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Episode #1907
Young, Black, and Giving
Brown: Natalie Bullock Brown,
host
Lester: Darryl Lester, president, HindSight Consulting
Pompey: Pam Pompey, Grassroots Leadership
Brown:
What
does black philanthropy look like? Is it different from other
types of giving, and why is philanthropy through young black
people necessary? We’ll explore these questions, as
well as take a look at new models of black giving, tonight
on Black Issues Forum.
Voiceover:
This program was made possible by contributions to UNC-TV
from viewers like you. Thank you.
[THEME
MUSIC]
Brown:
Good evening, everyone. I’m Natalie Bullock Brown. Welcome
to Black Issues Forum. The Chronicle of Philanthropy
reports that the church is a crucial part of the African-American
giving experience. In fact, nine out of every ten dollars
donated by African-Americans goes to churches or other religious
institutions. But beyond the church, to whom or what do black
people give? Should we be giving more, and how do we involve
young black folks in “giving circles”? Well, here
to help us talk about the issue of black philanthropy, especially
among younger blacks, are our guests: Darryl Lester, president
of HindSight Consulting, which specializes in developing young
black philanthropists; and Pam Pompey, director of fundraising
for the Charlotte-based organization Grassroots Leadership.
Welcome to both of you.
Lester:
Thank you.
Pompey:
Thank you.
Brown:
Now, Darryl, I want to start off with something I read
on some HindSight materials, which is “We make a living
by what we save, but we make a life by what we give.”
Explain.
Lester:
Well, I think it comes out of the old tradition that I
think most of us grew up with that are our age now in our
generation. There were folks in our true village that took
care of us, that nurtured us, and while we were kind of coming
along, those folks also taught us that we need to give something
back. And I think now that’s come full circle for a
lot of young African-Americans, that, you know, “Yeah,
we can save and we can have monetary stuff, but when is enough
enough, and when can we start to give something back that
makes a difference in our communities?”
Brown:
So what are you doing with HindSight that allows you to
cultivate that sort of sentiment?
Lester:
Well, I think initially it grew out of my own family discussions
with my wife and trying to think about “How is it that
we can use our time, talent, and the treasure that we’ve
been given to make a difference in our community?” And
so it grew out of us restructuring our own family to make
a difference and spend more time with my daughter that was
on the way. And so, as we restructured that, HindSight kind
of grew out of our family and the economic times that we were
in. And so when we both transitioned away from our regular
jobs, we wanted to look at something that resembled our own
values and what we cared about, and HindSight was a consulting
group that grew out of what we really cared about—“How
do we bridge what we call ‘community’ and what
we call ‘organized philanthropy’?” And so
we began to convene folks and we had initially already started
a more organized piece around our donor-advised fund that
was at the Community Foundation. So HindSight was kind of
a logical next step for us when we left our nine-to-five jobs.
We do spend more time doing that now, but it’s, again,
based around bridging the concepts of community and philanthropy
and how do we begin to have conversations with folks and be
intentional about saying, “Bring your time, bring your
talent, and bring your treasure” as a way of making
a difference in the community.
Brown:
Pam, I know that your organization, Grassroots Leadership,
is a little different from what Darryl is talking about, but
what are you trying to do with the fundraising proponent of
Grassroots that speaks directly to what Darryl is working
on?
Pompey:
One of the things that we’ve found over the course of
the last few years is that a lot of groups and organizations
were looking at “How do we develop more people of color,
or more African-Americans, as fundraisers to help do this
work?” And what we were finding is there really weren’t
a lot of resources for that, especially in the Southern region.
And the other thing, we were also looking at who were the
people who were giving—as Grassroots Leadership is 20-plus
years old, and a lot of our donors are longtime givers, and
so, as we look at the future, we’re trying to figure
out “How do we preserve that history of giving?”
And one of the things that I came across was that we really
needed to develop our African-American base of giving, and
so what we started to really look at is young African-Americans
and how they’re giving, in terms of money, in terms
of community service. A lot of people that I talk with are
working with their communities; they’re working with
programs in the church or on college campuses, and we consider
that to be philanthropy, if you’re giving back in some
way, whether it’s financial, whether you’re volunteering.
So we started to look at “How do we change the face
of philanthropy?” so to speak. So one of our programs,
Ujamaa, is to develop African-Americans under the age of 35
as philanthropists as well as fund-raisers.
Brown:
Now, is the philanthropy that you’re trying to develop
going to be geared toward social justice or issues of social
justice which I know Grassroots tends to deal with?
Pompey:
It is geared toward social justice, but it’s also
helping young people to recognize that the issues that they
deal with in their own community can also benefit from their
giving as well. So we’d like to develop a network of
young folks who give, not only to organized social justice
groups, but also give back to their own community.
Brown:
And just for clarification, why “Ujamaa”?
Pompey:
Ujamaa is the fourth principle of Kwanzaa, which basically
stresses economic development, working together as a community,
as a group. And within the African-American community we know
that we’ve been involved in numerous movements in this
country and we do support our people and we support other
groups, and so I felt that it was really important to stress
that particular principle.
Brown:
Darryl, what does HindSight do in particular to try and
nurture young black philanthropists?
Lester:
Well, I think the first thing is convening them and bringing
folks in the same circle to have a conversation. And it’s
usually across those sometime class lines that we tend to
kind of put up to have a conversation around “How do
we look at our time and talent when it comes to strengthening
communities?” because it’s a different conversation
when you ask folks about their time, talent, and treasure.
Folks will say, “Well, yeah, I’m giving”
and it might be just through my church, through tithing. Or,
if they happen to be in a fraternity or sorority, they might
be giving. But when you ask them to look at, collectively,
where are folks coming together to invest in their communities,
I think it’s a different conversation. And then a lot
of folks—it allows them to deal with the fact that there’s
a perception that philanthropy is something done by other
people and not them. And so when you break out “philanthropy”
and put it in a more broadly-defined way to include time and
talent, and not just the dollars, I think then you find more
folks understanding that they are engaged in it in some form
or fashion. But then to be more intentional with them and
say, “Okay, how would you begin to think more about
how you use your time and talent and treasure to make a difference
in your community?”
Brown:
Now, what both of you are doing—is it something
that you’re doing across the state, or is it specifically
in your own communities? And, Pam, why don’t you answer
that?
Pompey:
Well, ours began here in this state. We did a retreat
with some young folks last year, and so it started out that
way, but recently we’ve been getting calls from people
around the country actually wanting to know about our program,
and I’m doing workshops for several different groups.
And so it’s spreading out regionally, as well as across
the country.
Brown:
What about with you, Darryl?
Lester:
It started out, initially, when HindSight began to do
work for the Ford Foundation. I started out doing just some
one-on-one. I started out on a listening tour that covered
more the American South—you’re talking about North
Carolina, South Carolina, Georgia, Alabama, Mississippi, Arkansas—and
the way God would work with that. In that listening tour I
was able to connect with Pam and find out what Pam was doing,
and so we had some intersections. So it initially started
out having conversations with young adults in that region
to kind of find out how they even look at and define the word,
and how is it manifesting itself in their daily lives.
Brown:
One thing you said, Darryl, earlier is that people tend to
think that philanthropy is something that other folks do and
it’s not something that we do. Can both of you talk
about examples in the community that you know of who were
average people but gave in extraordinary ways? And, Darryl,
why don’t you start?
Lester:
Well, I think I first looked at—because of my path in
working in organized philanthropy, being a person of color
that was working for a foundation gave me a good sense of
how folks were looking at—there’s a supply and
demand concept that exists in the world of philanthropy where
folks will say that one group is the supplier and another
group is a demand on those philanthropic resources. So first
we had to kind of deal with the myths around that—“Why
do folks see that the folks who were supplying it were not
the same folks who were demanding it?” And so when we
dealt with that, when you look in the community at what I
call “community philanthropists,” they are folks
that have used their time and talent for the benefit of the
whole. At the Community Foundation, there was the Stewart
family that were very much a part of creating the Triangle
Community Foundation, an African-American family out of Durham.
So you have that example, but then you have—I’d
give examples like folks that are based in churches that do
college tours and they help young people to take tours in
the South and tours in the North. To me, that’s an example
of community philanthropy. But they also bring in their financial
treasure to that, so they will invest in that too, as well
as creating a tool for young people to be able to learn about
higher education. But those are just a few examples that what
I call are not on anybody’s newsletter or anybody’s
radar screen, but we know that investment of time, talent,
and treasure makes a difference for the group that gets the
benefit from it.
Brown:
Pam, how would you add to that?
Pompey:
I could give you a couple examples, especially with Ujamaa
and some of the folks who came to the retreat. One young man
who was working on his master’s who’s probably
earning under $20,000 definitely came out of that with fundraising
skills that he took back to his community and his family and
has also developed an annual giving plan. We had another young
woman who equally sent out to a lot of her friends and young
African-American folks that she knew to challenge them in
the tradition of giving. She started out as, I believe, a
$50 a year donor to our organization and then increased tremendously
after Ujamaa and challenged a lot of folks to do the same
thing. I think another good example is when you have community
folks who give their time and their energy and their effort,
as well as their money, in the community. There’s one
particular area that has a community center where the programs
there are strictly funded by the community; there’s
really not outside funding. They take care of the maintenance
of the building. They take care of bringing in programs. They
do their own fundraising. And I think that’s a great
example right there.
Brown:
What about benefits to giving, besides the obvious, I guess,
which is that people are going to benefit, people are going
to be affected? The giver—what sort of benefits do you
receive by giving? And, Darryl, why don’t you start?
Lester:
Well, if you look at it just from an organized perspective,
there are certainly the tax benefits. But I think if you look
at the history of giving in our community, it hasn’t
always been out of this whole tax benefit, because I think
we’re just at a generation at a crossroad now where
there are folks that can look at it from a tax advantage.
But before, we were under that principle of “We reap
what we sow.” So it was something that—it wasn’t
that you were required to do it; it was just something that
was organic that we did. And I’m not sure if it was
always that we were looking for a return, but we knew it would
come back in some form or fashion—that, based on what
the older folks were saying, you were going to be blessed
in some form or fashion, because you are going to reap because
you’ve sown something good.
Brown:
Right.
Pompey:
Definitely. I would agree with Darryl. I think the personal
satisfaction comes naturally, but I also believe that when
you give you’re taking ownership of something. You’re
investing in an organization or group. You’re taking
ownership of the work that they’re doing, and that,
to me, is a great return.
Brown:
And that understanding seems to be important to how people
even think about philanthropy. Talk about—and unfortunately,
we don’t have pictures of these people, and it would
be nice to show people that there are average people that
give in great manners. I’m thinking about Osceola McCarty
or Mattel Dawson. Darryl, why don’t you tell us who
these people are?
Lester:
Well, you know, when I started doing my research back
when I joined the Triangle Community Foundation in 1998, sitting
at the organized philanthropic table and you start to begin
to look at “Well, where are the folks that look like
me?” because I knew that we were giving, but nobody
was bringing us to the table. So as I began to do my own research,
I realized that in 1995 Osceola McCarty left $150,000-plus
to the University of Southern Mississippi, and always worked
as a dishwoman. You know, she was a dishwasher. And so what
that said to me is that when you see the examples of an Osceola
McCarty and a Mattel Dawson, who was forklift operator for
most of his life, that lets none of us off the hook, because
there are young generations of African-Americans who make
more in a year than some of these folks probably got in their
lifetime. And so they serve as examples that it isn’t
the large breadwinners sometimes that are the folks that give,
and the research shows that—that it’s the folks
that earn sometimes $50,000 and less that are giving the most
in our communities. Now, that doesn’t mean that the
folks who earn $100,000 don’t give, but their salary
index will say to us that they may have the discretionary
income to give, but all the studies say that the folks with
the least amount of discretionary income are the folks that
are giving.
Brown:
Pam, this actually leads to a question that I wanted to
ask, which is “Do you need a lot of money to give?”
I mean, I remember you mentioned a young man who makes less
than $20,000 a year.
Pompey:
No, I don’t believe that you need a lot of money
to give. With Grassroots Leadership, some of our donors just
basically want to support us. We’ve had people who made
a $5 contribution as well as a $5,000 contribution. So you
can see the extent of the range. In the African-American community
a great example is: one of the young women who was part of
Ujamaa went back to her church and made a $200 pledge, and
when the time came to pay the pledge, she increased it to
$450. And this is someone who is just new out of college,
is just getting into the job market, but found it to be important
for her to give. In developing your giving plan you can design
your plan so that you put down a dollar a month and then at
the end of a year just make that contribution to somebody.
So I don’t think it matters how much money you make
or how much you have. It’s the fact that you want to
give.
Brown:
And so how do we get started? If I wanted to give, say,
to a college, or any organization, what do I need to do first,
Darryl?
Lester:
I think—and I can only look at it from the perspective
of folks I’ve talked to and how we’ve done our
giving—it’s really trying to develop a relationship
and have some conversations with folks that are part of that
organization, to see if, first, do their values match up with
my values? Is that what I care about? Because folks will approach
you to give, but is it what you really care about? And so,
I think sometimes to give may indicate “Well, this is
kind of what I really care about.” So I think, first,
doing some research on the organization—develop some
relationship with the person, because sometimes that might
be the reason you give, because you have a real relationship
with that person and you trust that if they are connected
to it, then hopefully it’s a good thing to invest in.
And, you know, just making sure that it is a legitimate 501c3
organization. And even if it’s not—if it’s
a community-based organization that’s just getting up—recognizing
that the tax benefit is not why I’m giving it, and I’m
going to make the gift anyway and not look at it from the
tax standpoint.
Brown:
And Pam, if someone wants to donate to Grassroots Leadership,
what do they need to do?
Pompey:
Well, Grassroots Leadership has a website, www.grassrootsleadership.org.
We’re located in Charlotte, North Carolina, so folks
can contact us there through our office. Can I give the phone
number?
Brown:
Sure.
Pompey:
704-332-3090. People can contact me, which—I’m
there at the office—extension 15. And we have a newsletter
that goes out. I mean, there are so many ways to get in contact
with us.
Brown:
And we will have information about both HindSight and
Grassroots Leadership on our website. But let’s get
back to the conversation and something that’s sort of
central to this discussion, which is young people. Why is
it even necessary to try and cultivate a base of young people
who will be givers now and in the future, Darryl?
Lester:
Well, I think, for one, we always talk about “Young
folks are our future.” Well, I also believe that they
are the right now; they are the present. And how do we begin
to engage them in the dialogue and in the conversation around
“Who will be the next folks that will be running Grassroots
Leadership and who will be in Pam’s place?” because
I think, you know, I’m right on that cusp where folks
will say, “You might be aging out.” But as I look
at young folks that might be younger than Darryl that I interact
with—I stumbled into what I call “organized philanthropy.”
It wasn’t something I came out of school thinking about.
And so how do we intentionally make sure folks end up in certain
places? Who are going to be on the boards of these organizations
that are doing the real work in our communities? And I think
if we start now by having a conversation with young folks,
getting a sense of what they’re thinking, and let them
bring their talent and thinking to the table and honor that,
and not say, “Well, I want a young person at the table,
but not…” You know, that whole thing—“I
want you to be seen but not heard.” So definitely cultivating
them to be heads of philanthropic organizations, because I
think our children will have more information about what this
is than we did, and then our parents did the best job they
could of getting us to understand just the concept of why
we give back.
Brown:
But I think, even though our parents did give us a foundation,
in a lot of instances, their messages were sort of subtle,
would you say, Pam? And what could parents do now that are
listening to this conversation? What can they do to instill
these principles in their children?
Pompey:
I think that we still have to fall back on the historical
struggles of the African-American community, to share those
stories, to talk about what people did—how did the civil
rights movement come about? Why did we fight all these fights?
Why do we have all these issues, and why is it so important
to maintain this sort of connection? I feel like there’s
a disconnect right now between our young people and our older
people, in terms of “How do we preserve that historical
tradition of giving from the African-American community?”
And I think part of it is getting your kids to give even in
church when they’re two years old, or helping them see—develop
a family giving plan together. Look at groups and organizations.
Think about—when you make a contribution to your child’s
school, you’re a philanthropist. When your kids bring
home cookies and you’ve got to sell them in the office,
just make sure that the kids understand that that type of
fundraising and giving should be long-term and that we should
keep that on our plate.
Brown:
Darryl, is there a difference between fundraising, charitable
giving, and philanthropy, or are they all kind of under the
same umbrella?
Lester:
I would say they’re all kind of intertwined. They’re
all under the same umbrella. Because there would be some folks
that would say, “One drives the other.” For a
non-profit person, if there are no funds coming in the door,
how can they engage in the program-adding and the service
end of it? So I definitely think they are intertwined, and
folks that sometimes serve on governing boards—you know,
you’ll hear folks say sometimes, “I’m not
a fundraiser,” but it goes back to what Pam said—everybody
has asked somebody for something at some point in their life—the
bake sale or whatever. It just has escalated to another level.
Now you’re asking for larger dollars, so we have to
be more strategic in how we package the ask.
Brown:
And Pam, am I to understand that even if I take some clothes
to Salvation Army or to the American Veterans’ Organization,
that is philanthropy?
Pompey:
I believe that it’s the spirit of giving that’s
philanthropy, definitely.
Brown:
So that’s what we need to take away from this.
Pompey:
Yes.
Brown:
Any parting shots that you guys would like to give? Just
something that maybe we haven’t discussed that people
need to know—North Carolinians in particular need to
know—about giving, to try and encourage more of it,
Darryl?
Lester:
Well, I think it is an opportunity for young adults to
be able to come into a room and have a conversation around
“How are African-Americans doing post-civil rights movement,
post-legalized racial segregation?” You know, how are
we really doing now, as a people? And I think young folks
need to talk about that. W.B. DuBois talked about the duality
of life and “What does it mean to be African in America?”
and how will that impact on how we give in today’s society
and for future generations, because we will be trying to figure
out how we develop that balance and how we fit in? So we may
give stuff through Grassroots, but then folks may want to
go and give stuff to the arts and to more contemporary things,
and I think that’s a gift, but I think folks need to
be real clear that there’s still some struggles and
still some barriers that African-Americans face. And so you
do need to make sure you send some of your time, talent, and
treasure there, as well as participating in mainstream life.
Brown:
And Pam, quickly, would you say that, if you’re going
to be a philanthropist and you’re a member of the African-American
community, that you need to pretty much focus your energy
and your attention on those issues that are specific to the
African-American community, or can you branch out?
Pompey:
I think that you can branch out. I consider myself to be a
“philanthropist from the ‘hood.” Each year
I look at my giving plan and I make contributions to at least
five different organizations each year and I think, personally,
probably the strongest quote that I go with is from songwriter
Harry Chapin, who says, “Am I observer or participant
or huckster of belief?”
Brown:
Well, I’ve got to end right there, and that’s
an awesome way to end. I’d like to thank Darryl Lester
and Pam Pompey for talking with us about black philanthropy.
If you’d like to learn more about his topic or about
the work of our two guests, please visit the Black Issues
Forum website at www.unctv.org/bif. We would also like to hear
your feedback and suggestions, so send us an e-mail or you
can call the BIF line at 919-549-7167. Be sure to join Black
Issues Forum each Friday night at 9:30. I’m Natalie
Bullock Brown, reminding you to be encouraged, no matter what.
Good night.
[THEME
MUSIC]
Voiceover:
This program was made possible by contributions to UNC-TV
from viewers like you. Thank you.
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