2001-02 Broadcast Season
Broadcast Program Transcripts
Episode #1704
Up Close with Tavis Smiley

Holloway: Jay Holloway, Host
Smiley: Tavis Smiley

Voiceover: This program is made possible in part by contributions from UNC-TV viewers like you. Thank you.

[THEME MUSIC]

Holloway: Good evening, I'm Jay Holloway. Welcome to Black Issues Forum. Tavis Smiley is probably most widely recognized as the host of the former program "BET Tonight." He has sealed unprecedented media and publishing deals, and he has authored five books, including his most recent, How to Make Black America Better. Later in the program tonight we will bring you an up-close interview with Tavis, but right now we share with you part of his message at the Black Expo in Wilmington.

[RUN EXPO FOOTAGE]

Smiley: Good evening. "Race is not a personal reality, race is not a human reality, race is a political reality." [CHEERS] Let me say that again. Baldwin, James Baldwin, put it like this: "Race is not a personal reality, race is not a human reality, race is a political reality." Now what does that mean? It means that as long as you're black up in here, up in here, there are some issues that you have to deal with just because you are black. There are some obstacles that you are going to encounter just because you are black. There are some situations that you have to face just because you are black. And so because we know that being black is a political reality, and we know that there are political consequences, social consequences, economic consequences to our being black, it seems to me that every now and then we ought to come together as black folk-are you hearing me on this?-come together as black folk in these Black Expos and talk about what we can do to help make Black America better.

Now I've become convinced of a few things as I've gotten older. The first is that the time has come for us to put a mirror up in front of our own faces and ask ourselves, "What are we prepared to do to help make Black America better?" I said on the radio the other day-and I hope folks take this in the right spirit-I said the other day on the radio that I have given up on trying to change white folk. [LAUGHTER] I have given up on that. I don't do New Year's resolutions, but after the first of this year when we hit the official new millennium, January 1, 2001, I made a New Year's resolution this year that I wasn't going to spend no more of my time wasted trying to change other folks. [APPLAUSE] I think that our time is better spent trying to get us to change us.

There are some things that we can do to help make our community better, and this isn't rocket science. Obviously when you make your own community better, when you make Black America better, you make all of America better. Black America has always been the conscience of this country, and so when we make our own communities better we, by extension and by an automatic process, help make America better. So the question is, when we come to these expos is it just going to be a party or is it going to be a party with a purpose? And I believe that these parties are cool, I like getting my groove on, having a good time and enjoying some fun and food and the expo and all the good stuff that is out there that I want to go see in a second. I enjoy that, and hope you've enjoyed it and will continue to enjoy it as well.

The party part is all right, but we've got to get beyond just partying to partying with a purpose. And so I told the brothers when I show up in here I hope that there is going to be some part of the program, if you are asking me to participate there must be some part of the program where we can have, even for just 20 minutes here, some critical conversation, some critical conversation about what we are going to do to help make Black America better. So that when we leave this place today we have not just left having a good time, but we've left with something in our minds, something to think about as we go about our way as African American people trying to figure out what we can do to uplift and improve our own.

There is a reality being visited upon Black America that nobody in this room is talking about. Nobody in Black America is talking about it, nobody is writing about it, nobody is discoursing about it. It's just not being discussed around the dinner table as it should be. I happen to believe that the reality that I am about to share with you now is the most significant, the most important, the most critical issue facing Black America today, and yet we are not as a community engaged in this conversation. Understand that in 2001-I look around this room, we have a demographically broad audience. It's always tough to get up and give these kinds of speeches right quick when you've got a room that is so demographically split. I see we've got some young folk up in here right down front, we've got some middle aged folk up in here-that's a black thing, ain't it? That must have started down there in Wilmington somewhere. Why do we always got to be "up in" something in the first place? [LAUGHTER] Black folk are always "up in the barber shop" or "up in the Black Expo," off "up in college," "up in folk's business." I don't know who started that, but we always up in something. I am glad you are up in here today. But the reality is that we've got young folk in here, we've got middle aged folk in here, and-my grandmother Big Mama wouldn't let me use the word "old"-so I see we've got some chronologically gifted folk up in here as well. [LAUGHTER]

Now this is like a family reunion, and it causes me, as I look down on your faces, to consider this reality. For the first time ever, for the first time ever in Black America we have a generation of young black leaders, young black folk in this room today, young black professionals. I'm part of this hip-hop, this gen-x generation-I hate that term, 'gen-x,' it sounds like a laboratory experiment that blew up somewhere-but they say I am part of gen-x, so I am. And I look around and see some young folk in here who are part of the hip-hop generation, part of the millennium generation. Understand that we are collectively-collectively-we are the first generations of black folk in this country who are assuming now, and who will of course continue to assume, positions of leadership and responsibility and authority, but we do so as the first generation of black folk to assume these positions of leadership without, without, without, having lived through the civil rights struggle. We don't know what it means to be told 'no.' "No, you can't go to school here." "No, you can't eat here." "No, you can't lodge here." "No, you can't work here." "No, you can't shop here." We don't know what it means to be told no.

And so consequently here we are at the outset, at the dawn, at the beginning of a new millennium with a new group of black leaders trying to step up in our community, who cannot compare the before and the after picture. What do we say every Black History Month? If you don't know where you've been you don't know where you are going. And if you don't know where you are going, you don't know where you have been. It works in both directions. The reality is how do we know where we are going if we don't know where we have been? And the critical question and the critical challenge facing Black America today is what does-hear this-what does Black America look like, 20, 30, 40, 50 years down the road with a bunch of us trying to lead the way who have no first hand perspective on what that struggle was all about? [APPLAUSE]

Now, that reality opens up a Pandora's Box, if you will, the consequences of which we as black folk have yet begun to consider. We are caught up in all kinds of conversations, no doubt about that. But where are we having the conversation, where is the pressure point? Where is the discourse, where is the dialogue about what our community looks like a few years down the road when this new reality visits upon us? I live in California, so I am used to living through these earthquakes, and so let me just use this word "cataclysmic," because I hear it so much in LA There is about to be a cataclysmic shift with a whole lot of aftershocks-are you feeling me? When it comes to this question of what Black America looks like a few years down the road with these new leaders who just don't know because we were not there? As a generation of young folk, black folk-y'all ain't seeing this yet-we have had such access, we've had such unlimited access, such unlimited opportunity, that if we want something we just see it and we go get it. Because we got it like that, and we live large, and we've got the floss and the ice and the bling bling.I done lost half of y'all now, I know. Ask your grandkids now what I just said, they'll explain it to you. For those who are Ebonically-challenged, they can explain that to you!

But we don't understand that-how can I put this?-Jackie Robinson wasn't the first brother who could play major league ball with the white boys. He was the first one who had the opportunity. The first one who had the access to play ball with those guys. But now we live in a world where all of us have such unlimited access, such unlimited opportunity, we take all this stuff for granted. We just assume that it's always been this way, and you know what happens when we assume, don't you? It's a family day, we ain't going to go there. But we make assumptions about the lifestyle that we now lead. What I am trying to do, very briefly here, is to challenge you to consider what Black America looks like down the road if we don't have these expos, if we don't come together from time to time. If we don't raise the critical conversations that need to be had in our community about our future. If we don't decide that we are going to do something to help make Black America-and by extension to make all of America-better, if we don't decide to do that and decide sooner rather than later, when this reality of this new leadership dynamic rests upon Black America, what are we going to do then? What are we going to do a few years down the road when we look up and realize that this last generation of those who understand the struggle, of those who know it firsthand, when they have moved on, what happens down the road? Are we all, are all of our leaders going to be a bunch of Clarence Thomases? That's a scary thought, isn't it? A bunch of folk who think that all you've got to do is pull yourself up by your bootstraps.if you ain't got no boots.? All you've got to do is get an education? Racism is.there is no more racism in America. All you've got to do is work hard, play by the rules. You know, people who think they did it by themselves. That's the danger you face when you have a generation that don't know nothing 'bout no struggle. And that's where we are, as a people. And so I hope you understand now the reason why it's important for all of us-as chronologically split, this audience, that we may be-there is a reason why all of us need to be here together in this expo setting sharing with one another. Because that reality is going to hit us sooner rather than later. And I fear for us, I fret for us as a people if we don't start giving some time and some consideration to what our future does look like when this new crop of leaders steps onto the scene without having that first-hand perspective on.

[EXPO FOOTAGE FADES OUT]

Holloway: You say we are living in one of the most defining moments in making America-Black America-better, that the new leaders have not lived through the Civil Rights struggle. If that's a danger, how do we recognize these new leaders?

Smiley: Well, I think that we recognize new leaders the same way we always have, to look at people who want, who offer themselves up to be public servants, those who have the kind of requisite ambition and talent and skill and interest in wanting to make a contribution. I have a foundation called the Tavis Smiley Foundation. We have a program through that foundation called the "Youth to Leaders" Program, and we comb the country, big cities and small towns, trying to find young people who really want to make a contribution. And the more we do this program, the more cities we go to, the more comfortable I am in saying that there are young people out there who want to make a contribution, they want to make a difference, they want to offer themselves up as public servants, we just need to nurture these young people. And this program is designed to identify these young people around the country-we are doing a good job of it. And we are really making sure-wanting to make sure, I should say-that Martin meets Malcolm at age 13. That Ida B. Wells meets Harriet Tubman at age 15, that Roy Wilkins meets Thurgood Marshall at age 17, so these young folk can meet each other now and start the associations, the bonding, the dialogue that will bode well for them and for us 20, 30, 40 years down the road. So the point is they are there, they just have to be nurtured.

Holloway: That ties in to education being one of the most important things, as you say in your new book, as well as public education really needing a shot in the arm now. You talk about ten challenges in your book, you talk about 10 black literacy initiatives. Why is education one of the most important ones wherever you go in Black America?

Smiley: Well, I love what Malcolm said. Malcolm X said that "education is our passport to the future, for tomorrow belongs to those who prepare for it today." I don't know that we will ever rid the world that we live in of racism, but what I do know is that the greatest threat to racism is our continued pursuit of educational excellence every day and in every possible way. And so it seems to me that everything that we do has to begin with that agenda that considers how we are going to prepare on the education front this new generation of young leaders. And it seems to me that when we don't do everything that we ought to be doing on the education front, that borders on child neglect on our part.

Holloway: In talking about the black/white disparity, in addition to education, there is black/white disparity not only in education and economics, but in quite a few areas. Why do you think we have these disparities in so many areas, and not just the economics. You mentioned in your speech three-fifths humans still today, economically.

Smiley: Well, I think there are-again, as James Baldwin once said-that race is not a human reality, it's not a personal reality, race is a political reality, as I tried to tell our audience today. There are some realities, some obstacles, some situations that we encounter and face, some situations that we have to navigate that come our way simply because we are African American. It was Langston Hughes who once wrote that life for us "ain't been no crystal stair." So there are some difficulties that we have to encounter just because of this melanin that exists in our skin. And so we've got to be prepared for that. That ought not to be an excuse, but it is a reality that each one of use ought to accept. And so when I say to folk all across the country that as long as you are black, you are going to be engaged in a struggle for something, and so you might as well fall in love with the struggle right now. And if each one of us commits ourselves to doing what we can-each of us-do what we can to help make Black America better, if each of us takes that oath seriously and takes that challenge and that charge seriously to do what we can, where we are with what we have to make Black America better, then all of America ultimately is better by that effort.

Holloway: When you say that thinking black requires more than just altering your consumer habits and altering where you live, but it really requires developing ingrained economic habits, expound on that for us.

Smiley: Well, I think when you talk economics, when you talk politics, whether you talk a social agenda, it seems to me that the first step in making Black America better is to get folk to understand that every day that they wake up, every day you wake your black self up you've got to think black first. That is to say, "What can I do today to uplift my race? What can I do today to make some contribution? What can I do today to make black folk proud of me? What can I do today to improve the condition of my community and my country as an African American?" You know, the reality is, as I said a moment ago, because there are some obstacles that we face because we are black, the response to these challenges must be uniquely black, if you follow me. And so we have to wake up every day thinking black first 100% of the time. "What can I do today as a member of this race of people to improve the condition of my people?" If every one of us, again, wakes up every day thinking black first, then that will permeate our thinking on economics, it permeates our thinking on social issues, it permeates and saturates our thinking on a social agenda, and so that is how I think we start to advance. We have to begin-it seems to me, rather-to begin every day by at least thinking black first.

Holloway: Well, you've done a great job of that on a national basis, the "Tom Joyner Morning Show," formerly with BET, and now this unprecedented multi-media deal. Is there going to be a tradeoff between what you were able to do when you were focused strictly on a black audience, and now speaking to America totally on CNN and ABC?

Smiley: No, I don't think so. I think that what these deals allow us to do is to talk to a much broader audience of people. Being on ABC network, "Prime Time Live" and "Good Morning America," being on CNN, being on National Public Radio, certainly will allow me to have entrée to an audience that I did not have every day on Black Entertainment Television. But I'm still doing "Tom Joyner," I'm still doing another syndicated radio commentary that's on black radio, I am still writing books, of course, and still traveling the country, as we are here now, traveling the country speaking to African American audiences about issues that I find important. So I am always going to be black, I love being who I am, I am always going to raise issues that are important to African American people, and at first and foremost, you know, I am an advocate. I get a chance now to wear a journalism hat sometimes, to wear an advocacy hat sometimes. But when all is said and done I love being who I am. I feel compelled, I feel compassionate about raising these issues, and I am going to continue to do that. And that is not, the fact that I am on ABC or CNN is not going to stop me from raising the kinds of issues. It doesn't change my philosophy about the way that I see life.

Holloway: Does it ever bother you when you are changing roles from commentary to news in terms of advocacy? How do you deal with that?

Smiley: I think you have to know where the line is. It's like the old Kenny Rogers song, you have to know when to hold them and know when to fold them, know when to walk away, and when to run. You've got to know what you are doing. I mean, when I am on "Prime Time" on ABC for example, I'm reporting a story. I am doing a piece, I am doing a story for "Prime Time," and that is what it is. There is no commentary in there, there is no editorial commentary in there. It's a piece for ABC. When I am on CNN I am being asked about a ruling on affirmative action as a commentator, so I get a chance to express my point of view. I think that the American public is, we are, you know, these are smart people, and they know when you are offering commentary and they know when you are offering your editorial comment, and they know when you are trying to report a story. And it is my responsibility and that of the news organization that I work with to make sure that we know where that line is and so identify that for the viewing audience.

Holloway: Let me move now to your Smiley Report, and also one of your challenges to Black America in your book. Family is one of your top initiatives. Why is that so important, and do you think that we've gotten away from our roots of the family, like it was so many years ago?

Smiley: Well, there is always this debate-as you well know-there is a big debate of what a family is anymore-what is a nuclear family?-and certainly the census numbers suggest that our definition as black people of a family unit has changed significantly. Let's just face it, we are not producing the kind of nuclear families that we once did back in the day. So there is a distinct difference now between what family used to be and what family is. The point I'm trying to make is that, that distinction notwithstanding, we still need to put family first. We talk a lot about family values, but are we really valuing families? Are we really making the kinds of sacrifices that have to be made to really put our families first?

I tell a funny story-well, it's not funny-but a poignant story I think, in the book. I have seven younger brothers, and the story, right quick, that I tell in the book is simply this: when I graduated from, or when I finished college, I had to make a tough decision. I have seven younger brothers who wanted to go to school. Do I take the little money I am making now and pay for them to go to school-my parents were divorced, and I am basically a surrogate, I'm daddy at this point to my seven younger brothers-do I take the money that I am making now working for Tom Bradley when he was mayor of LA-my first job out of college-do I take this money and put it toward their education and apply it for their schooling, or do I take this money and pay off my student loans? I know what I should have done. I don't encourage anybody-do not do what Tavis did. I'm not encouraging anybody to do what I did. But I had to make a choice: do I give these white folk their money back for the money they gave me to go to school, or do I make sure that my seven younger brothers, these black men, who I know are going to have a rough row to hoe without an education, do I spend this money on their school and let the government come after me later on?

I made a tough decision. It was a tough decision. What might have been tough, I should say, for some was easy for me. I just didn't pay my student loans back. I said, "Every dime I make I'm going to apply toward my brothers' education." And them boys went to Morehouse, and they went to Hampton, they went to all kinds of places, and graduated with honors. And I believe in retrospect that the Lord blessed my efforts, because years, some years later when my ship came in it came in big, and I ain't the richest brother in the world, but I'm not hurting. And the minute that I started making money I was able to pay back all of my student loans with one check, paid everything off, paid off all of my debt, didn't have any problem with that. But I believe I was blessed because I honored my family. I wanted to make sure that these young black boys got a chance at getting a quality education. I'll pay the bills when I've got to pay them. Again, that's not something I'm advising other folks to do, but it's my own example of how I had to make a tough decision in terms of putting family first. I believe if we do more of that as a people we will be better off.

Holloway: Very good. One last question. You say in your book that we need to stop trying to change white folks' opinions about blacks but our own selves, to take more control of our own selves. How do we do that?

Smiley: Well, I think that it starts with appreciating who you are. I get the sense that there are some people these days who are black who don't even love being black. I mean, it's like a new kind of modern age contemporary passing. It's like we-you know, back in the day it was called 'passing' and now it's just straight assimilation. We just don't, we want to be everything except who we are, which was always mind-boggling to me, because what we are is what everybody else wants to be. We start the fashion trends, we start the music trends, we do it and everybody else wants to do what we do. But there are some folks who just seem to be uncomfortable in their own skin. They don't love being who they are. I tell a story in the book, I think it's in the book, about Whoopi Goldberg coming on my TV show when I was on BET. And she doesn't like being called an African American, and we had this big debate about why she didn't want to be called an African American, and she said to me live on BET one night, "How do I know I'm from Africa? I could be from Egypt." And I looked at her and I just started laughing, I could not believe that Whoopi said, "How do I know I'm from Africa? I could be from Egypt." Here is somebody on national television trying to say they don't like being called black, they don't want to be called an African American, and they don't know where Egypt is on a map in the context of the continent of Africa. So that was just really interesting for me, because I love Whoopi.

Holloway: How did you handle that?

Smiley: I went to a commercial break, because I didn't know what to say. There wasn't nothing to say about that! Sometimes, again, you got to know when to hold them, when to fold them. I just like, you know, ".a commercial break, we'll be back in a moment," because the ignorance of the statement spoke for itself. But again, I just get the sense that we are so in a hurry to not be who we are that it makes it difficult to make any strides about America if people don't appreciate who they are. And you can't appreciate who you are if you don't know your history, if you don't know from whence you've come, if you don't know the struggles that your people have endured. And that is why this shift that is about to take place vis-à-vis the leadership in our community is so important. We've never had leaders in our community who did not come out of that struggle, who do not have an appreciation and understanding of what the struggle really is and what it's all about. And so we have got to have a generation who understands that, that appreciates that. How does that happen? It's up to us. It is our responsibility for those who have some appreciation, some understanding, some knowledge of it to share it. Information is power. Knowledge is power. So for those who have an understanding, who have that experience, it is our responsibility to give back to these young people, and in so doing we make our effort a significant one toward making Black America, and for that matter making all of America a better place for each of us to live and work.

Holloway: Congratulations in all your success, and thank you for taking the time.

Smiley: Thank you so much, I've enjoyed talking to you.

Holloway: All right.

Smiley: My pleasure.

Holloway: And for more information on tonight's guest Tavis Smiley, please visit our website at www.unctv.org, or call us at Black Issues Forum, (919) 549-7167, or send us an email at bif@unctv.org. We'd love to have your feedback and suggestions. And remember to join us again every Friday night at 9:30 only on UNC-TV. I'm Jay Holloway, you have a blessed evening. Good night.