2003-2004 Broadcast Season
Broadcast Program Transcripts
Episode #1911
Les and John Leslie Brown

Lewis: Mitchell Lewis, host
LBrown: Les Brown, motivational speaker
JBrown: John Leslie Brown, motivational speaker

Lewis: Coming up, motivation times two, nationally renowned motivational speakers Les and John Leslie Brown are our special guests — next, on Black Issues Forum.

Voiceover: This program was made possible by contributions to UNC-TV from viewers lie you. Thank you.

Lewis: Good evening, everyone, and welcome to this edition of Black Issues Forum. I’m Mitchell Lewis. Tonight, we’ll talk with two men who can motivate you from a melancholy to a meaningful existence in your life. When one thinks of African American motivational speakers, Les Brown is regarded as one of the best in the nation, and, now, his son, John Leslie Brown, has followed suit. Both of them join us tonight. Gentlemen, welcome to Black Issues Forum.

LBrown: Thank you very much for having us.

JBrown: Thank you.

Lewis: Les, I’ll start off with you. How did you get started in motivational speaking?

LBrown: When I was in special education school, I had a high school teacher who used to take us to motivational events to see the late Doctor Norman Vincent Peale who wrote the book, The Power of Positive Thinking, and I really became fascinated with the industry, especially the fact that it has such benefit for me. He told us that we had something special. I believed it and began to really become a student of that arena.

Lewis: John Leslie, how did you get started?

[Laughter]

JBrown: Well, growing in the household of my father was the initial step, but I never wanted to be a speaker. I already look like my dad, so I didn’t want to follow, but as I listened to the comments that people would say to him when they greeted him when we were out — they remarked, saying, “Les Brown, I liked your favorite song,” or “Les Brown, you made the last shot,” but they were saying, “Les Brown, you changed my life,” and that intrigued my interest.

Lewis: Now, Les, you were in Durham for the Durham Chamber of Commerce’s Multicultural Business Professional Network Program, and that was entitled, “Adapting Your Business in a Multicultural Marketplace.” Why did you feel that you needed to be at this particular gathering?

LBrown: Well, I was very glad, first of all, to be invited here by the North Carolina Minority Economic Development Group because of the fact that, as we begin to look into the future, this is the age where it’s accelerated change. Things are changing the whole appearance of the workplace, people learning strategies and techniques of what it takes to optimize the efficiency of the operation, how to get the most out of the people that are working there. This is how we have to do more, do it faster, do it better, with less resources. So, it’s a very competitive environment. So, what we do is provide methods for people to begin to take their performance to the next level and a corporate level, as well as organizational and out in the communities.

Lewis: Now, of course, there are still barriers facing African Americans and other minorities in becoming entrepreneurs, especially when it comes to the mindset of becoming an entrepreneur. What type of information are you giving them?

LBrown: Well, one of the things that we know about people — that people do not deal with life as it is. They deal with life as they are. There will always be barriers to us. I mean, that’s the name of the game. What we have to do is that we have to raise our level of performance higher. See, white people can afford to be ordinary or excellent. We have to be great, and so we have to hold ourselves to a higher standard. We have to be more resourceful and network and leverage those relationships. You know, George Frazier said something that’s very important: “Your network determines your net worth.” We have to look for ways in which we can begin to develop core competencies in a variety of areas. We’ve got to bring more to the table in a very competitive environment in order to make our impact and to create a place for ourselves. It will not just be given to us. We have to fight for it. That’s the name of the game.

Lewis: Now, John Leslie, I haven’t forgotten about you. One of your areas in motivational speaking deals with youth, and peer pressure, of course, is one big element of the youth. What experiences have you had in peer pressure, and how have you used those experiences to motivate other youth.

JBrown: Well, in high school, I went from a failing student my freshman year to a straight “A” student my senior year, and what I noticed in that time period when I was a failing student, most of my friends got “F’s” When I was and “A” student, most of my friends got good grades, and, so, what I do, as a speaker is — see, peer pressure is one thing, but “potential pressure” is another. When you start to think about the pressure that you have from having all that potential in you, then you must find a way to access it.

Lewis: But how do you go about building or bringing out that potential?

JBrown: Well, definitely. Especially dealing with the relationships that we have, I believe that it’s two important questions that everyone should ask when evaluating relationships, and those questions are — first, “Who can we count on?” — and, secondly, “Who should we count out?” Because people rub off on you, and so getting the negative, toxic people out of your life, whose influence isn’t serving a higher purpose — that is the first step.

Lewis: Now, you bring up something that I’ve heard in one of your father’s books — toxic people. Tell me about toxic people and what are the qualifications for being a toxic person? How do you get rid of them?

LBrown: Well, you know, my daughter, Ona Brown, she says that, “Show me your relationships, and I’ll show you your future.” And Frankie Crocker used to be a disc jockey out of New York, said, “It’s better to be alone than to wish you were.” So when you begin to look at your relationships, you’ve got to ask yourself the question, “What is this relationship doing to me? What kind of person am I becoming? Is this a relationship that inspires me, that brings the best out of me? Do they challenge me? Do they hold me accountable? Or is this a relationship that’s highly critical, that’s toxic, that’s not productive, that’s taking me down?” MIT did a study, and one of the things they found out that whoever you communicate with and associate with, you earn within five thousand dollars of what they earn. So when you look at where you’re going and where you want to go — Dennis Kimbrough said something that I like very much. He said, “Look at your group. If you’re the smartest one in your group, you’ve got to get a new group.” In order to begin to really rise above toxic people, elevate yourself to a place where you’re surrounding yourself with people that you can learn from, people that you can grow from, people that can help you expand mentally, emotionally and spiritually, so that you can begin to discover some things about yourself that you don’t know right now. And those people that bring you down — make a decision to spend less time with them, or just get them completely out of your life.

Lewis: Well, John Leslie, how important is discipline when it comes to developing one’s potential.

JBrown: Discipline. I would have to say it’s one of the most important things. Everything that I have had to do, even when I had the potential to do it, even if it was something easy for me to do, if discipline was not there, then it was not going to be done. Jim Rowan, I believe he said that, “Discipline is the bridge between aspiration and accomplishment.” And, so, discipline is the first step, I think, for anyone that’s actually trying to have more than they already have.

LBrown: Socrates said, “The undisciplined life is an insane life.” People who look at themselves and look at their dreams, if they’re not willing to embrace a level of discipline to accomplish those things, to set aside time to train themselves, to acquire the knowledge and skill they need, they’ll never ever begin to make their dreams become reality.

JBrown: I also believe that a lot of reason why people don’t implement discipline in their lives is— something that I discuss in my speeches — which can destroy people. I think — I look at it as a virus, and that’s something called “instant gratification.” When you implement discipline, and when you see the value of it, that’s when people appreciate delayed gratification, and that’s what it takes if you want to accomplish anything.

Lewis: Now, Les, your life story has been one of tribulations as well as triumphs. Tell our audience a little bit about your younger years and your high school years.

LBrown: I was born, as you know, in a poor section of Miami, Florida, called Liberty City in an abandoned building on the floor with a twin brother. We were six-weeks of age. We were adopted by Mrs. Mamie Brown. When I had a talk show years ago, I would always pay tribute to her by saying, “This has been Mrs. Mamie Brown’s baby boy.” I saw a quote once that I embraced. It said, “God took me out of my biological mother’s womb and placed me in the heart of my adopted mother.” And so, when I was in fifth grade, I was identified as EM or labeled “Educable, Mental Retarded,” put back in the fifth grade to the forth grade, failed again when I was in eighth grade. But because of my mother, and also a high school teacher named Mr. Leroy Washington — I think they really dramatically changed how I saw myself, and by exposing me to things such as motivational messages, it helped me to begin to craft a life for myself that I feel very good about.

Lewis: Now, this question is for the both of you, and I’ll start with you, John Leslie. What message do you most often speak on and you can’t seem to address enough with young people, especially young African American men?

LBrown: Well, it’s a message that — there’s a quote that says, “Your life, my life, the lives of each and every one of us, will serve as either a warning or an example.” The message that I can’t seem to stress enough is that we have enough warnings out there and that there’s an example in all of us waiting to show, and so to implement the tools — because many of us have the knowledge but, like you said, it’s the discipline that makes your life an example.

LBrown: Yeah, one of the biggest things we’ll have to do is help our young people have a vision of how they fit in the future. If you don’t have a vision of how you fit in the future, then you’re going to act like a misfit. You’ll walk around with your pants below your butt, calling it “saggin,” because what we have is a negative epidemic. You know, HIV — you know, “Hood Infectious Virus.” You know, AIDS — “Addiction to Incarceration and Death Syndrome.” And, so, when you have our young people today who feel more comfortable dressing like they just got out of jail, with their do-rags and their hats on crooked and the earrings, going around with their pants below their butts, looking like they just stepped out of some prison, and they’re now little glorified thugs. We have a real serious problem, and I think that the reason that the conditions exist that it does is because the bad people work harder than the good people. What we’re got to do is step up to the plate.

Lewis: Just out of curiosity, John Leslie, we haven’t discussed this. What’s your age?

JBrown: I’m nineteen.

Lewis: Nineteen.

JBrown: Yes, sir.

Lewis: So, you don’t play along with the rules of the new styles that are out, the fads that your father was talking about?

JBrown: Oh, well, definitely — as a child — well, I’ve always been taught…

LBrown: Living it in the household. He knows. When he’s not with me, he dresses like that, okay. But when he knows I’m going to see him, he’s strategically does it, because I have people spying on him.

JBrown: That’s not true, and Marva Collins said, “Excellence is a habit, not an act.” So one of the things, I’ve never wanted to fit in. My mission is to stand out, and, so, the fashions — that’s fine, but my mission is to serve as an alternative. If you can see a black male with a do-rag on, with his pants hanging down, then you should be able to see a black male with a suit on, and that’s the type of male that I saw all my life coming up.

LBrown: And I must say that he most certainly has reversed himself, because all of us are subject to peer pressure. We’re born with the proclivity to fall into what’s going on around us. All of us are products of our environment. I mean, when I was a kid, there were things that were going on that influenced me, as well. But I must say that he most certainly has looked at himself differently and has held himself to a higher standard, but it was not without a battle. Let the record show. And I want parents to know that — that we can win the battle. It’s a struggle, but we have to be patient and persistent and also remember that we were once kids and temporarily insane, too.

Lewis: Now, to the second part of my question, and this is because we don’t want to leave the ladies out. Are there any messages especially for African American women that you can’t seem to address enough?

JBrown: Well, actually, my sister, Ona, she really does a lot of programming, a lot of positive with women. One of the things that I like to do as a black male, as a young male, is you often hear males disrespecting and degrading our women to less than they are. All I want to do is show them that not every guy is like that, so I always hold women in the highest respect and, also, just to let them know — many women haven’t been told. Young ladies haven’t been told that they have something special beyond just their bodies, and so that’s my way of contributing to the African American women.

Lewis: Les?

LBrown: Well, I think that the message that we bring is for women, it’s for men, it’s for young people, it’s for older people, it’s for all races. I don’t thing that we should paint ourselves into a corner. When I decided to become a speaker, my goal was to be a speaker for the planet, not a black speaker, but if someone who had a message that can empower people that transcends gender, race, creed, nationality — and, I think, as people begin to look into the future, today, this is the time you either expand or you’re expendable. That goes for females as well as for males.

Lewis: Let’s talk about a specific area, because you’ve mentioned that you don’t want to be more-or-less type cast as just as just a spokesman for African Americans.

LBrown: Not, don’t want to be. I am not.

Lewis: You’re not.

LBrown: Ninety-nine percent of the audiences I address are white audiences, and that’s for a reason: because white people don’t have the same level of psychic disrepair, and they’re more open, have the mindset for the message that I bring, than African Americans, based upon the kind of conditioning and the kind of experiences that we’ve had and what we’ve gone through in this country.

Lewis: Well, unfortunately, racism is still around us. What do you use, what types of techniques do you use to try and encourage people not to accept racism as an excuse not to succeed.

LBrown: Well, I don’t think that you can just focus just on racism. I think the biggest challenge that we are facing — there’s an old African proverb that says, “If there’s not enemy within, the enemy outside can do us no harm.” As we begin to look at our young people today going to apply for jobs with basketball jerseys on, young ladies going showing their navels when they go to apply for an interview. There are many opportunities that we’ve been given that we can’t even take advantage of — many young people can’t take advantage of — because they’re not prepared. They don’t have the mindset. They don’t have the discipline. They don’t have the character development to understand what does it take to enter into the workplace. So, even though racism is a challenge, and it will always be there, we’re making it very easy, many of us, for ourselves, by not doing the things that we ought to be doing — like staying in school, like going to college, like developing some discipline, finding your magnificent obsession. What’s your purpose for being here? What is it you love to do? How can you leverage that to provide some service that you can create some income for yourself? I don’t think that racism is the biggest barrier that we’re facing right now. I think that the biggest enemy that we’re facing right now is ourselves. Racism is an issue. We need to deal with that, but we’re the biggest battle that we’re fighting right now.

Lewis: Any thoughts on that, John Leslie?

JBrown: What you’re saying is true, dad. There’s a quote that says, “It’s okay to allow being a victim to serve as a reason for lack of success, but we can never let it serve as an excuse.” And if we truly take ownership, there is no excuse, but it says something that I think is powerful for anybody going through hard situations where they’re faced with a major barrier. He said, “The amount of pain that you’re been through is a direct measurement of the amount of power that will be released in your life.”

Lewis: Now, Les, you have gone through several challenges in your life, and in one of your books, It’s Not Over Until You Win, I think you were talking about the difficulties that you were facing involving the cancellation of your show, I believe.

LBrown: Yes, I’ve gone through the cancellation of a show. I’ve gone from a divorce from somebody I loved very much. I’ve gone through — six years ago, I was diagnosed with prostate cancer and given a two to three prognosis. Six years behind me, all of God before me. I’ve gone through a whole lot but, you know, you’ll notice that in life you will always be faced with a series of God ordained opportunities, brilliantly disguised as problems and challenges, and, so, you just have to, in all things, give thanks and just keep on moving. You can’t stop. I have a saying, “If you’re going through hell, don’t stop. Just keep moving.”

Lewis: Now, when it comes to motivators, who’s the motivator in your life?

LBrown: My children. The purpose in my life — I feel, what drives me now is the fact that I think about how hard my mother worked. When I was a kid, my mother adopted seven children. She had a third grade education but a PhD in mother wit. There was no man around. She was momma and daddy all wrapped in one. Seeing her on her knees, scrubbing floors on Miami Beach to feed us and to provide clothes for us. We ate the leftover food from the families that Momma cooked for. We wore the hand-me-down clothes of the children that Momma kept, and the families were kind enough to say, “Mamie, you’re raising those kids. Hopefully, this will help you. Here are some clothes my children are no longer wearing.” And I said, “If my mother can do this — and she didn’t have us, she adopted us, and the person who had us walked away — the least I can do is make something of myself. And, so, that’s been the most compelling reason in my life. Nietzche said, “If you know the Why for living, you can endure almost any How.” So, my desire to make her proud and to do something with my life, to say, “I want you to know how much I appreciate you by doing something with my life that you can be proud of, Momma, and I’m proud of, as well.”

Lewis: John Leslie, your motivator.

JBrown: Yes. Well, my dad kind of took my answer, because when I look at my dad, when I think about all the things that he had to deal with, what he had to go through to get to where he is now, I feel an obligation to maximize my true potential. I feel an obligation, but, also, when I listen to the radio, when I look at television, when I see all of the negative images that are constantly sent out to youth, then that inspires me. It used to bother me, but now it let’s me know that my purpose for being is still here.

Lewis: Les, as being a motivator for many years now, have you seen your message really change throughout the years?

LBrown: It is changing, because I’m changing, and I’m growing. You know that, as you look yourself, and there are insights at fifty-nine — you know, I don’t look fifty-nine, because I use mascara to cover my gray — there’s no shame in my game at all, alright — and I’m growing, and I’m crystallizing my thinking, and also working with other speakers. This is a transition year for me. I’ve been a speaker for many years. Now, I’m training and developing speakers. I’m teaching people how to go into this market, this fifty-four billion dollar market. Bill Gates said, “The re-training of Americans is going to be the biggest budget in this century.” And, so, looking at them, looking at five of my seven children that are speakers, and the sixty-two speakers that I’m working with right now, and learning from them. I’m the teacher, but, also, there are times when my students are teaching me. So, it’s a very, very exciting time for me, and my message is evolving as I evolve.

Lewis: Now, can anybody be a motivational speaker?

LBrown: If they have something that they feel passionate about, if there’s something that turns them on, that is something that rings their bell — yes, without any question. If you’re excited about it, if you like to help people, and the name of the game to me is — success is finding something you love to do and finding people to pay you to do it. That’s what I do. I love to talk to people. I love to make people laugh. I love to make people feel good. I love mixing with people. You know, I’ve earned over forty-two million dollars doing what I love to do, and people say money changes you, but it really doesn’t, you know. When I ride in a limousine, I ride with the window down, because I paid too much for that car for you not to know I’m in there.

Lewis: Now, you all, both of you have some upcoming projects. John Leslie, you have a CD out,

JBrown: Yes. See, one of the things that I believe is that if we can turn on the radio and learn how to be thugs, then we should be able to turn on the radio and learn how to be thinkers. So, I developed a CD called “Get Up.” It’s “up” thoughts, and just for those times when you feel down and you don’t feel like yourself. Also, my latest upcoming CD is called “A Message to the Elders,” and it’s bridging the hip-hop generation with those before us.

LBrown: Oh, isn’t that interesting. I’m looking forward to that one myself. [Several voices] …go to lesbrown.com and see a promotion that we have for people who want to invest in themselves and becomes motivational speakers or trainers or coaches. We have a very comprehensive program that can save them money, save them time, and help them to accomplish what I’ve accomplished in a fraction of the amount of time it’s taken me. It’s time for ­— as my children call me — “the old geezer” to step back and train and develop myself. You know, my son says something which is very important. “Success without successors is a failure.” And, so, it’s a good thing to see other young speakers that I have a chance to pour into and coach them and help them to craft their message and go out into the future where I will not be able to visit, but at least know that part of me will be in there as we go in there and make a change in the planet.

Lewis: My final question: if you could give one piece of advice to motivate people to reach their potential, what would it be? John Wesley?

LBrown: John Leslie. John Wesley was a great religious leader. This is a great motivational speaker.

JBrown: Thank you, Daddy.

LBrown: Who thinks he’s going to overtake me, and he is.

[Several voices]

JBrown: I learned that one of the five characteristics to determine whether or not something is living is by asking if it grows and develops, so my advice would be — it’s a quote that says, “When you’re through changing, you’re through.” Never stop growing. Never stop reinventing yourself and finding that specialness that’s within you.

Lewis: Les?

LBrown: Mine is, “Live full and die empty.” Most people go to their graves with their talents, their dreams, their abilities and their skills still in them. I say, “Don’t leave anything on the table. Become a risk taker.” You can’t get out of life alive. You’ve got to die to leave here, so, therefore, live full, try things, experiment with your life, find out what fits for you. Don’t be among those that at twenty — they say the majority of people die at age twenty-one and don’t get buried until they’re sixty-five. They’re walking, breathing corpses. No. Henry David Thoreau said, “Oh, God, to reach the point of death, only to realize that you’ve never lived, only to realize that you’ve never scraped the surface of your potential.”

JBrown: Come on, Daddy. Go ahead.

Lewis: It’s beginning to get deep. Tell us a little about your book, “Up Thoughts For Down Times.”

LBrown: What it’s dealing with is helping people in the midst of all of the things that are going on in the world, everything that’s going with us psychically since September the eleventh — it’s helping us to have some up thoughts during these particular challenges that we’re going through. One of the most important passages, I think, I find in scripture, is that, “It has come to pass.” You know, the things that we’re going through right now, the changes, the upheaval, the turbulence, the fear, the uncertainty — they have not come to stay. They have come to pass, and as we go through these things, we don’t want to just go through them, we want to “grow” through them.

JBrown: And, John Leslie, as it relates to the youth, what message would you want to send them as far as reaching their potential.

JBrown: See, one of the things I believe adults should not ask younger people — what do they want to be when they grow up — because that sends the false message that they have to wait until they’re older to be who it is that they really want. And, so, my advice would be, “Do it now. Whatever you want to be, be it now. If you want to be a doctor, research. Know how and know all that it takes to do that.” And because — tomorrow’s never promised, and we’re not going to be young forever.

Lewis: And we have to stop it right here. John Leslie Brown, Les Brown, thank you so very much for being with us this evening. And if you would like to download a transcript of tonight’s talk with Les Brown and John Leslie Brown, visit us online at www.unctv.org/bif. You can also link to Les Brown’s website for information on his books, tapes, seminars and more. If you’d like to make a comment, call the BIF line at 919-549-7167. Thanks for joining us tonight, and be sure to join us each and every Friday night at nine-thirty for more stimulating discussion. For Black Issues Forum, I’m Mitchell Lewis. Good night.

[THEME MUSIC]

Voiceover: This program was made possible by contributions to UNC-TV from viewers like you. Thank you.