last 50 or 60 years.
So where are the things that suggest that we are working together
to build what we need, to build a nation inside of a nation?
Holloway: And we watch
other cultures come into this country continuously and do
that better that the African American culture has been able
to do that.
Kambon: And you know,
this information, what we are saying is not a secret, it's
in books. I mean, we have great black authors that, this is
one of the best books out now is Blueprint for Black Power
by Dr. Amos Wilson. I mentioned Dr. Claud Anderson's book,
his book Black Label, White Wealth. Powernomics.
I mean, there are so many books out. Boston has a book out
on Smart Money Moves. So it's not just money, but it's
the psychology behind it. And I always go back to the psychology,
to the spirit, and so I think that the schools damage us so
much psychologically and emotionally and spiritually that
I think that we are trying to compensate for that damage by
running out and buying all these things to try and insulate
and protect ourselves.
Holloway: Well, speaking
of buying there, when we think about the communications and
technology and our consumption habits, we consume-African
Americans, that is-consume media at a much different rate
than our white counterparts, in terms of the TV programs we
watch, you know, the media that we purchase. It's no comparison
to the white community. For example, programs like this that
are uplifting, the majority of our community are watching
WB and the other networks for the sitcoms. But how do we help
people to make more responsible media consumption habits?
Whose responsibility is that?
McCarter: Well, it
all starts back at the family, so if you are the man and woman
of the house you have to have a sense of values, and you have
to instill that sense of values to your youth. You have to
tell your youth when they are coming up that it is more important
that you get an education than you have a pair of shoes with
somebody's name on it. You have to let them know also that
if you send them to school and they are clean and well-fed,
it's not necessary for someone's name to be on their rear
end. They don't need someone's logo across their chest, especially
someone who does not represent your needs. And you have to
say it not only verbally, you have to back it up. You know,
we all love our children, and I think one of the weaknesses
we've had is that we've tried to have them not go through
what we've gone through, and sometimes that's not good. Sometimes
you need to say, "I can afford it but I simply refuse to do
it."
Holloway: Let's all-with
less than three minutes here-let's talk about education now.
We've talked about the family, I'm glad you touched on that.
How do we improve the teaching and learning in our community?
And there is a lot of attention in North Carolina on this,
closing this achievement gap. But that is a whole big topic.
Let me just pose the basic question: how do we improve the
teaching and learning in the African American community?
Kambon: Well, I maintain
that we need to have Saturday schools and after-school programs
to actually counteract what is going on in the public schools.
We need to have African-centered schools. Again, when I talk
about Africa-and people say, "Oh, well, I'm not African"-that
shows you the level of miseducation. Yes, we are African,
and we have to look at the African value system. And we have
to bring that and incorporate that African value system in
our home and our worldview. And then that will help dictate
to us how important education is. So we have to do it alternately,
outside of the public school system, by creating these after-school
and Saturday school program.
Holloway: Comments,
McCarter, on Education.
McCarter: I only can
say one thing. When you look at your kids sometimes it's a
matter of your allowing someone else to educate your children.
So it goes back to what he is saying: you have to educate
your children yourself, and you have to educate them before
you allow them to be with other people. I've taught for a
number of years myself, and that if you allow a teacher to
be with a person for a period of time, that person becomes
a part of that teacher, so that person has to have your values.
So in order for your values to be instilled you have to make
certain of who teaches your child. When you let other people
teach your children then you are not in control.
Holloway: I want to
hear, with this last area, because if our health is not right
we can't be concerned about all these things because we decrease
the time we will be here on this earth. But how do we make
better lifestyle choices and increase our access to healthcare
in our community?
Kambon: Again, I think
that we have to learn about food, and we-our people-we lead
in every area of health crisis in America. Heart disease,
diabetes, hypertension. And so if we keep eating-we call it
a slave diet-if we keep eating a slave diet then we will fill
the hospitals. But by filling the hospitals and going to the
hospitals, what it does is it puts a psychological, emotional
and economic burden on our families. So we have to read about
food and health, and there is a lot of literature about that,
alternative health. We can't continue to eat these bad foods
and expect not to go to the hospital and die early. There
is an article that came out that says in the black community
there are 300,000 excess deaths every year. That means 300,000
people die, and they do not have to die. And it's because
they are eating the wrong foods.
Holloway: And it's
not your genes, it's not just because you are African American.
Kambon: No, it's not
genetic, it's because we are eating the wrong foods, and we
have, there are plenty of books. This is not a secret. But
we have to be willing to get this information and internalize
it, absorb it, and move on what we are learning.
Holloway: McCarter,
do you want to take the last word on this, health?
McCarter: The only
other thing about the health problem is that you also notice
that most of the discoveries in regards to improving health
involve males, so what that shows you is even another discrepancy
that is in there, that most of the health things that are
discovered are those diseases that are about males, and that
means white males to a certain degree. There is a lessening
there of health research in the area of things that confront
women also, and I am just bringing it out to show you how
it runs. It's a male white situation, domination there.
Holloway: Some final
comments before we close here.
Kambon: Well, I think
that race is the predominant factor in all these issues. And
we have to organize in our communities, we have to set up
what I call umojo, or unity groups. People have to work together.
We have to break down these artificial barriers in terms of
religion and fraternity and sorority affiliations. We've got
to break down all these artificial barriers and we have to
work together. Marcus Garvey said, "Race first." So that is
the overriding factor, race first. And if we can do that I
think our communities will be alright.
Holloway: Gentlemen,
thank you so much for coming back with us again for a second
week, we really appreciate it. And if you want to find out
more make sure you visit their bookstores for a lot of resources.
To learn more about our ten black literacy initiatives, or
to get in touch with tonight's guests, please contact us online
at www.unctv.org, or you can call us at (919) 549-7160. For
Black Issues Forum I am Jay Holloway, you have a blessed evening
and a good night.
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