2002-03 Broadcast Season
Broadcast Program Transcripts
Episode #1811
Blacks on Film

Lewis: Mitchell Lewis, moderator
S. Lee Spike Lee, filmmaker-director
M. Lee Marc Lee, President and CEO, Lee Entertainment
Moon Fable Moon, filmmaker
M: Unidentified male voice
F: Unidentified female voice

Voiceover: I’d say he has inspired me the most through the films that he has done, the way that he goes about getting them accomplished by any means necessary. He does whatever it takes to get the film done, basically.

Lewis: Coming up, we’ll hear from filmmaker and director Spike Lee, and find out—are African-Americans truly being counted in the Tarheel state as it becomes a greater part of the Tinseltown image? We’ll also talk to local filmmakers about the opportunities for aspiring African-American filmmakers here in North Carolina. That is next, on Black Issues Forum.

[THEME MUSIC]

Voiceover: This program was made possible by contributions to UNC-TV from viewers like you. Thank you.

[THEME MUSIC]

Lewis: Good evening and welcome to Black Issues Forum. I’m Mitchell Lewis. According to a US Department of Commerce report published in January, 2001, North Carolina is one of the top filmmaking states in the nation. Since 1980, the Tarheel state has attracted over 600 features, nine network television series, and more than six billion dollars in production revenue. But how do African-American filmmakers equate into that figure? Are the opportunities available to them to be well represented in the industry? Recently, producer Deborah Holt caught up with acclaimed filmmaker, writer, and director Spike Lee at the Black Pages annual Black Expo in Wilmington, North Carolina.

F: There is going to be a point in time where, yes, the doors have been opened, and yes, we will have arrived in terms of ownership, and places—having many roles for African-American actors and actresses. What does arriving mean to you?

S. Lee: For me, arrival will be when we become part of the gatekeepers. These are the people who make the decisions about which films get made and which films don’t get made. Which TV shows get made, which TV shows don’t get made. Which artists get signed to deals and which artists don’t get signed to deals. That is where the power is. I always use the term “gatekeepers.”

F: How do you believe that we can get there? What are we not doing now that we could be doing, or should be doing?

S. Lee: We have to realize where the power is. I think sometimes we are so happy to be in front of the camera or on a TV show. In football they have this play called the “misdirection” play, where you think the ball is going this way, but the guy is running down the field the other way. We’ve gone with the misdirection play, because we aren’t really looking to see where the power is. Where the power is is where the decisions are made.

F: There seems to be a gap between the number who are producing something, and the number of films that are actually getting seen and getting distributed.

S. Lee: You are always going to have that. That is just natural. There are usually only one or two spots open, and hundreds of thousands or who knows how many trying to get into that spot. That is not even a black thing, that is just the way it is. For me, I think the people that become successful are the ones that are really talented and the ones who have the drive. Sometimes it’s not just about talent.

F: If it’s not just about talent, what more do people need to know? I know that there are some young people out there wanting to know, so please tell us.

S. Lee: Number one, I don’t think that anyone trying to get into this industry should think—whether it is myself, or Denzel, or whoever it is—that they will all-of-a-sudden find the key to success. That is just not reality. You can get some words of guidance and encouragement and, really, that’s about it.

Lewis: And tonight we have two local filmmakers to help shed some light on the issue of African-American filmmakers in the Tarheel state. Marc Lee is a filmmaker, and president and CEO of Lee Entertainment in Durham, a full-service entertainment business. For those of you who have watched this program over the years, Marc is the son of former Black Issues Forum host, Valeria Lee. Fable Moon is a filmmaker, and visual interpretist for BLASH! Universe which portrays the lifestyles and works of local and national artists who make positive contributions to their community. Fable is a Chapel Hill native. To both of you, welcome to Black Issue Forum.

Moon: Thank you.

M. Lee: You’re welcome.

Lewis: Mr. Lee, I’ll start off with you. How did you get started in the filmmaking industry?

M. Lee: Well, actually, I first got started in the filmmaking industry by getting involved with the film festival that the Hayti Heritage Center has been hosting for the last eight years. We are actually getting ready to celebrate our ninth year in February, and have had the pleasure of working with a whole lot of the area filmmakers here in the community. And through that, I’ve also met some aspiring filmmakers, and tried to get their project off the ground as well. Actually, Fable is one of the filmmakers who we’ll be showing this coming February. We’ll be showing her film that she did just recently.

Lewis: And how did you get your career started?

Moon: Mine was a little bit different. I started out—there was actually a situation going on in Chapel Hill about three or four years ago that dealt with the homelessness situation. At that time, Time Warner was allowing people to come to their public access, and have people rent out cameras and things of that nature. And I just dropped in on the studio one day to come in and rent out the camera, and they said, “Hey, jump on the camera over here.” And I was like, “I don’t know how to run that camera.” And they were like, “Well, you will soon.” It was basically just “drop me in the water,” and then it just kept going from there.

Lewis: Is that start typical?

Moon: No, I don’t think so. Actually, you have to have it within you probably from long before that—an interest in it.

Lewis: As for you, is that typical for you?

M. Lee: I would say that that is not necessarily the typical way that filmmakers get involved. You definitely have to have that kind of interest. Some of the filmmakers that I’ve met, as well as my own involvement in the film industry—it’s an interest that’s been existing for a long time. And it’s one that you just have to have that patience and that persistence with. I mean, if I had one thing to tell aspiring filmmakers out there, is that they definitely need to maintain that persistence, because it’s definitely a rough world out there, and you are going to hit those hard knocks, and I’ll tell you about later on.

Moon: That’s true.

Lewis: Okay, we’ll get to that. Miss Moon, were there any mentors that you had as far as getting into filmmaking?

Moon: There were mentors. There was one in particular, with the same station that I started out with—Don Yanovic. He just basically took me under his wing and encouraged me to do as much as I could in the studio, go out in the field, and whatever I was interested in, as far as topics and what was going on in the world, he said, “Definitely. Talk about it. Film it and just let other people see what’s going on. People are interested in seeing what your vision is.” So definitely, yes.

Lewis: Now, you just recently completed a film entitled Paper Fools, and we have an excerpt from that. Set it up for us. Tell us what it’s about.

Moon: Paper Fools is basically something that came from a fable, literally a fable. It’s something that has a lesson to be learned. It basically asks the question of, “What would you do for money?” Thus, the name came about—Paper Fools—paper, of course, being money. The situation is that this young lady is in her senior year of college. She has run out of money for tuition. She has faced so many obstacles and she wants to finish on time. Her family is really behind her, but not financially, so she has to find other means in order to be able to complete her goal.

Lewis: Okay, so let’s take a look at Paper Fools.

Moon: Okay.

M: They need a distraction.

F: So that’s where you come in?

M: ___ yes. You’re in school. You know. Human culture will always find a way to destroy itself.

F: So we should just capitalize off of the foolish.

M: I was born into this world, I didn’t make it. I was born into ____. I’ve got an obligation. I will not—I cannot—disappoint the family! Now, you and I can help each other. I know you are strapped. I’ll make it worth your while.

F: Look, I’m doing this strictly out of necessity. Once I pay my tuition, I’m out.

M: Cool.

Lewis: That sounds like a lot of us who went through college.

Moon: [LAUGHS] Right.

Lewis: Mr. Lee, were there any mentors in your life when you went into this industry?

M. Lee: Yes, there have definitely been some mentors and some people that are doing some really progressive things in the film industry here in the area. Thomas I. McDonald is one that has done some film work. He actually has done a kind of docudrama that was based on the Hamlet fires, and things of that nature. It was kind of a choreopoem type deal that was definitely inspirational. David Merritt is another filmmaker from around the area that has done quite well, and there are some others that are right here in the North Carolina area that are doing some work there. Even some that are coming up right now as we are talking. I’m thinking about Kurt Griffin and Derrick Mangum, who have worked on several films right here in the area and are getting quite a reputation, hitting the festival circuits, not just here, but even nationally. I believe they have even gone internationally, or they are at least exploring the international market.

Lewis: Now you’ve brought some clips with you as well, from some local filmmakers. The first one, Coffee, Tea, or Milk—tell us what that is about.

M. Lee: Yeah, that’s a filmmaker out of the Charlotte area, Natasha Morris. One of the things that she did was explore how even though we are in the new millennium, and a whole new century, we are still getting caught up in the whole skin-tone game. Particularly on the dating level, where people are still playing mind games and things of that nature based on the shades and hues of our various people.

Lewis: Okay, so let’s take a look at Coffee, Tea, or Milk.

M: I get very defensive, even felt guilty for being with her. A woman that I admired and adored very much.

M: See, I had to stop living my life based on the general consensus telling me what is right or socially acceptable.

M: You know what? To be an educated black man, you sound just about as dumb as him.

M: I had to stop pacifying black folk’s anger and resentment based on who I was with. I mean, like I owe you or anybody else an apology. For what?

M: Exactly.

M: Being happy?

[OVERLAPPING DIALOGUE]

M: The point is, the black woman. Look, I’m just not attracted to black women, it’s that simple. Black women are too mean, too loud, too obnoxious, too needy, too ghetto, and too damn demanding.

Lewis: Sort of gives you flashbacks from Spike Lee’s School Daze from a while back.

M. Lee: Definitely.

Lewis: You also have another clip, and it’s entitled Prelude to Matrimony. Give us a little insight about what that is about.

M. Lee: I definitely will. That actually is a filmmaker that is connected with Duke University, an African-American filmmaker by the name of Shana Harris-Peterson. In this particular work, she is thinking that she is on her way to the altar, but she encounters the other lady that the gentleman is also involved with, and so it looks like the marriage might be heading the opposite direction, and not happening.

Lewis: Here is a look at Prelude to Matrimony.

F: You know all about commitment and devotion, don’t you?

F: Why are you doing this?

F: Because I love him, and he loves me. That’s usually why these things happen.

F: No, timing is why things like this happen. He met you first. And if he loves you so much then why is he messing around with—I mean, I just think you are fooling yourself.

F: You know what I think? I think you want him, because you think you can have him.

F: I’m not doing this because I think I can have him! I can have anybody.

F: He doesn’t love you!

F: I’m not the one he doesn’t love.

Lewis: Well, I’ll make no comment about that one whatsoever. [LAUGHTER] How are these film producers these days—how do they have the equipment, or have access to the equipment, in order to produce these types of films?

M. Lee: You have them doing things in different ways. Some of the people, like the people over at Duke, have the Free Water Studios. I believe that that’s where Fable also used some of their equipment.

Moon: Yes.

M. Lee: Some of the other universities—I know that St. Aug has some filmmaking equipment that they make use of to their students as well as to the general community. And you are also finding quite a few that are exploring the whole notion of at least learning the training on TV and video through the cable channels and things of that nature.

Moon: Right, I agree. That is exactly what I did. I did work with Duke—the Free Water Films—this summer. They helped me a lot doing the post-production that I had to do. When I was in New York, I was able to use some of the cameras at the local stations. It still doesn’t make it any easier, even though the access is greater. Because not having your own equipment and—say there’s a day that you want to shoot that’s a brilliant day to go out and create a scene, and—“oh, wait a minute..!” But that day, you have to wait until the weekend, or you have to wait until that camera is available. There are two sides to it. I definitely would recommend getting with your local colleges and stations. They have the equipment, and you can definitely use it.

Lewis: As you were starting as a filmmaker, what were some of the challenges that you faced?

Moon: Equipment was the number one thing. Having the proper tools to be able to go out and create your vision. That’s the number one thing. If you don’t have a camera, then you can’t create that vision. Having enough time and resources is also a challenge. Being able to talk to a crew or being able to come up with different actors is difficult. Trying to coordinate different people’s schedules is difficult. When you don’t have the big budget, you can’t set aside six weeks in a block, and shoot the movie in that time. You have to deal with other people’s schedules and their lives, even though it’s a passion for them as well. They definitely want to be a part of it, but you have to coordinate all of that. Some people can’t come at this time, you can’t get the camera at this time, and so those are definite challenges.

Lewis: Mr. Lee, did you face similar challenges?

M. Lee: Yes, I dealt with those same kind of challenges that were faced. And of course the major challenge with any kind of filmmaking industry, or any entertainment industry, actually is the whole concept of the bottom dollar. The money issue. One of the things that is always a challenge is trying to raise the funds to do the movies and things of that nature. I can remember there was a filmmaker here in the area by the name of Lance Powell, who has actually moved on to New York, because he tried to raise the money around this area, but it became too difficult for him. So he decided to try and pursue it in a more, what he felt would be, lucrative area.

Lewis: How has distribution played a role?

M. Lee: The main thing with distribution is that right now there are some other opportunities where you can get your work distributed. Like I’ve stated, there are the festivals, not just the one at Hayti, but there are several festivals around the area. Flicker is one that has shown some local filmmakers. The Free Water people also show some of the films that are produced there. And then you’ve got national festivals like what was in Acapulco, but moved to Miami, if I remember correctly. Then there are other networks, particularly on the cable side, that have crept up and are starting to show more African-American filmmakers.

Moon: That’s true.

Lewis: Now, as far as North Carolina is concerned, are local filmmakers able to take advantage of the opportunities in filmmaking here in North Carolina?

Moon: I think you can, because as far as what you would choose, as far as what you would want to create within a scene, we have it all here. We have the mountains, we have the Piedmont, and we have the beaches. Everything is more accessible than, say, for example, where I did the shooting of my film in New York City. It was a little more difficult. The opportunities, you definitely have to create your own. The venues are there. Like Marc was saying, the venues are definitely coming along. There are especially more avenues pointing towards shorts. They have new micro-cinemas going on now. There is a huge array of access on the internet. They are starting to show movies on the internet now. There are definitely so many places to get your work shown, but as far as picking up a package, being able to get that package deal, that tends to be a little bit more difficult.

Lewis: You mentioned micro-cinemas. Tell us about that.

Moon: The micro-cinemas are new now. There is a new website, micro-cinema.com. They are actually out of the San Francisco and Houston areas. As of yet, there isn’t one on the East coast, but it is definitely still a venue. What they do is they partner with different theaters and things of that nature, so that it is sort of like a festival that goes on, probably every month, and you can have your work shown.

Lewis: Mr. Lee, of course here in North Carolina, Wilmington appears to be the hotbed of activity for producing films. Does that seem to be the trend for African-American filmmakers?

M. Lee: There are one or two filmmakers that are coming out of the Wilmington area in terms of the African-American community, but actually, I’m finding that more of the filmmakers here in the state of North Carolina are actually coming from more of the central locations. Locations like the Triangle, like the Charlotte-Mecklenburg area, and things of that nature. Partially because there is not just an active filmmaking community in those areas, but there are also very powerful drama departments where you can find a lot of talent. You are talking North Carolina Central University, which has a world-renowned theater department. You are talking about Duke, which has also won some accolades as well. St. Aug and Shaw both have strong theater departments. So I think you are able to find more talent in those centralized areas.

Lewis: Since both of you have your pulse on the filmmaking industry, who do you see as some of the up-and-coming filmmakers here in North Carolina?

M. Lee: Well, I’ve mentioned a couple of them. Like I said, Derrick Mangum and Kurt, who have teamed up, Derrick doing more of the business end and Kurt being more of the creative mind. They are definitely out there doing a lot of progressive things. There is a filmmaker who I’m definitely looking forward to their upcoming productions. It’s a production called A Deadly Season. That is Jason McMillan and Victor Stone, who actually come from out of the music community of the area, being from a group called Rise. They are working on a film dealing with the whole AIDS crisis and looking at a woman who is intentionally spreading the virus. They are in the process of casting and shooting right now.

Lewis: We had talked earlier about production. As far as equipment availability when you were producing your films—what type of equipment is available for people to use?

Moon: Right now, that’s becoming much easier because of technology. The digital cameras are becoming much more accessible to pro-sumers, or professional consumers like myself, and just regular consumers. Everything is so much easier now, you know, and a lot less expensive. They have this new thing called 24P, which is 24 Progressive scan, which matches film. It looks just like film. The camera is a little bit more expensive, but it is definitely much less than renting an actual film camera and getting all the stock to go into a film camera. Again, like I said, stick with the universities and the local stations. They are always there to help you out.

Lewis: In essence, what do you see as basically the avenues that are opening the doors for African-Americans in filmmaking?

Moon: Again, I have to repeat: you have to create your own opportunities. The drive—like Spike Lee was saying. The talent is a nominal thing that you have to have, but it definitely takes a lot of drive, and you have to be very, very tenacious. No one is going to hand it to you. No one is going to say, “Okay, this is what you need to do.” You have to go out there and research. I’m at Barnes and Noble almost all the time looking up stuff. Stay on the internet, definitely.

Lewis: Mr. Lee, you are president of Lee Entertainment. Tell me a little bit of background about your organization, your company.

M. Lee: Sure. Lee Entertainment is basically a full-service entertainment and consulting company. We work both with people in the film industry as well as those in the music industry. And It’s our goal to try to get them to the next level. You were talking about who the people are from North Carolina who have crossed to that next level. Hopefully Fable, or some of the names I’ve mentioned, or the other people that are out there, can change things, because we really haven’t had a breakout African-American artist from this community, even though, like you stated in the intro, we are ranked either third or fourth in filmmaking in the nation, depending on who is conducting the poll. There really hasn’t been a breakout artist. Like Spike is from the New York area. You’ve got John Singleton in California. But we really haven’t had the breakout African American artist in North Carolina yet.

Lewis: Now you are in charge of BLASH! Universe. Tell me about that.

Moon: BLASH! started in 1999, when I started doing BLASH! TV. That was where we chronicled—it was like a documentary where we chronicled local and national acts coming in and out of North Carolina, basically asking them what was driving them. What it was that helped them get up in the morning, and why they wanted to be artists. BLASH! is an acronym. It stands for Be Like A Super Hero. And again, it just chronicles the positive attributes and motivations of artists in and about North Carolina.

Lewis: You’ve been associated a lot with the Hayti Heritage Festival.

M. Lee: That is a festival that has been running for eight years, and we’ll be going into our ninth year this coming February. The dates will be the 7^th through the 9^th. We usually try to bring in a national artist to speak to the filmmaking community and the filmmaking industry. It might be a documentary filmmaker—we had Sinclair Bourne one year. It may be someone who is more known from the commercial side. One year, Dick Gregory was one of our guests in one of the early years. This year, our focus on the festival was particularly the independent filmmakers. We definitely want to concentrate on some of those that are right here in the state of North Carolina.

Lewis: Are there any criteria involved for someone submitting something to the festival?

M. Lee: We look at the film and make sure it’s quality work. It’s got that reputation of being a quality festival, so we want to maintain that quality image. Other than that, if they want to get in touch with me though email, or through the Hayti Heritage Center, there is the possibility that we can get them in either this year or in upcoming years. One of the things that I’ve always concentrated on—I haven’t always been successful in it, but I’ve always tried to maintain an independent presence in the film festival.

Lewis: Miss Moon, are there any current projects that you are working on?

Moon: Right now, I’m still trying to let everyone see Paper Fools. I do have a new project coming up, called Scorpion. Just to give you a little bit of background on it—I don’t want to give too much away, but it is about a femme fatal in one of the government agencies that has to infiltrate a group, a well known city-crime affiliated group. I’m also working on some poetry. I’m working on an EP. Definitely look out for that. The music and the movies are definitely going to keep on coming.

Lewis: Okay. Well, folks, thank you so very much for being with us.

Moon: Thank you.

Lewis: Marc Lee, and Fable Moon. Thank you for watching Black Issues Forum this evening, and if you would like to learn more about tonight’s guests or obtain a transcript of this program, please visit us online at www.unctv.org/bif. Or you can call us with your comments at 919-549-7167. We appreciate your feedback and your viewing support, so be sure to join us every Friday night at 9:30 p.m. right here on UNC-TV. For Black Issues Forum, I’m Mitchell Lewis. Good night.

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Voiceover: This program was made possible by contributions to UNC-TV from viewers like you. Thank you.