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Episode #1721
African-American Bookstores
and Holloway in Egypt
Holloway: Jay Holloway,
Host
McCarter: Eddie McCarter, Special Occasions Bookstore
Kambon: Dr. Kamau Kambon, Blacknificent Books and More
W. Holloway: Winston Holloway
M: Male Voice
Holloway: Stay tuned next
for a discussion on Africa from an African-American perspective.
That's next on Black Issues Forum. You stay tuned.
Voiceover: Closed captioning
of this program on UNC-TV is made possible in part by a grant
from the FM Kirby Foundation. This program was made possible
with contributions to UNC-TV from viewers like you. Thank
you.
[THEME MUSIC]
Holloway: Perhaps you
saw some of the PBS series on Africa recently. Whether you
are well informed about the continent or not, I think you'll
enjoy tonight's discussion from an African-American North
Carolinian perspective, including my own personal experience.
Good evening, I'm Jay Holloway and welcome to the 2001 season
of Black Issues Forum. With me tonight to discuss our African
roots are two of North Carolina's black bookstore owners.
First, Eddie McCarter of Special Occasions Bookstore in Winston-Salem,
and Dr. Kamau Kambon, Blacknificent Books and More in Raleigh.
Gentlemen, thank you so much for being with us. There's a
lot to talk about and I know we have a lot, so we're actually
going to talk with you tonight and we'll come back later on
in the season and talk with you more about basically ten black
literacy initiatives. UNC-TV is focusing on literacy issues
this year, and we want to focus on all the wonderful resourcesthat
are at your bookstores and how people can get more informed
on our culture and things to improve our community, but also,
understand our roots. That's what we're here to talk about
tonight.
You gentlemen, I'm sure, run
into quite a lot of people that come into your stores that
are looking and searching for something. Specifically, it
probably has something to do with our African roots. Is that
what you find, Dr. Kambon in your store in Raleigh?
Kambon: I find that many
brothers and sisters come in a search for something and they're
not quite sure what they're searching for, but I think they
have an overriding sense that they are not fulfilled, that
something is missing. Therefore, they come into the store
seeking answers to long questions that they've had about,
you know, living here in America.
Holloway: And you would
say, in your theory, that it has a lot to do with understanding
your ancestry and your roots in Africa?
Kambon: Well, I think
that it's the missing pages of African history are the missing
pages of world history. I think that it's something, endemic
that we understand that we've not been given the whole story,
and therefore, we're looking for the truth and nothing but
the truth.
Holloway: We want to talk
about that tonight and I want you to share some of the resources
that people can come to the bookstore and get. McCarter, you
probably have some of the same things, but you also say that
more youth tend to come through in looking to get more education
and resources that they're missing in their formal education.
Is that true?
McCarter: In addition
to what he has said, all kinds of parents come with their
teenagers, and sometimes even younger kids, and they're concerned
about reports or things that they're doing in class. They
feel like something is missing, going back to his statement.
They just want to make sure that the young start out with
as much truth as is possible, which is hard to do a lot of
times. They really want to make certain, or try to make certain,
to give them as sound a foundation to start from as they can.
Holloway: Well, let's
jump right into it now. What is it? It's a big answer, I know,
that folks are missing, and what part of it can they get from
books to begin that search for what's missing?
Kambon: There's a lot
missing. You know, I'm in education and I've found on every
level-elementary, middle, high school, college and graduate
school-the information is not there that really completes
the picture. There are distortions, there are untruths, there
are outright lies that falsify the real truth about Africa
and its importance. Africa is the beginning of civilization.
The Nile Valley holds the key to all concepts that were developed:
the concept of family, the concept of community, the concept
of justice, or mat. All these fundamental principles
come out of Africa. This is the whole struggle around creating
an Afro-centric curriculum, which really means to infuse the
truth into the curriculum. For example, they still talk about
Columbus discovering America. Brother McCarter pointed out
earlier. How could someone discover a place where people already
lived? So they keep putting this in the curriculum. It's not
just history. It's also in science. They talk about Herodotus
being the father of history or Hippocrates being the father
of medicine. We know for sure that Imhotep, who preceded Hippocrates
by thousands of years, was the father of medicine. So children
and families need to know this truth.
Holloway: McCarter, I'm
holding up one book now that both you have in your bookstores,
The Destruction of Black Civilization. It addresses
a lot of the points that Kambon just talked about. Do you
want to add to that?
McCarter: Well, I think
he covered it very well when he said that you can't discover
what is already in place. Our customers basically are coming
in because in other places that they have searched, they have
not been able to find the complete truth. One of the books
that I recommend to all my customers--I call it my Bible,
basically. Right after you get the Bible, you need to get
The Miseducation of the Negro. I think it's very important.
This book was first written, I believe, in 1933, but if you
read it, it will make you shiver, because what was said in
1933 stands out so much today, and we're in 2001. I encourage
all of my customers to read this. It's alarming sometimes,
because adults have a tendency to feel like, "Well, I
don't need to read this," that it's something that the
youth need to read. But I recommend it to adults. If you've
read it earlier, go back and read it again, because sometimes
you have to go back and look at it a second or third time
in order to just become so much aware of how much things still
are the same.
Holloway: Now relate that
to our African roots and African history. I mean, we've talked
about the beginning of civilization. We're talking about the
miseducation now, but where does it need to start?
Kambon: Well, it's needs
to start psychologically, emotionally and spiritually because
the core of the individual is the spirit and the psychological
foundation. There's some research in education that talks
about how everyone tries to become self-actualized. Everyone
tries to reach his or her full potential. Africans people-we're
Africans in America-we cannot reach our full potential if
we start off on the wrong psychological foot, on the wrong
emotional foot, because it distorts our whole value system.
As I pointed out, the greatness in Africa is certainly in
the gold and diamonds, but the real richness of Africa is
the high morality, the ethical codes, the value systems that
ertr started and represent the fundamental root of every civilization
on earth. So, when our children and our adults don't have
this core understanding, then we're following a value system
that's actually destructive to our essence.
Holloway: How do we put
this kind of Africa in our roots and heritage in light of
the current situation that we're going through now in this
country, of the first time in our lifetime-anybody living
right now-that we've been attacked on our soil and it's coming
from the other side of the world. What are African Americans
saying about that when they're coming into your bookstores?
McCarter: Well, it's very
interesting what is being said because, I think that when
you're black in America, you have to be paranoid in order
to survive. I've heard people have various views from, "How
do we know that it came from outside the country?" You
know when Oklahoma was first bombed, we talked about terrorists
and then we found out that the terror was within and not without.
I think a lot of people are saying that we just don't know
who caused the situation. If you want to go back historically,
we talk about the Russians trying to find the supposed person
who did this, and for years they were never able to prove
it one way or the other, so there's doubt there. That's one
start.
Holloway: Kambon?
Kambon: Well yes, there
are many, many books out on the New World Order. One is by
William Still, The New World Order. One is Behold
a Pale Horse. There's another book out now that's very
hard to get now called The Immaculate Deception: the Bush
Crime Family. So I think as an African in America, we
really have to look at the panorama of possibilities about
this. It could have been the American government itself in
order to go to the Mideast to get the oil, and also simultaneously,
to use FEMA-the Federal Emergency Management Act-to suspend
the so-called laws that exist now to accelerate the incarceration
of black people. There are over two million black people in
the prisons of America, there are over two million people
and of the two million, one million eight hundred thousand
are black people. This means that they were arrested. That
doesn't mean they were guilty of crimes. There are many possibilities
and I think that people that come in the store, even if I'm
wrong about this suspicion-that it may not have come from
outside-it could have been the Israelis. If you read The
Protocols Of The Learned Elders Of Zion, it gives you
some ideas that it could have been the Israelis. But even
if we're wrong about all of this, then it's good to think
alternatively.
NOTE: These
comments do not reflect the opinions of Jay Holloway, the
producer, or UNC-TV. For additional information on the Protocols,
see these Web sites:
http://www.adl.org/special_reports/protocols/protocols_intro.html
http://www.holocaust-history.org/short-essays/protocols.shtml
http://www.igc.org/ddickerson/protocols.html
http://www.ptialaska.net/~swampy/illuminati/zion.html
Holloway: Have you all
found that those Africans, or people of some international
source, are more informed about this or have a different perspective
on this issue after those who have gone to Africa or those
that are from some other foreign countries who come to your
bookstore?
McCarter: I would say
that generally people who've traveled more have a wider perspective.
They are more suspicious of things that are said than people
who are, let's say, home grown. I think that can probably
be said for any situation. But the more experiences that you
have, the more that it teaches you that you should observe
first, reserve your comment, observe again before you make
a decision.
Holloway: Dr. Kambon,
in your travels to Africa, has that given you a different
perspective on even this issue and these other issues?
Kambon: I think it certainly
has. I think that the brother is right that reading is so
important. Reading propels you into a whole different conceptual
framework. In education, a lot of the thinking now is about
critical thinking, being able to analyze and break things
down, to reconstruct things. This is what all these authors
have done. They have spent enormous amounts of time and their
personal money to put important information into books to
help us get a better perspective or to enhance our view of
the world. So, I think the traveling and reading-so, if people
can't travel, the reading, you can do it vicariously-and this
is how your learn.
Holloway: I want to share
a personal story because, thanks to both of you, I've gotten
books over the years that have helped my with understanding.
Now I'd like to share with you and our audience, as I said
earlier, some brief highlights of my trip to Africa. In light
of the recent terrorist attacks in our country, my trip to
Egypt had some unintended effects. I now have a better understanding
of the Islamic culture, US foreign policy and world events.
I learned firsthand why the US support of Israel is so controversial,
and in this part of the world, Jews, Muslims and Christians
have been fighting over who's right for thousands of years.
I went to Egypt during the summer in June of 2001 for the
trip of a lifetime, really. Why? My producer Deborah Holt
thought that you'd like to hear my personal story. Here it
is.
W. Holloway: My dad and
I traveled to Egypt May 31 through June 11, 2001. We had personal
English-speaking guides. Wanda and her husband, Adrian, and
their two sons, seven-year old Hasalam and five-year old Ali.
I learned a lot and it was a fun place to visit. I played
in the Mediterranean Sea all day long with my new Egyptian
friends. I went swimming in a lot of nice swimming pools.
I really liked the big water slides and my Dad and I took
a banana boat ride in the Red Sea.
When I came to Africa, I thought
it was all just scenery, but it's not all just scenery. It's
nice and has cruise boats and stuff. Now that I've seen it,
I've seen a lot that I didn't think it was going to be like.
But now it looks just so beautiful and so nice with all kind
of flowers and stuff.
Egypt is located in the northeastern
corner of Africa. About five percent of the country is where
people live along the banks of the Nile River. The river stretches
over 900 miles in Egypt and the river stretches a total of
4000 miles throughout Africa. Ancient Egyptian history dates
back to 3200 B.C. Egypt's ancient history is divided into
seven periods. The more recent history begins in 332 B.C.
and is divided into nine periods. The official name of the
country is The Arab Republic of Egypt. Fall and winter temperatures
vary between 60 and 80 degrees. In the summer, it gets between
80 and 105. Egypt's population totals six million. They speak
Arabic; however, most understand and speak English and French.
Egypt is the cradle of civilization
and a land of the blacks, the heartland of Nubians. The ancient
Egyptians were black and once were the leading people on earth.
The black Egyptians were pioneers in sciences, medicine, architecture,
writing and were the first builders in stone. The step pyramid
at Saqqara is the largest complex and historically the most
important in Egypt.
The great pyramids of Giza are
very close to the every day life of the big city of Cairo.
The pyramids are very big. Look closely. That's me standing.
The pyramids are square at the base. The length of each side
and the height are equal to two and a half football fields.
Each block is at least ten yards or 30 feet long.
My dad and I also went on a camel
ride, and Hasalam and I rode horses near the pyramids. Next
we went the short distance to the Sphinx. People are unclear
how the nose and lips were broken off.
Cairo is one of the world's most
crowded and poor cities. It's Egypt's capital and the largest
city in both Africa and the Middle East. The city has more
than 16 million people. That's twice the number of people
in the state of North Carolina. Alexandria, the country's
second largest city, has a population of 5.5 million people
. The city of Cairo is a mixture of the old and new. It has
just as many KFCs, MacDonalds and Pizza Huts as any city in
the US.
We always felt safe, but we were
a little nervous. While we were in Egypt, the world's most
wanted man, Osama bin Laden, was somewhere in the Middle East
video taping his warning to America. His two top aids are
from Egypt-the ones who planned the attack on America. The
Egyptians welcome American tourists like we are their brothers
and sisters. And we are. Most Egyptians thought that my dad
and I were Egyptian.
It was cool to be in the same
place where so many important things happened in the Bible.
Egypt is the only other country besides Israel where the Holy
Family visited. This is the Fortress of Babylon and next to
it is a ___ church. The church was later built on the site
where Joseph, Mary and Jesus stayed. The church was founded
by St. Mark. He considered it holy ground. Like Moses did
in Egypt, my Daddy took off his shoes and knelt and prayed.
Look closely at these paintings
on the wall. They were discovered under a thin layer of paint.
Christians had to worship in secret and this is how they hid
any evidence of their faith. In the early days, Christians
were punished for their faith in Jesus Christ. The Christians
in Egypt belong to the Coptic Church and today they remain
small in number compared to the Muslims, who represent 85%
of the Egyptian population.
M: That's a mosque there
too.
M: We brought back samples
of sand and water from the Red Sea, the Mediterranean Sea,
the Nile River and Sahara Desert. My dad says that the history
of Africans worldwide is one of the world's best kept secrets.
If you get a chance, you should
visit Egypt, too. It's a great place to learn and to have
fun. I was also glad to get back home to America and North
Carolina.
Holloway: You've been
watching pictorial excerpts from my trip to Egypt this past
summer. We're back in the studio now with black bookstore
owners from across the state. Ed McCarter of Special Occasions
in Winston-Salem and Dr. Kamau Kambon, Blacknificent Books
and More in Raleigh.
Gentlemen, there is apparently
a movement to get more into our roots and really look at psychologically
back to Africa and looking at all of our aspects. Let's spend
the last few minutes talking about that and where we should
go from here in terms of getting a better understanding of
African roots.
Kambon: Well, I think
first of all, that a person doesn't necessarily have to go
to school in order to get an education. I think there's a
difference between having a degree and having an education.
Therefore, everyone can read and educate himself or herself.
I think that it's very important to understand that when we
understand Africa and African history, we will come to the
realization that we are not minorities, we are not third world
people and we were never slaves, but we were an enslaved people.
Being enslaved, we come from people who were kings, who were
queens, who were carpenters, who were architects-the mothers
and fathers of civilization.
Holloway: Let me say right
now for those who want to question your sources, I know that
you have books and we have many of them here, but reference
some of the books that people can get some documentation in
support of what your saying.
Kambon: The Destruction
of Black Civilization, Nile Valley Contributions to
Civilization, by Dr. Anthony Browder. A Black Man of
the Nile by Dr. Ben-Jochannan. Dr. John Henry Clark has
a litany of books that he has published. Christianity Before
Christ, by John Jackson. The list is endless.
McCarter: And there are
posters that will help in some cases if you don't want to
do all the reading. It will just list various inventions that
Africans have been a part of to get you on the right page
so that you can get further information.
Holloway: So people can
find these resources in stores like you gentlemen own.
Kambon: That's right.
You can't find these books in other bookstores. [LAUGHS] Because
why would they have this information in other books to help
you liberate yourself? Somebody who is oppressing you is not
going to educate you so you can liberate yourself. I want
to add that our brightest people never went to school. The
people who were great thinkers never went to college and had
degrees and doctorate degrees, but they were brilliant, brilliant
people. A lot of our scholars, although they do have degrees,
they felt it imperative to pass this knowledge on. This is
why we always honor our ancestors for the great legacy that
they've given us.
Holloway: This kind of
education you can get for yourselves by reading these materials.
There was an article in The Chronicle that you shared
with me, McCarter, that $356 million dollars by blacks on
books in the year 2000. Now, there aren't as many black bookstores
as you referenced that are offering this kind of thing, but
do you think many of the big bookstore chains are going to
begin to offer these? Is there a demand for these types of
books?
McCarter: I doubt seriously
if they will offer it. In fact, jokingly sometimes when I
talk to other black bookstore owners about the other people-I
won't call their names, the large bookstores, in quotes, know
who they are-but they really aided our store to a large degree
because they put all the small white bookstores out of business.
They were beginning to carry some of the materials because
when they were requested, and you live in a neighborhood and
the guy on the corner keeps asking, "When are you going
to get my book? When are you going to get my book?" you
eventually catch on. You say, "Well, I'll get this so
he'll leave me alone." But the larger stores simply ignore
the people and tell them things like, "I'll get it for
you in a couple of weeks." You can get any book in America
you want in a day or two. So to tell you two weeks" is
merely a way of putting you off, or have you pay for the book
before it arrives, or charge you more for the shipping and
handling of it. But that's just the part that you bear as
a business owner, the fact that you decide to go into business.
Holloway: Very quickly,
we're just about out of time. What are you offering that's
really unique, Kambon?
Kambon: We're offering
black people a chance to become "blacknificent."
Blacknificent means "to be more than magnificent"
but it takes some work to become blacknificent. So each of
us has a lot of work to do individually, psychologically,
emotionally and sankofa to go back fetch the best of
your history and your past.
Holloway: Well, I want
to thank you all. We've run completely out of time, but we're
going to have you guys back. We want our audience to stay
tuned for when that's going to be. We want to talk about other
resources and how we can lift ourselves up as a people and
using these resources, and help us to become more literate
in these areas. Thank you so much.
I want to leave you with a quote
from Carter G. Woodson, the author of The Miseducation
of the Negro. "Philosophers have long conceded that
every man has two educations: that which is given to him and
the other, that which he gives himself. Of the two kinds,
the latter is by far the more desirable. Indeed, all that
is most worthy in man, he must work out and conquer for himself.
It is that which constitutes our real and best nourishment.
What we are merely taught seldom nourishes the mind like that
which we teach ourselves."
I'm Jay Holloway. You have a
blessed evening and a good night.
[THEME MUSIC]
M: This program was made
possible by contributions to UNC-TV from viewers like you.
Thank you.
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