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Episode #1813
Supermarkets and Access
Brown: Natalie Bullock-Brown,
moderator
Rainey: Octavia Rainey, guest
Ali: Farad Ali, guest
Voiceover:
The
average family spends $87 on groceries each week. But where
are African-Americans shopping for food, and what sort of
products are we buying? We’ll talk about it next on
Black Issues Forum.
Voiceover:
This program was made possible by contributions to UNC-TV
from viewers like you. Thank you.
[THEME
MUSIC]
Brown:
Good evening. I’m Natalie Bullock-Brown, your host for
tonight. Glad you could join us.
Grocery
stores are easy to spot in most neighborhoods. In fact, many
communities are built around the newest Kroger, Winn-Dixie,
or Food Lion. But in many African-American communities, grocery
stores— especially those that stock food products promoting
good health and well-being— are hard to come by. Some
grocers say that they stock what their customers demand, and
that African-American consumers often purchase less healthy
food items. But researchers and other experts contend that
African-Americans eat what is available or what they have
access to. Tonight, we’re going to be talking about
the issue of African-American access, or lack thereof, to
healthy foods. We’ll also talk later about the role
that minority suppliers are able to play in placing foods
that are of cultural interest to African-Americans in major
grocery stores. But first, to help us begin our discussion,
producers Gretchen Decker and Chip Muller take a look at Durham
and Edgecombe Counties to see how the availability of nutritious
foods may affect the health of urban and rural North Carolinians.
[A WOMAN
IS SPEAKING SPANISH IN THE BACKGROUND]
M:
Beatrice Bravo makes a papaya and banana juice drink from
her native Peru. At home, she likes to make nutritious food
for her family. But once outside, she worries her family won’t
choose healthy foods.
F:
[TRANSLATOR] I see places like Kentucky Fried Chicken,
Burger King, and it is just much more available here than
in my country, where there the rhythm of life is much different
than it is here.
M:
The Bravo family lives in a commercial area in Durham.
Their apartment complex is surrounded by fast food. Burger
King, McDonalds, Chick-fil-A and Wendy’s. Nutrition
researcher Sonya Jones says this is part of a pattern.
F:
There are more fast food restaurants in minority neighborhoods
than there are in predominantly white neighborhoods in Durham.
M:
Jones is a professor of nutrition at the University of
Tennessee. As part of her graduate studies at UNC Chapel Hill,
she recently studied what kind of food is available in neighborhoods
in Durham. She says that less affluent people get stuck with
the fast food nearby.
F:
Many planners talk about the fact that zoning is really
good at separating wealthy and non-wealthy people. So what
happens is that there are more commercial areas in poor and
urban neighborhoods than there are in the suburban, better
off neighborhoods or highly affluent neighborhoods. And the
reality is that those areas are also racially segregated.
M:
Jones says this is a problem, because Blacks and Hispanics
have some of the highest incidences of diet-related disease.
F:
There’s an enormous disparity in the level of obesity
among African-Americans and whites. There are disparities
in cancer rates, so the African-Americans have higher cancer
rates. Hispanics have higher diabetes rates.
M:
As part of her research, Professor Jones interviewed local
residents, including Beatrice Bravo, and asked them to take
photos of what they think stands in the way of a healthy diet.
Beatrice’s pictures show eating on the run, and piles
of fries.
F:
[TRANSLATOR] So by not having places like that, you would
be forced to go home and cook at home and make meals that
are more nutritious and more healthy.
M:
Professor Jones says one solution is to zone cities with
nutrition in mind. Beatrice does have access to alternatives.
Many in the country do not. Though the landscape is different,
some of the problems are the same.
Spates
Grocery is twelve miles out of Tarborro and the only store
in the neighborhood. Customers here buy soda, beer, canned
vegetables, pork rinds and Red Hots.
M:
There’s a big list of people that are living in
the neighborhood who don’t want to go too far to get
to a store, so they come here and it is more convenient than
going uptown.
M:
The closest supermarket is eight miles away. That is a
problem for people with no car, and those too elderly to drive.
M:
We are a county with 511 square miles. You can go many,
many miles in some of our rural areas and not have access
to convenient, healthy food.
M:
Jim Baillis runs Edgecombe County’s health department.
State statistics show the county has one of the highest rates
of disease related to poor nutrition.
M:
Notably diabetes. Type-one and Type-two diabetes.
M:
Even in the city of Tarboro, where people have easier
access to a wider variety of foods, including fresh fruits
and vegetables, storeowners find that the less healthy food
is what sells.
M:
We sell a lot of pork offals. Pig’s feet, pig’s
tails, pig ears, along with the pork chops and the country-style
backbone that may be a little more healthy. As a retailer,
what we do is offer people what they want to buy. And our
customers have told us through their shopping habits and patterns
what they want to buy. So that is what we stock.
M:
Demand drives what is on supermarket shelves and on restaurant
menus. Fast food joints apparently satisfy a hunger.
M:
Depending on where you go it is usually pretty good, because
it has got a lot of fat in it.
M:
Nutrition professionals agree that education is a crucial
part of encouraging people to choose healthier food. But until
communities solve the problem of distance from healthy food
in the rural areas and the concentration of fast food in minority
neighborhoods in the cities, Jones says, poor nutrition will
persist.
F:
One of those realities is that many people are living in poverty.
And their choices to eat economically are fast food, highly
processed foods that are high in fat, and what is available
in their neighborhoods.
Brown:
Here to help us better understand how the lack of access to
healthy foods and other goods impacts the African-American
community are our two guests: Octavia Rainey, a community
activist in Raleigh, and Farad Ali, vice-president of the
North Carolina Institute of Minority Economic Development.
So now,
we just saw this piece that is basically saying African-American
communities for the most part have fast food, not a lot of
grocery stores, if at all. So my question is, “Is the
food service industry meeting the needs of the African-American
community?” Ferat, why don’t you start?
Ali:
I think that the food industry has recognized that our
trends and our buying habits are such that we live on a fast
life that is very rapid, in that we have to get the things
that we need to satisfy the needs in our families. Grocery
shopping does take a bit of planning and time, to go through
the aisles and pick out the fresh foods that you like, and
planning. Oftentimes in our communities, life is so full of
stress, and in these economic times people are working one,
two, three jobs. And the fast food option seems more healthy,
because it is healthy for their lifestyle, not necessarily
for their diets. Also, the fast food chains have tried to
market toward this population. We see more active marketing
towards the African-American— or people of color—
community with the commercials, indicating that there are
more colored people on the air. Also the menu is now beginning
to be more accommodating to our people, with toys and an extra
kid’s meal with more food, which really continues the
systemic disease control that is going on in our community
at this time.
Brown:
Thank you. Octavia, let me ask you: I understand that
you helped get a Kroger in a part of Raleigh. I believe it
is in Southeast Raleigh. Now, why were you so passionate about
doing that? What was your mission in doing that?
Rainey:
By working with Craig, who was the developer for the shopping
center, we needed another grocery store, and Kroger was the
excellent choice to bring into Southeast Raleigh. When you
look at Southeast Raleigh, we have a large amount of what
some may call convenience stores— I call them nick-nack
stores— that are located all over the inner city of
Southeast Raleigh. The food is not healthy. There are no choices.
So by bringing Kroger in, it provided another grocery store
for the neighborhoods.
Brown:
But what about the issue of what some grocery owners contend,
and what the Piggly Wiggly owner said in the piece that we
watched: that when African-Americans come in, they buy the
offals of the pork or of the beef? They don’t buy the
choicest pieces of meat. So even if you have a Kroger in the
neighborhood, how do we get African-Americans to pick better,
healthier foods? Ferat?
Ali:
I think that really focusing on education. Some of the
grocery store chains need to see the value of a more educated
client will also help the sales. You’ll be able to get
more product and move it. Sometimes some of these other parts
of the animals are less costly to have on the shelf, and they
can still price them at a premium. There are a lot of profit
margins in those items because who else wants them? You can
send those to that one community, and it will sell.
Brown:
Octavia, what were you going to say?
Rainey:
I think that you’re dealing with two different issues,
too, because in a lot of your inner-city communities across
the state of North Carolina-- pick Charlotte, for instance--
they are saturated with a large amount of convenience stores,
or nick-nack stores who are WIC and food stamp approved. Those
stores do not even carry any of the pork chop, baby back,
pig feet, or pig tails. They sell a high volume of beer, wine,
canned goods, and nik-naks, but those stores are WIC and food
stamp approved. So when you begin to look at that area and
talk about how that impacts healthy choices, it is a huge
dilemma.
Brown:
Speaking of something that I was going to ask about, are
products stocked on shelves in grocery and convenience stores
meeting the African-American demand, or driving it? What I
mean is, are black people buying these things because they
are available, or are we demanding these things? Are we coming
into convenience stores and grocery stores saying, “I
want pig’s feet and this, that, and the other”?
Or are we buying this because, as Ferat was saying, it is
less expensive, it is available? Maybe we’re more familiar
with it? How does that work?
Rainey:
I can say for example, we have a store that is located
in Lumber Gardens called Larry’s. It is a country store.
A lot of the neighbors happen to be familiar with Larry’s.
He sells a variety of items such as pig feet, pork chops.
Anything you want is sold there. But a lot of the people that
buy their meat, they like pig feet, pig tails, baby backs…
Maybe that is of their choice, and they know how to prepare
it. And I think that it is a lot of the older generation.
But when you look at the younger girls, they don’t go
in there to buy the pig feet or the pig tails, because they
don’t know how to prepare it. They end up buying a lot
of bologna and chicken and sandwich meat. I think it really
depends on where you’re located. What you have in the
area that really dictates a marketing style.
Brown:
Ferat, what is the quality of the food like in African-American
communities? If you have a Kroger, perhaps the quality is
going to be a little better than if you have what Octavia
calls the nik-nak stores.
Ali:
True.
Brown:
But what sort of impact would you imagine the quality…
Regardless of how fresh they are, pig’s feet are not
necessarily the healthiest choice. What sort of impact are
they going to have on the African-American community’s
health?
Ali:
Necessarily, it is going to drive up diabetes and create
all these other illnesses that will continue to go through
our communities. It is really a sense of education. We need
to show that having a better diet will allow for us to live
longer lives and make a bigger impact on our community. Understanding
that, I think it is all economic. You need to be able to provide
fresh fruits and fresh vegetables. There is a cost to doing
that. They have a shelf life. You have to move those things.
If people are not buying them, the grocery stores realize
that maybe it is not worth carrying those things. Canned products
and other products are easier. They have longer shelf lives,
and it allows for people to buy when they want. I think that
also speaks to our households. Some times we’re moving
so fast. It takes time to prepare good, healthy meals. Depending
on your job situation, you have to plan your grocery shopping.
You have to go home and decide how you’re going to prepare
this meal, to present this to your family. And oftentimes,
that is why the fast food industry is making an impact. But
also the education of how we plan our lives, to be able to
successfully take this fresh fruit and create something wonderful
from it.
Brown:
Octavia, how do we get African-Americans to make healthier
choices, given the complexity of the issue?
Rainey:
I think it is all education. And too, I want to say that
when we look at pig feet and pig tails, all of those are really
Southern dishes, but I think with anything you eat, you have
to eat it in a certain amount and not over eat. So when you
start talking about pig feet and pig tails and pork chops,
for anyone, anything that you eat— t-bone steaks—
you have to eat in moderation! You just can’t overeat.
So I do agree with Ferat. I think it is education, but also
to keep pig’s feet and pork chops on the table. All
of those are Southern dishes, which are a part of the African-American
culture. And like anything else, we can’t just throw
part of our culture out the door. But we must learn now that
we must eat in a smaller amount, and not just sit there and
eat a whole plate of pig feet. I think that is very important.
Brown:
Thank you for that. We’re going to move on to our
next segment. We’ve been talking about the issue of
African-American access to healthy foods and the impact that
access has on the community, but there is another issue to
consider when it comes to access. That is minority access
to sales opportunities in the grocery industry. In the year
2001, grocery store sales alone approached the $800,000,000,000
mark. Those dollars did not include convenience stores, wholesale
clubs or military commissary sales. A significant portion
of all grocery sales comes from African-American consumers,
but what chunk of this multi-billion dollar industry goes
to African-American businesses? U.S. Congresswoman Eva Clayton
recently met with decision makers in the supermarket industry,
along with members of the House of Representatives, to discuss
the question of African-American access to economic opportunities
in this industry. The success of this meeting spawned the
planning of a series of meetings nationwide, the first of
which took place in Durham, North Carolina. Producer Deborah
Holt files this report.
F:
In December of 2002, when major supermarket representatives
and minority business owners met in Durham to discuss opportunities
to do more business together, organizers did not imagine standing-room-only.
M:
I think it is a great beginning. We have over a hundred
persons through here who want to do business, and the grocery
stores who were here want to expand those opportunities for
vendors, regardless of whether they are minorities or women.
In the long run, you can’t make opportunity for business.
I think businesses take advantage of opportunities that are
afforded.
F:
Where do minority-owned businesses stand as the doors
of opportunity swing open? According to Jackson Lee Davis
IV, Director of Urban Affairs and Publication Sales for Food
Marketing Institute, answers pose a challenge for both vendors
and supermarkets.
M:
People that are not ready to do business with large, multi-billion
dollar corporations, I think that is the biggest challenge
of supermarket operators, because when the supply diversity
manager forwards a woman- or minority-owned company to do
business with them, they want to make sure that the vendor
is ready, so they can put their best foot forward within their
organization, and so that the minority- or woman-owned company
can put their best foot forward.
F:
The supermarket industry’s openness to trade with
minority suppliers parallels its history of openness in extending
itself to urban community development like Durham’s
Eagle Village project, currently under development by UDI
Community Development Corporation. This newly constructed
grocery store, located in Durham, will serve a community that
is over 63% African-American. UDI hopes that after a marketing
presentation and a tour, some grocery store chain will be
convinced to make this store its home.
M:
We have been disappointed in the past about the reaction
of the major chains, but it is still our search to convince
them that this is a ready market. This is a market that needs
a supermarket It has a clientele that will support a qualified
supermarket, a supermarket that is providing quality services.
M:
It is an excellent site. The demographics are very good.
This is a developing community. If you look at the rooftops
around here, you certainly have the population to support
a supermarket, and the demand is here.
Brown:
We’re back with Octavia Rainey and Ferat Ali as
we discuss the question of African-American access to quality
foods and to economic opportunities within the supermarket
industry. So now, in light of this package, what sort of access
do we have to opportunities to serve our own people in the
grocery industry? Octavia, how would you start?
Rainey:
Thank you! When I look at a lot of it in Southeast Raleigh,
we have more of the small nik-naks, or convenient stores owned
by people that live out of the country. I think that if minorities
had more education, access to lending, and knowledge of how
to operate a grocery store, I think we would have more minorities
actually owning and operating grocery stores instead of the
abundance of nik-nak stores.
Brown:
What about this issue of minority suppliers? Because there
are suppliers out there who have foods that are geared towards
African-Americans, like Glory Foods, where they are trying
to provide a service that is both healthy and also gives something
that we’re familiar with, provides something that we
would make on our own. Ferat, how does that supplier relationship
with the grocery stores impact African-American access to
healthier foods? Or does it?
Ali:
Yeah, I think the earlier preview with Jackson Lee Davis
of the Food Marketing Institute really addressed it. In this
community, where we’re building these supermarkets--
and they’re truly supermarkets, because now the average
supermarket is 49,000 square feet, so you’re looking
at these huge facilities… And inside those facilities,
I think for us to take advantage of that, we need to begin
to see what foods we’re wanting to have there, that
we’re going to ask for and appeal for. I think the supermarket
industry can become a part of our communities. Most of these
supermarkets have other economic benefits to our communities.
They now have drug stores, banks and pharmacies that we can
all take advantage of. Beginning to have an advocacy role,
to realize that the grocery store chains and the supermarkets
are really part of our community and that we can help to discern
what they will have in these grocery stores…
Brown:
Do we have a lot of minority suppliers that are trying
to work with grocery stores to provide our community with
specific foods, or is that something that even needs to be
grown? That is what I’m kind of hearing you say.
Ali:
Right, I think we need to move that forward. What is happening
with the major supermarkets is they’re looking for the
Wal-mart supplier. And a lot of us don’t have that opportunity.
We haven’t been groomed to that. We’re first-
or second-generation suppliers. And as they begin to get larger
grocery store chains, they’re looking for suppliers
to supply them across the region and across the nation. We’re
not quite there yet, so really developing these minority suppliers
to participate on that level is where we need to be.
Brown:
Octavia, how can consumers get involved with making sure
that not only are products that African-Americans are interested
in seen on the shelves, but quality products in general that
are coming from minority suppliers, in some cases, are available?
How do we have an impact?
Rainey:
First of all, I think that as consumers, we must be educated.
A lot of us just go in a grocery store, and if we want something
that is not there we don’t go to the store manager and
say, “Could you please stock this on your shelf?”
I think another thing that will help educate us is for the
minority vendors to come into the community and state, “If
you want this in your store, we carry it. Please approach
your store manager to help us get this in your store.”
But I think we have to be educated, too.
Brown:
It is interesting, in the first piece that we saw, the
Hispanic community seems to have done a pretty good job in
asking grocery stores to provide the sorts of products that
they are accustomed to cooking with, to eating. Why is it
that African-Americans aren’t doing the same? It seems
like we are in some ways supporting what researchers say,
that we just buy what’s available. We don’t ask
any questions, we don’t make any demands. If we buy
it, they stock it, and it is cyclical.
Rainey:
I think the difference is that their community is new
to the neighborhood. So when you’re new to a neighborhood,
coming from another country, and you walk into a store and
you don’t see anything that you like, well of course…
As a new kid on the block you’re going to start asking,
“Why aren’t you carrying my products?” I
think that is what has happened, because they are new. But
I think for us, we’ve been here so long that a lot of
them do carry the pork chops, pig feet and pig tails. A lot
of our weaknesses are in hair care products, our stockings.
I really do. Because I go into a lot of groceries, and I’m
looking for off-black stockings or coffee stockings by L’eggs.
They carry a lot of taupe. I don’t wear taupe. You know?
[LAUGHTER]
Brown:
[LAUGHS] Yes, I know.
Rainey:
So I immediately go and ask, “Why aren’t you
carrying off-black? Why aren’t you carrying coffee?”
It is the same thing with hair care products. I learned something
new at the conference about Lowe’s food, with the macaroni
and cheese by Glory. I haven’t seen that yet. So now
I’m going to ask for Glory macaroni and cheese, because
I didn’t know they made a macaroni and cheese. I didn’t
know that they made canned cabbage. But at the forum I learned
some things, because I like Glory products. So now I know.
I want some canned cabbage, and I definitely want some macaroni
and cheese!
Brown:
Octavia, it seems like you’re a more informed consumer
[LAUGHTER] than maybe a lot of African-Americans, but you
will not believe this: we’re out of time. I’d
like to thank our guests, Octavia Rainey and Ferat Ali for
taking time to broaden our understanding of the African-American
community, the supermarket industry dynamic, and how African-Americans
must be more conscientious about the choices we make on what
we eat, where we buy it, and who supplies it. If you’d
like a transcript of tonight’s show, or information
on our guests, please log on to the Black Issues Forum website,
at www.unctv.org. You
can contact us by email from the website to let us know your
thoughts and suggestions. Or, you can contact us by telephone
at 919-549-7167. We hope you’ll join us each and every
Friday night at 9:30 for Black Issues Forum, only on UNC TV.
I’m Natalie Bullock-Brown reminding you to be encouraged,
no matter what. Have a good night.
[THEME
MUSIC]
Voiceover:
This program was made possible by contributions to UNC TV
from viewers like you. Thank you.
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