Lewis: Mitchell Lewis, Host
Hodge: Dr. Johnny B. Hodge, Director of Music, North Carolina A & T State University
Thompson: Bluford Thompson, Drum Major, NC A&T State
Lassiter: Kim Lassiter, Clarinet Section Leader, NC A&T State
Stephens: Dominque Stephens, Trombone Section leader, NC A&T State
Richberg: Chris Richberg, Trumpet Section Leader, NC A&T State
Benton: Byron Benton, Drum Section Leader, NC A&T State
Walls: Whitney Walls, Captain of Golden Light
Brown: Tiffany Brown, Advisor of Golden Delight
M: Male Voice

Lewis: Up next, the 24 year maestro behind NC A&T's blue and gold marching machine who now says he's handing over his white gloves. Learn about the legacy he leaves next on Black Issues Forum

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Lewis: Good evening and welcome to Black Issues Forum. I'm Mitchell Lewis.

Tonight we bring you a special profile. Students at his university say he has created a legacy of loyalty. Since his appointment as Director of Music at North Carolina's A&T Marching band in 1980, Dr. Johnny B Hodge has mastered his craft, leading the band to world-class status. His work however has extended beyond that of the title band director. To many of his students, he has been not only their instructor, he's been a mentor, a role model, a father figure whose high standards have helped them become young men and women of character and excellence. He is the director of North Carolina A&T State's award winning marching band and he's our profile guest tonight. In just a few minutes we're going to meet and talk with Dr. Johnny B. Hodge, Jr. But first let's take a brief look at the small band with the big sound that was once the official band for the Carolina Panthers pro football team, the blue and gold marching machine.

But first, it's gonna be mean, its gonna be clean We call it what? The Aggie Team. Watch out, they're not just clean and mean, they're the twin drum majors for the North Carolina A&T blue and gold marching machine. Weekend after weekend during college football season fans gather to cheer on and to be dazzled by the high stepping precision and funk of their favorite team's marching band. What drives this machine? Is it the majesty and brilliance of their uniform presentation, or the way they work the crowd into a frenzy? We asked drum major Bluefort Thompson.

Thompson: You know you got the drums playing, the crowd's roaring, there's more adrenaline pumping. I've marched games hurting so bad but once I hear all of that, the music playing real loud and all of this, adrenaline and something else takes over and it's just an incredible feeling. The person that I get it from is Dr. Hodge. He says everyday, "You have to emulate your band director." Leadership, you know, is a direct reflection of how the unit is going to be run, so I try to go from him.

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Lewis: Preparing the kind of dynamic show that crowds love and students want to perform in takes more than talent and strict discipline. By investing in each student, Dr. Hodge engenders mutual trust and respect.

Lassiter: Dr. Hodge, I have to say, has been one of the bigger influences of me being here. I think I would've quit a long time ago if it hadn't been for him.

Stephens: He's been a tremendous father figure as well. Being away from home and not being able to get home when I really needed to either talk with my parents or just have them to be there to talk with, I know I could always come in and depend on him to give me good advice and guidance to what I need to do. So I really enjoyed it and I'm going to miss that he's leaving.

Lewis: And now let's meet the man who's been the conductor of North Carolina A&T's blue and gold marching machine for over thirty years now-or close to 30 years-Dr. Johnny B. Hodge, Jr. Welcome to Black Issues Forum.

Hodge: Thank you. It's a pleasure being here.

Lewis: Now when you first arrived back on A&T's campus back in '73, what was going through your mind?

Hodge: Well, I wanted to be a good , efficient assistant director of bands to Mr. Walter Carlson.

Lewis: Now, what is your reaction after seeing the piece when the students talk about how great an influence they have had, that you have had on their lives.

Hodge: It's actually overwhelming, because you have a position, you do your best and you hope along the way you will influence students positively and that's what you have to do. Actually we're teachers, we're in the band industry, you do it all. You're a father figure, sometimes you're a momma figure, you have to be what's necessary at the moment and you have to have a certain knack, I guess, to communicate with students, because each person is different. And you have to address each of their needs differently. And this is what I try to do to the best that I can.

Lewis: As well as dealing with college students you're also a member of the Guilford County School Board. Looking at the situation involving kids in grades K-12, do you see things that positively or negatively impact them, especially when they come to see you on the upper level there?

Hodge: I think students in K-12 have a tendency to emulate what they see in higher education, if it's positive. And I think anytime college students are observed, they need to realize that they are role models for a certain student, so they must be on their P's and Q's at all times and they should try to live by examples that other students will want to be like, and that parents will want their child to emulate.

Lewis: What do you think makes the blue and gold marching machine so unique?

Hodge: I think it's the work ethic. My theory is that there are no gains without pain and no one owes you anything but an opportunity to be successful. And either you can take advantage of that opportunity or you don't have to. And I think that's one of the things that we try to do in the band program at A&T is to show the students where we can go and let them know that it's up to them if they want to reach the top of the hill, and we try to get there. And I am a driver. I am a very strict disciplinarian. And some kids call me a nut, but the point is, it's what comes out in the wash that matters. It's your finished product. If you have had some positive influence on a child for four years or young person for four years, it's worth whatever you have to do to get them there. And you want them to graduate cause that's why they're in college, to have those degrees.

Lewis: Now are there any other particular bands that you know may impress you-although you're with A&T-but are there other bands that impress you?

Hodge: Yes, every opportunity I have I like to see the University if Michigan's band, at Ann Arbor, I like to see Southern Cal's band. In my opinion those are the top two bands in the nation. They're quick-step bands and they play a lot of the themes that we play. As a matter of fact, Mr. Carlson went to the University of Michigan and he brought what Dr. Ravelli was doing at Michigan down to A&T. If you would look at the University of Michigan's uniforms, their colors, and you look at A&T's colors, they're the same. So that's a tie there. He did his Master's there way back in the day.

Lewis: Now the band is referred to as the small band with the big sound. How many people actually make up the band, including your support staff?

Hodge: Well, there are eighteen people on the support staff, and all those people are former students of mine. That's by choice. And there are a hundred and sixty instruments and there are twenty young ladies that make up what we call Golden Delight. And that's the Marching Machine.

Lewis: Now of course the band members have to be musically inclined, but there's also some physical training that they must undergo as well.

Hodge: Yes, each student is required during band camp to bring a valid health form there, and we look through each form to make that they don't have any problems, with say like breathing or marching or calisthenics. Because it's very hard doing band camp. And it's hot; it's during the middle of the summer; and we have to make sure students are able to do the rigorous activities that we carry on during band camp, because if we don't have a health form we won't let them march. It's a necessity to protect the student and to protect the university.

Lewis: What's your instrument of choice?

Hodge: I'm a tuba major. I majored in tuba at North Carolina Central.

Lewis: Now with all the travel that's involved with the band, what advice do you give your students as far as managing their time and keeping up their grades?

Hodge: Well, in order to be a successful student you have to spend a certain amount of time on your studies, or in your studies, however you want to put it. And, like this year for example, I've had a student saying, "Dr. Hodge, I have study session or a work session," and I excuse them because see the bottom line is the degree. It's not the band. The band in my opinion is like the icing on the cake. For students at college to graduate with the degree in whatever area they want to be in. So it's up to me. We work hard and I demand a lot of time, but I must realize that those kids, they are to become educated young men and women, and I try to give them that. Now sometimes, I might go over the end but then I try to give it back to them on the other side. But I know why they're there.

Lewis: Thank you Dr. Hodge. Now we've been talking with Dr. Johnny Hodge, Director of Bands at North Carolina A&T State University and we'll find out what it takes to pull a Saturday operation together. Now let's meet some of the students and get a behind the scenes look at what they go through to prepare for game day.

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Richberg: I know a lot for people see a black college band and think we're going to dance, we're going to play loudly, out of tune all the time. But I think we kind of disregard that myth when we play the classical music, play the grade six music, when we play things that people don't expect us to play actually.

Lewis: Chris Richburg is the section leader for the trumpets and, like many of his fellow band members, he is also an honor student. His message to the trumpet section:

Richberg: Play with some kind of musicality; make it sound good, but make sure that everybody in the world can hear it.

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Lewis: Another prominent element in any marching band is the percussion and rhythm.

Benton: I look at the drum line like a heart line, and you know when you're in the hospital and they have you on the-it's going beep, beep, and when the drum line stops, you get a straight line. And the band dies. But if the drum line's thumping, that's all she wrote. That's it. My faith motivates me to do my best. The God I serve is of excellence, and everything I do, he has to get the glory out of my life. And the only thing that he can get glory out of is my best.

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Lewis: The most glamorous aspect of the band is its auxiliary.

Walls: Cause we're like the icing on the cake. The band is the pound cake and we're the icing, so we call ourselves Golden Delight.

Lewis: Whitney Walls is the captain of the Golden Delight. She and the other young ladies work closely with the advisor, Tiffany Brown, who helps makes sure this unit appropriately highlights the band.

Brown: I would say that Golden Delight exemplifies black culture because we stand for what most young women should strive to be. All these ladies are in college, they are educated. They have wonderful attitudes, great personalities, and they work very hard.

Lewis: In addition to hard work, there's another ethic that Dr. Hodge instills in his students.

Terry: Loyalty, loyalty, loyalty. I can't say that enough. You have to be dedicated. You know what I mean. You almost have to be on a mission.

CROWD: LOYALTY

Terry: You have to do your part. That's what Dr. Hodge always says. You have to have that winning mentality. So you have to be a winner for one and you also have to be focused.

Lewis: Right now this group, the dance committee, is focused on creating steps for the upcoming face-off against Hampton.

Ricktor Craig, Trumpet Player: The field show consists of formation but during the dance routine, or as we call it the freak meet, are doing songs and moves that are going to catch the attention of the crowd. We usually don't go over the edge. We usually keep it clean because we always remember that we have alumni there and we have to keep in mind that the chancellor is also there so we have to keep our moves pretty in context of the whole show.

Lewis: Finally after an indoor rehearsal and warm up, the band and auxiliary march to the field to put it all together. Tonight they'll learn the new dance, practice new music, and work to perfect the show for Saturday.

M: What we try to do is be a class act. We're a black college so we're going to get down, but we don't get too down. There's limit and we don't try to cross that barrier in any kind of way. Dr. Hodge treats the auxiliary as if they were his daughters because he has, in actuality, had a daughter on this squad, so he doesn't, you know. He treats us all like children.

Wallis: He's a great leader. He's very straightforward and he don't take any myth. You can't get over on Dr. Hodge; he's real thorough and I like that about him and I try to be like him.

Hodge: We can do some things in the feature tune to get the ten seconds off and we'll be able to do it, so be in the band room at five tomorrow. See you then. Good enough.

Lewis: But that's not the end of practice. Students remain even after the dismissal to practice the steps again and again and again until they feel ready to face Saturday's arch-rival Hampton University.

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M: What we want to give the audience is we want to entertain them. Because they come out to a football game. I mean you worked all week, you come to a game to have fun. I think most people are at the game at halftime, so we try to do things, play the songs that everybody's going to-"oh that's my song." We want to make the crowd feel good.

Lewis: At halftime Hampton performs first. They're a worthy band, but they're in Aggie territory. Now it's time for the blue and gold. Today Cedric flies solo. Taking Dr. Hodges advice, Lou decided to hang back and prepare for final exams. Cedric holds it down. And once again the crowd is wowed.

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Lewis: And we're back with Dr. Johnny Hodge, Director of Bands for North Carolina A&T State University. Now in that piece one of your students said that it's really hard to pull one over on you, but I understand that you have pulled a few pranks of your own throughout the years, and one of them involved, I believe, a fake injury that took place during a homecoming game. Tell me a little bit about that.

Hodge: Yes, a couple of years ago Bethune-Cookman's band was there and they have about four hundred people in that band. And I knew I needed to do something to get the edge and get the crowd involved. So I was thinking about what could we do as small as we were, if you compare us with them. And I decided that I would bring my drum major in on a helicopter. So just before half, all of a sudden Blueford Thompson became ill. And we carried him out and went by the health center and made it all look legitimate, but we took him around to the back of the stadium and he walked across the field and got into the helicopter. So as the other band was going across the field I told the chopper driver to take it up so they wouldn't steal the complete crowd. So instead of the people looking at Bethune-Cookman coming off the field they were just, "Why is this helicopter over us here?" And they were just amazed that the helicopter was there. And they disregarded BCC all together-that's the Bethune-Cookman college. And so as the last person reached the sidelines, the man set the helicopter down on the fifty-yard line and then Blueford came out and that was it. We didn't have to do anything else. It just won the crowd over, so everything that we did during the homecoming was just wildly applauded by everybody there. And that's par for course. You have to outthink your competition.

Lewis: Absolutely. Now you tend to pick your bandleaders other than going through an audition. Why is that?

Hodge: Well, when I first started doing this we had the audition process and many students-it was open to freshman, sophomores, juniors and seniors-and we chose a couple year students who were outstanding high school drum majors and majorettes. Now the majorettes still, the Golden Delights still go through the process of auditioning. But I chose the drum majors based on their dedication, their playing ability, their marching ability and their leadership skills. See, as a drum major you must have peer approval and your peers must respect you, and I'm noticing students, how they interact with other students all during the time that they're there for their first two years. And then their junior year, that's when they're usually chosen as drum majors.

Lewis: You've won various awards and recognitions. Is there one particular award that's really significant to you?

Hodge: Yes, in 1991 there was competition between the HBCU bands in Atlanta. And at that time, I think we were marching 96 students, and Alabama State had something like 250 or 300, Alabama A&M. All the other bands were very, very large. And they were, as a matter of fact, when our band marched into the-that was the old Fulton County Stadium, where it was held-but we marched in, all the other bands were booing us, "Why are they here, a high school band?" And duh-duh-duh-duh. And I just told the kids, I said listen, that will not keep us from winning this thing. How bad do you want it? Do want to be an also-ran or do you want to win? And they looked at me, said "We're gonna win it." I said, say it louder. I mean we literally had a pep rally going on there on the sideline before we went on the field. And I don't know whether that skewed the judge's opinion of us or what, but those kids performed as if it was their last performance on earth. It was unbelievable. And even the bands that were there stood for them. And when they said A&T State University, I told them, I said you won it. And that's what they did.

Lewis: Do you hear from some of your past band students? Have some of them decided to continue their careers in music?

Hodge: Quite a few of them are band directors in the state of North Carolina, Virginia, DC area, Maryland area, and down at DeKalb County in the Atlanta, Georgia area.

Lewis: And of course you're talking about retiring. Why?

Hodge: Well you know, it's time. I owe it to my family, my wife's been very patient with me, with the band. And I really owe it to my family.

Lewis: So what do you plan to do next?

Hodge: Enjoy my grandchildren. I work as a volunteer to the public schools, there, since I'm on the school board I like to be involved-I will be involved with young people doing something and with whatever I can do to make my community a better place. That's what it's all about. That's why we're put here, to make a difference.

Lewis: Now as you get ready to leave A&T, there are some out there who say that historically black colleges and universities have served their usefulness. Do you still believe that there is a place for HBCUs today?

Hodge: Yes, because I'm a product of an HBCU. I graduated from High School at Henderson Institute; it was a segregated school. I graduated from North Carolina Central. At that time it was basically a segregated college. And I think that you have to know from where you come, to appreciate where you are today. I think kids-now, I did my Masters at UNC-G, I did my doctorate at American. But I think for some students, the HBCU is needed. For other students, they can melt in society easier. But I think they should have options to make a choice. Because I wear a size 12 shoe, that shoe is not going to fit everybody, and everybody has different abilities, different backgrounds and we should give students options. I'm not saying that we must hold onto what was past, but I'm simply saying provide an opportunity for our students to become educated. If the HBCU is functional, let's keep them; if it's not functional, do away with it.

Lewis: What do you consider to be instrumental in your success as band director for all these years?

Hodge: Hmm.good question. First of all, the support of my family, and I think that it was my upbringing in Henderson, that, my grandmother used to say, if it's worth doing, do it well, whatever you do. If you're not going to give it your best, just don't do it, and that has been my-how I've done everything in music from junior high school band director, high school band director, to a college band director. If I'm going to do it, I'm going to give it 100% or I'm not going to do it at all. And you need God to help you along the way, because it's kind of rough sometimes.

Lewis: What do you want folks at A&T as well as others to remember about you?

Hodge: Well that I could be a very compassionate person when I needed to be. I helped students whenever I could, I did whatever I could. But then, at other times, in band rehearsals and when we're trying to perfect something, I'm probably an S.O.B.

Lewis: What advice would you give to the younger generation?

Hodge: Be serious about what you're doing. I think that a lot of people don't know this out of me, but I think that you have to put God first, and you put your family next, and then you're next and you go for it just like it's the last moment you have on earth. You can't be reserved about the things, what you want to become, you should go for it with gusto. You can't sit back and say I'll wait. You never can wait; because the time you wait, you'll miss the opportunity. And opportunities only touch you one time. You have to take advantage of them.

Lewis: Do you have any type of special motto or how you decide that life should be lived?

Hodge: It should be lived in such a way that when you look in the mirror each morning to shave, you should say: I like me. I'm pleased at what I'm doing, I'm pleased at the people whose lives I've changed and the ones that I continue to change. And you hope that your strong points will outweigh the weak points. Because we all have strong points and weak points, and you strive to make sure that those strong ones are up here and the weak ones are down here, because we are fallible. None of us are infallible.

Lewis: Dr. Johnny B. Hodge, director of bands at North Carolina A&T State University over 30 years-well, close to 30 years at A&T, but 20 of those as the band director. Congratulations on your retirement and continued success.

Hodge: Thank you very much. My pleasure.

Lewis: And we thank you for watching Black Issues Forum this evening. If you would like to learn more about tonight's guest, please visit our web site at www.unctv.org, or you can call us with your comments at 919-549-7167. We do listen to you calls and appreciate your feedback. We heard from several viewers on last week's program on reparations. And as we close, we'd like to share with you some of those responses. I'm Mitchell Lewis. Good night.

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