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Episode #1705
Farming and Agriculture:
North Carolina's Bread and Butter
Holloway: Jay
Holloway, Host
Thompson: Alton Thompson, Ph.D., Dean of the School of
Agriculture and Environmental Sciences at North Carolina A&T
University
Bowens: Stephon Bowens, Esq., Executive Director and Attorney
with the Land Loss Prevention Project
Bailey: Betty Bailey, Executive Director of the Rural Advancement
Foundation International, (RAFI USA)
Holloway: Following
the events in New York and Washington, DC, many of us are
naturally concerned about national security, but what we may
not be aware of is how important farming and agriculture are
to that security. We'll talk about the agribusiness in North
Carolina next on Black Issues Forum. You stay tuned.
Voiceover: This
program is made possible in part by contributions from UNC-TV
viewers like you. Thank you.
[THEME
MUSIC]
Holloway: Good
evening, and welcome to Black Issues Forum. I'm Jay
Holloway. Tonight, an important look at the agribusiness in
our state, and the concerns for our farming community. Our
panel of guests represent a wide range of interests in terms
of agriculture and farming, so I'd like to first introduce
Dr. Alton Thompson, Dean of the School of Agriculture and
Environmental Sciences at North Carolina A&T State University.
Also, Stephon Bowens, Executive Director and Attorney with
the Land Lost Prevention Project, and Betty Bailey, Executive
Director of RAFI USA, the Rural Advancement Foundation International.
Thank you all for being with us.
Everybody
is familiar with this national security, but food security
is a new terminology for me, but not a new terminology for
you all. Why is that so important to the people watching right
now, everyone watching? What is food security, Alton? Tell
me.
Thompson: One
thing with the terrorist attack in Washington, as well as
New York, national security is on everyone's mind. One of
the most important things that everyone forgets is that food
security is a very important part of national security. For
the first part, a nation that cannot feed itself cannot protect
itself. If terrorism invades out food supply or water supply,
it would be detrimental to this country. One other thing that
we must not forget and be ever mindful is that terrorism cannot
be prevented; however, we can reduce some of the damage by
being aware of it and also educating our public about the
possible effects of terrorism.
Holloway: Boy,
that's certainly an important theme, because everyone has
to eat. How might that-I done want to get people alarmed-but
how might that really affect.Is our food supply in a potential
threat now?
Bowens: I
don't know if our food supply is necessarily threatened, but
certainly as a result of the terrorist attacks there was a
hold on the crop dusting planes and other mechanisms that
might affect agriculture and farming. You know, you look at
the food supply from a perspective of looking at transportation,
and how the food and the food chain works, and how we receive
our food. Many people-you know you talk to an average high
school student and they'll say that the food just shows up
in the grocery store and the freezer. The reality is that
there is a process to that. So when you're talking security,
it's very important to recognize that there are local farmers
and local producers by whom we can obtain food if the means
of transportation are in some way hampered by terrorists attacks
or some other calamity. Then we to have small farmers to ensure
that our communities remain healthy and safe and have adequate
food.
Holloway: We
are certainly well reminded of that since air transportation
was stopped in September and that means a lot more now. I
guess people can understand for our local farmers here. Maybe
the Farmers' Market in North Carolina means more.
Bailey: Right
and having a relationship, or more of a direct relationship
with a farmer means more than it ever has, and there are many
opportunities for people to do that. Small farmers in the
state of North Carolina are dwindling. We have been acting
as though they are expendable and we can rely on imported
food or food from a very few large farmers. But in fact, this
current national situation points out how much it is important
for us to maintain those local farmers and those local farmers.
There are ways such as direct farmers' markets like you mentioned.
We can also begin to label our food so we know where it comes
from and who produced it and how it was produced. I think
that's becoming more and more important all over the country
and all over the world. There are now some 150 labels out
there that say in one way or another how the food was produced
and where it was produced. I know Congress was entertaining
a country of origin bill so that labels will say at least
where it came from, but the way that you could know best about
where your food comes from is to actually have a relationship
with the farmer. We are fortunate in North Carolina to still
have enough farmers in driving distance of you.
Holloway: So
if we ever had that problem, hopefully, as long as farmers
are protected in North Carolina, we shouldn't have that big
of a problem.
Thompson: Very
much so. The other issue is too that agriculture is a consumer
driven industry now, that bulk agriculture and commodity agriculture
is not as important as it used to be in this country. For
example, about 20% of agriculture is now bulk marketing or
bulk commodities, and 80% of it is specialty marketed crops
and niche markets.
Holloway: 80%?
Thompson: 80%.
Holloway: And
that means something for the small farmer.
Thompson: Exactly.
That was a good point. As Stephon and Betty were saying, there's
really a market for small or limited resource farmers in this
county. The consumer, now with the population growth declining
and the prosperity still on the rise, consumers really control
what they eat, how it is produced, and with what effects it
is produced. This market for small and limited resource farmers
is very high demand. Given the terrorist aspect of it, the
more diverse the food supply is, the more we can secure that
food supply. Again, it's very important for this country.
Holloway: So
since it is consumer driven, tell us how big of an industry
is this for North Carolina?
Thompson: The
North Carolina Agriculture is about a $46 billion industry.
It's the largest industry in this state. The US has the safest
food supply, the most abundant food supply, the most nutritious
food supply, and also the cheapest food supply. [ON-SCREEN
GRAPHIC] A very large part of that is the contribution that
the North Carolina produces, including the large producers
as well as the small limited producers. In this state, agriculture
is still the number one industry. Again, in addition to the
production of agriculture, if you think about agriculture
and agribusiness complex together, you are talking about $60
billion to the state of North Carolina, which employs about
one fifth of the work force in this state and contributes
about 20% to the state's products. So it's a very important
part of this state's economy.
Bowens: Just
to piggyback on some of the comments of Dr. Thompson, when
you look at that and you look at the import agriculture to
North Carolina's economy, sometimes we really don't put that
in a real perspective. [ON-SCREEN GRAPHIC] I know oftentimes
when we're out in the community talking to other individuals,
they don't realize that agriculture is as important and as
significant to the economy. Oftentimes everybody thinks we're
the technology leaders or we're having some new information
superhighway that's coming along and it's going to be the
panacea for many North Carolinians. And the reality is agriculture
is a business, and if we look at it as such, but we ensure
that we maintain that business, North Carolina can have a
vibrant economy for many years to come.
Holloway: Let
me talk about some of the other issues since we have this
national security thing going on here now. And Betty, maybe
I'd like to ask you, what can you tell our viewers about the
whole idea of this biosecurity now? We talked about the food
security, but there is a biosecurity threat as well, right?
Bailey: Well
I'm not sure if you are talking about the possibility of food
being contaminated, not just having enough food, but the prospects
of food or water are those things that contribute to food
production becoming contaminated.
Holloway: Right,
and specifically that threat Florida had with the crop-dusting
planes, I think; is that a threat here in North Carolina?
Bailey: I
think we have to be prepared for those kinds of things to
happen. Not too long ago we were all in, and I guess we're
still kind of in ready alert for this, but paying most attention
to hoof-and-mouth disease and the prospect of that coming
into the state. And that example, if we had that disease affecting
livestock in North Carolina we've have-I believe Dr. Thompson,
40,000 animals a day are moved out of eastern North Carolina
into other parts of the country. If we had hoof-and-mouth
we'd have to close down I-95 and those animals would be there-I
don't know if you've got room in your backyard for 40,000
animals, and I don't. And in addition to that, that supply
of food is unavailable to so many people. So that I think
argues for not concentrating where our food is grown, but
having the diversity that we're talking about, having more
small farmers, having more locations, not having it all be
dependent; and if it is contaminated how do you deal with
it when you have such a large supply in a certain part of
the state?
Thompson: Another
aspect about security too is ideal that it's widespread and
never can be prevented; however, you can contain it. And the
key thing is in particular, and Betty mentioned the foot-and-mouth
disease, is that think about agriculture in North Carolina,
60% of that profit is animal agriculture. So you think about
that, the North Carolina Department of Agriculture did an
excellent job with the threat of food-and-mouth, and we realize
that we couldn't keep it out of the country, but we at least
could put preventative measures in place to prevent, to sort
of attenuate the effect of foot-and-mouth disease. So basically
we sort of monitor the disease patterns in this country, both
with the human diseases and animal diseases. The key thing
is a widespread educational effort in terms of educating the
primary healthcare physicians, other providers, particularly
emergency room physicians about the threat of disease and
how to check the disease, as well as protecting and teaching
about preventative and medicine, particularly in terms of
security matters in terms of preventative medicine.
Holloway: Well
that brings us to really one of the main issues of why we
have you all here, is that there-speaking of education and
the diversity of farmers-there are some disparities between
black farmers, white farmers, small farmers, the industrial
farmers; and you all are directly impacting that. Stephon,
tell us about some of these disparities and the historical
significance?
Bowens: Well
historically, if we look back, for example, in the United
States, in 1920, there were about 925,000 African-American
farmers in the United States. Now there are, as of 1997 and
that's the most recent agricultural census data, there are
fewer than 18,800 African-American farmers.
Holloway: And
what was the number before?
Bowens: 925,000.
Holloway: Thousand-whew.
Bowens: And
the net effect of that is about a 98% loss over that period
of time. And when you look at that, there have to be certain
factors that go into play to cause the loss of African-American
farmers and small farmers, if you will, during that time period.
And many of the factors have to do with disparities related
to lending and access to credit. Very often farmers, as you
know, work on a very time sensitive schedule. The crops have
to be planted at a certain time and they have to be harvested
at a certain time and then they have to be delivered at a
certain time. And so the access to credit is an essential
element of that formula, and unfortunately through the United
States Department of Agriculture and some of their discriminatory
practices, many African-American farmers were not given the
credit that they otherwise would have received had they been
white and had they been treated fairly.
Holloway: Betty,
the federal government was discriminating and there was a
settlement I think, related to that. Can you explain that
for our audience?
Bailey: Well
I'm going to actually turn to Stephon, the attorney and ask
him to explain it. But that's a very important and historic
settlement and recognition of the discriminatory practices
that Stephon was talking about.
Bowens: Well
as it relates to the settlement, in 1997 there was a class
action lawsuit filed by African-American farmers called Pigford
vs. Glickman. The namesake obviously, Tim Pigford is a farmer
from North Carolina in Bladen County; Glickman was the then
acting, or the then secretary of the United States Department
of Agriculture. And the suit basically alleged that United
States Department of Agriculture officials discriminated against
African-American farmers in the extension of credit between
1981 and 1996. What was significant about that was it was
during that time period that the Reagan administration basically
dismantled the office of civil rights for the Department of
Agriculture at USDA. And that was the entity in which any
farmer who had a complaint of discrimination would normally
complain. And so as a result of that, many of the farmers
didn't receive extensions of credit, or more importantly,
during the agricultural crises in the 1980s, didn't receive
what's called loan servicing or debt restructuring, like their
white counterparts. And so as a result of that, many of the
farmers were forced into foreclosure and/or accelerated upon.
The crux of the settlement essentially provided the farmers
with, under Track A, a $50,000 cash payment, and the hope
that their debt owed to USDA would be written off; and the
average debt was about $150,000.
Holloway: So
where are we today with that?
Bowens: Today
unfortunately only about 60% of the farmers who have applied-and
there were about 23,000 farmers who applied-only about 60%
of them have been successful. But unfortunately, with the
farmers having an average debt of about $150,000, unfortunately
the average write-off was only $17,500, so many of these farmers
are still saddled with substantial debt.
Thompson: You
might want to tell the difference between track A and track
B in that suit, I think that's very important.
Bowens: Well
track B in the suit provided that the farmer could go into
what's called arbitration, and as a result of the arbitration,
the farmer could essentially allege actual damage that he
or she incurred as a result of discriminatory acts by USDA
officials and also receive any other damages that were just.
And unfortunately, there were only about 200 farmers who chose
Track B and to date there have been fewer than 25 farmers
that have been successful through that process. And that has
more to do with the manner in which the consent decree was
set up. For example, initially the farmers were not allowed
to attain what's called Discovery as a result of the class
action settlement which would show similarly situated, specifically
identified white farmers. And as a result of not having that
information, many of the farmers have been in essence kicked
out of the suit, if you will, because they could not demonstrate
that there was a white farmer who actually received the benefit
that they did not receive. And if you know anything about
credit, I can't get your credit records, so I have to get
a court order to do it, but unfortunately class counsel for
the suit chose not to do that, and that certainly has hampered
many of the farmers efforts. So although it sounded very good
when it was announced, the reality and the enforcement are
very different. Very few farmers are receiving payments. Less
than 800 North Carolina farmers have been awarded Track A
payments and fewer than 10% of those farmers received that
right off.
Holloway: Well
thank you for that very detailed explanation. I think it's
important that people understand that, and especially in light
now of why farming is so important in our state, in light
of a national security issue, and I want to quote William
Friday, host of North Carolina People, from a president, in
an analogy, in talking about black colleges, why we can't
close any of them because we can't afford to close any of
them, because they're all needed. We can't afford to lose
any farmers in this state because they're all needed. And
organizations like yours, RAFI and North Carolina A&T
State University are supporting these farmers. And let's talk
about now how they're being supported and how to improve this
business in our state.
Bailey: Well
some of the things that are helping out are providing financial
counseling to farmers and working with them as advocates,
and if necessary, as attorneys so that when farmers go to
visit with their lenders about their debt situation, which
is oftentimes for reasons beyond their control, being able
to negotiate a different arrangement and being able to remain
in farming. Because as it is in our national interest and
our state interest to have those farmers, it usually is actually
in the bank's interest or the lender's interest for the farmer
to stay in business. Their chances of recovering more are
better if the farmer remains in farming than if they leave
the farm. So there's financial counseling; there's advocacy;
there's also an amazing amount of new resources that can be
available to assist small farmers and black farmers in staying
viable through the tobacco settlement. The last figures I
saw-and y'all can correct me if they need to be updated-is
a third of the African-American farmers in North Carolina
grow tobacco.
Thompson: That's
about correct.
Bailey: So
if a whole third have depended on tobacco and the tobacco
industry is going through a phenomenal change right now. We
were talking earlier about contract arrangements, and in tobacco
just last year it was 20% of the farmers were farming in a
contract arrangement and the rest were using the normal auction
system. Now it's 80%. So just the way in which you sell your
tobacco is changing very radically. Plus, farmers have had
a huge cut in the amount of tobacco they could grow in the
quota.
Holloway: And
there's some discriminatory practices; maybe we can talk about
that.
Bailey: All
along the way, all along the way.
Holloway: Let
me transition: a lot of people in our state don't realize,
or forget that there are two state land-grant institutions,
and NC State gets a lot of attention on its cooperative extension
agriculture, but North Carolina A&T is there and focuses
a lot on the African-American and small farmers, is that correct?
Tell me what A&T does.
Thompson: That's
correct. As part of its land-grant mission, A&T has both
a very active academic program, a research program and a cooperative
extension program, and part of the extension program is really
outreach to farmers-particularly, limited resource farmers.
And one of the things we've found as Betty indicated is that
the outreach is needed, and we have the service and expertise
at the cooperative extension program at the University to
provide that assistance. And one thing, just from a community
point of view, we found out that if communities have a strong
support base of small farmers including African-American farmers,
that community does better economically in terms of the small
farmers tend to purchase locally, they contribute positively
to the tax base of that community, and they're less likely
to need services that are sort of dictated by urban sprawl.
So it makes the positive difference for the community. But
North Carolina's cooperative extension program is twofold;
we call it one system: there's one system and two locations,
one is at North Carolina State and one is at North Carolina
A&T, but the extension specialists at the University,
as well as the technicians at the University are well prepared
to help farmers, and we're doing so. And also we have agents
in the counties; we are present in 33 counties in the state,
principally in the eastern part of North Carolina where most
of the small farmers and African-American farmers are located.
But we do have a very active outreach program and we pride
ourselves in an excellent extension program and outreach.
Holloway: Now,
are the farmers utilizing both of your programs at a fairly
high rate or acceptable rate?
Bailey: I
would say we're pretty maxed-out, how about you?
Bowens: I
think so too.
Thompson: We
definitely have more mission than we have resources. All right,
so there is a critical need out there, that we can't meet
all of it. But I think given the resources that we have, we're
using those resources wisely. And again, as agriculture began
to change, again, agriculture now is highly industrialized,
it's capitalized, and you really, as Stephon said earlier,
it's a business. So getting to sort of transition from farming
being a way of life to a business is an important transition.
And so we're sort of training the farmers to be entrepreneurs,
to look at the financial markets, to look at the capital markets,
to look at how the goods are flowing, how they're transported,
to look at international markets. It takes a lot of effort
to get that mentality that farming is a business. So, at A&T
we do have the personnel in place to do that. Also, we've
identified that not only is it a business, but also having
good marketing strategies as well as financial management
plans is very important to the successful small farmer. And
small farmers can be successful. We have some case studies
where you get niche markets, specialty markets, specialty
crops and you can be successful with small farm enterprises.
Holloway: And
you said earlier that it's 80%.
Thompson: 80%.
Holloway: Stephon,
there are two things that I want to ask you about as we close
up here. We have just a few minutes left. One, your organization
was just recently successful in a suit where there was some
discrimination with contract practices. Would you talk about
that very briefly?
Bowens: Well,
very briefly, we had a poultry or chicken farmer in Eastern
North Carolina, and this particular farmer was working with
a major poultry producer in the country. That particular company,
and as you know there are probably only two really in North
Carolina and those are Purdue and Tyson's Foods. This particular
producer had enticed the farmer into making substantial improvements
on his farm in the hopes that it would provide or extend him
a contract. That was kind of the normal course of business.
What they would do is to induce the farmer to make substantial
improvements on their property, and then in turn, they would
sign contracts with them for a given year to produce a certain
number of animals to be sold. In this instance, the producer-or
excuse me, the company-was aware that the farmer had basically
informed other farmers in the community about issues related
to its practices that were illegal, in essence. As a result
of that farmer going out and getting involved in the community
and assuring that other farmers were aware of its practices,
the farmer was retaliated against by inducing him to go forward
with making these improvements and not allowing him to contract.
Holloway: Basically,
the case has been settled now.
Bowens: Yes.
Actually we received a jury verdict which found that there
were unfair and deceptive trade practices by this large corporation.
Holloway: Well,
I tell you, time has run completely out and we hope that farmers
understand that the resources are available here if they are
not aware of the Land Loss and RAFI, as well as A&T. But
also, that the general public knows that this affect you and
not just because it's national security, but food security
here too and our supply.
You have
certainly been informed of these issues and now it's up to
you to use this information to govern your choices and actions
in the future. So for more information on the items that we
discussed in tonight's program, [ON SCREEN GRAPHICS] please
visit WUNC or UNC-TV's website at www.unctv.org.
We also like to hear your comments and suggestions, and you
can send us an email or call us at 919/549-7167. Thank you
for joining us this evening. We'll see you again next Friday
night at 9:30 p.m., the new time for another edition of Black
Issues Forum. I'm Jay Holloway. You have a blessed evening.
[THEME
MUSIC]
Voiceover: This
program is made possible in part by contributions from UNC-TV
viewers like you. Thank you.
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