 |
Episode 1918
Mega Churches
Lewis: Mitchell Lewis, Host
Holt: Deborah Holt, Producer, BIF
Plummer: Glen Plummer, Christian Television Network
Peterson: Jesse Peterson
Evans: Dr. Tony Evans, National Religious Broadcasters
Horton: Reverend Vonner Horton, Pastor, Oxley Hill Missionary Baptist Church, Mary Hill, North Carolina
Summerfield: Dr. Frank Summerfield, Senior Pastor, Word of God Fellowship Church, Raleigh and Dudley, North Carolina
Lewis: Mega-churches are on the rise, oftentimes with a new high-tech message of prosperity. Is this a sign of the new role and message of today's black church? A discussion, next on Black Issues Forum.
Voiceover: This program was made possible by contributions to UNC-TV from viewers like you. Thank you.
[THEME MUSIC]
Lewis: Good evening and welcome to this edition of Black Issues Forum. I'm Mitchell Lewis. According to the Hartford Institute for Religious Study, there are more than 600 congregations in the United States that have reached mega-church status, and the number continues to rise. Along with increased numbers comes the ability to afford broadcast technologies, and today there is an entire industry dedicated to religious broadcasting. The 61st annual convention of National Religious Broadcasters was recently held in Charlotte, with a record attendance of more than 6000, the NRB is a network of Christian communications leaders offering educational sessions to empower and inform participants on how to better deliver the gospel through media. Black Issues Forum attended that conference; Deborah Holt has this report.
[BEGIN VIDEO CLIP]
M: My personal model for ministry was excellence in all things and all things to God's glory. And we as an association are committed to excellence, not for the sake of it, but for the glory of God.
Holt: Glen Plummer, a licensed and ordained minister and founder of the Detroit-based, Christian Television Network, was recently elected the first African American chairman and CEO of NRB. He says broadcasting is one of the strongest, most effective ways the church can spread the gospel of Jesus Christ to the world.
Plummer: If a pastor had the opportunity to talk to 20% of the whole city that he's in, it would be phenomenal. He'd fill the arena in town. And yet television, he could be on or she could be on TV and speak to 30%, 40%, 50% of the city if necessary, by a broadcast, radio or television.
Holt: But not all churches are in the position to operate a broadcasting ministry. Many communities across North Carolina have seen the development of mega-churches, with large memberships, huge sanctuaries, that are usually outfitted with state of the art audio and video equipment. Most of these are independent and nondenominational and often preach the message of prosperity that may not be well received by some.
F: And I think that those mega-churches need to reexamine their message to make sure it is a whole message when it comes to what exactly do we mean when we say, even the term "poverty." I broke it down; we're poor in spirit, I mean, you could have a lot of money in the bank and be totally bankrupt and impoverished in your life.
M: Well, that depends on which circles you run in, because it's very well received; some of the largest churches in America are African American churches that do preach success to their members. In fact, I would venture to say, based upon our research, that the largest growing churches and now the largest churches in America, regardless of denomination, regardless of race, are African American churches.
Holt: But not everyone agrees preaching the message of prosperity is positive. L.A.-based author and radio talk show host Jesse Peterson says most black religious broadcasters that preach prosperity are running a scam.
Peterson: These mega-churches, like TD Jakes and Cruffledollar and all those guys, they are using blacks with the Scriptures. They give them a false sense of hope that if you give your money to me, then somehow or another God is going to bless you for it. And so the rich and the poor run down to the pulpit there, dump their money, feel good about it, and that's all the further it goes. And so you're looking at the preacher making all this money thinking that, "Wow, if I give my money to them I'm going to get it too" not realizing that the reason they were doing so well, them taking your money, and building these huge churches and sending their children to the best of schools and things like that. And they have-it's sad, but they're evil and they're using black people for their own personal gain.
Holt: However Dr. Tony Evans, senior pastor of a mega-church in Dallas and board member of the National Religious Broadcasters says all mega-churches are not the same.
Evans: Well, I think you have to measure each ministry by it's, let it stand or fall based on what it is doing. I don't think you can stereotype ministries. A lot of mega-churches are built off of an emphasis on prosperity teaching. That's not one teaching that I'm very in favor of. And people who know our ministry know that. And so I think unless you can specifically tie something to a particular ministry, to group it stereotypically, I mean we certainly don't like that being done to us, to be made stereotypic in how people view us, and it more should be done from us, with relationship to other ministries. So I'd just say judge a ministry based on its individual merits and make a decision from there.
[END CLIP]
Lewis: However, as mentioned in the piece you just saw, there are questions as to whether or not the broadcast production element, coupled with the teaching of prosperity in the mega-church, may be luring churchgoers into a false sense of faith. We have two pastors joining us this evening to discuss this issue. The Reverend Vonner Horton is the pastor of the Oxley Hill Missionary Baptist Church in Mary Hill, North Carolina. Dr. Frank Summerfield is senior pastor of Word of God Fellowship Church in both Raleigh and Dudley, North Carolina. Now, we must note that the purpose of this program is to gain a better understanding of the approaches used by various sized churches to spread its ministry, and it is not intended to criticize how or where one chooses to worship. Dr. Summerfield, Pastor Horton, welcome to Black Issues Forum.
Horton: Thank you.
Summerfield: Thank you for having us.
Lewis: Dr. Summerfield, I'll start off with you. The "definition" of a mega-church deals with if a church has 2,000 or more members. Now, your church I believe has 1,200. Do you consider your church a mega-church?
Summerfield: Well actually the 1,200, even numerically is more of a number that depicts the people who actually are regular, not only in attendance, but are part of the financial support of the church. A lot of people use numbers. I could say, on the roll we've got about 4,000 people. And if I were to count everybody like that, then our numbers would be a lot higher than 1,200. But I try to be realistic and actual about those, and we can have documentation that they are consistently contributing. But yeah, I do, because when I look at the definition in Webster's dictionary of "mega," Mitch, it has to do with not just numerical size and magnitude, but it actually says in the definition, an entity or something that operates in a large way, has a large impact, stands on its own and does something that hasn't been done before and is not being done by everybody else. Now, when I look at that, I look at, whether it's 1,200 or 3,,000 on a roll, 1,200 actual, whatever number we want to use, with the Word of God Fellowship in Raleigh for example, and I see 90-plus people who get empowered from that church to be employed and earn their living on a 127 acre complex there every day, then I see mega operation. Because when I did research, I did not locate any other ministry in the Triangle area that was employing 90-plus people, and paying them to work in the ministry. And a lot of them are in our technology part of the ministry, you see.
Lewis: Reverend Horton, now, you are the pastor of a smaller church; what do you believe brings people to a smaller church, compared to perhaps a mega-church?
Horton: I think it's the availability of a pastor. In rural communities people like to know that they have a hands-on with their pastor. And oftentimes when we think of the term "mega" oftentimes there is, even when you look at the pulpit itself, there is an expansion of the pulpit as far as Senior Pastor and then Assistant Pastor and then Associate. When you deal with the rural community, persons like to know that they can reach their pastor and that they have the availability to call them, and the pastor will have the time to be able to respond to whatever the individual needs might be.
Lewis: Dr. Summerfield, the message of prosperity and success is being preached in some of the mega-churches. Do you think that this prosperity message is replacing this sort of freedom and survival message that has been, say, a cornerstone of some African American churches in the past?
Summerfield: I think it may be doing that to a small degree, in some churches. It depends upon the pastor and the staff of the church and what they emphasize in the message of prosperity. I think when the emphasis-for example, let me just deal with it from a perspective of myself personally, my wife and I operate as a team. In ministry, much of what we do is done by both of us. Part of our services are both of us ministering together actually. We take our 27-plus years of successful marriage and incorporate it into the congregation, and prosperity as we preach it to them is, is your marriage being successful; your family staying together; your children feeling good about themselves in your home; opening up to you and talking to you and considering you to be their best friend; and your family sustaining itself and being successful: that's incorporated in our prosperity message. So we're still emphasizing the things that are the values, that are the cornerstone of the African American community in the church.
Lewis: How about those single folks who are out there?
Summerfield: What we do in regards to them, we have a strong singles ministry. And in that singles ministry, we emphasize the quality single life, being able to feel good about oneself and knowing who you are in Christ, knowing who you are professionally as a person, being sound emotionally, intellectually, and having confidence in yourself. And prosperity preaching, that's what we're actually saying, we're using the word "success" more than prosperity. My biggest desire is to be effective. If I can affect the lives of the people, in terms of where they are in life, then I consider that as prosperity.
Lewis: Pastor Horton, what is your take on the prosperity message; is it appropriate, especially as compared to back in the days of the civil rights movement, do you see this prosperity message working at your level?
Horton: I think that if the approach would be to have prosperity based first of all, upon our relationship with the Lord, because I think that's where true prosperity lies, and the fact that there is an eternal place for us. And then when we tie it into the fact that yes, we have to sustain here, but it is not money that's evil, but the love of money. And I think it's the approach in which it is taken with the people, and just how equal the people are when it comes to their leader, their pastor; versus their lifestyle. Certainly if you're in a, what is perceived as a mega-church, you have a population of members that a rural community church will not have, because their livelihoods are different. Their source of income is different. But I think that it's when you give those persons a sense of worth and value regardless of how much your W2 says, that God has a purpose and a plan for your lives that is not based upon the size of your home or the number of bedrooms that you have, but the fact that you are preparing yourself for an exit to a place that is free to all.
Lewis: Now, this question is for the both of you. How has broadcast technology affected the mission and the ministries of your church? Dr. Summerfield?
Summerfield: In a very positive way. For example, we educate over 400 children a day on a 127 acre campus, again, as I emphasized earlier. And the broadcast and technology entity of operation has enabled us to reach the public and let them know that there is a school there, a private Christian school that is operated under the authority of the church. And myself as a former educator, elementary, secondary and college, God has given me a vision to do this. And my wife and I together have founded the school. We've had seven graduating classes and over 70% of the students have gotten athletic or academic scholarships. When you could educate 400-plus children a day, and you're using technology to let the community know, that's how we're able to come up with 70% of our student body is not from the church congregation. If it wasn't for the technology and television, we wouldn't be able to get the word out that we have a private Christian school. A lot of at-risk children, children that haven't made it in the public situations, that can't go back to public schools, have come to our school to become success stories; not only athletically but academically. A lot of people tie success for an African American student with athletics. A lot of our students are not athletically involved at all but have been successful after being failures in the public school, and I still tie it to the fact that we can get on television and let them know, the school is here. And reach them not only in Wake County, but outlying counties as well. And if we didn't have television in a regional and a national sense, we couldn't do that.
Lewis: What role has Summerfield Ministries played as far as being involved in the broadcast industry?
Summerfield: Summerfield Ministries is actually the outreach effort that encompasses all of our publications and books and tapes and products that we send to the prisons, to people who are in hospitals, rest homes, who can't get out to church. And those materials go out free. And you say they go out free because you're not selling that; that's for people to get the gospel who can't get to us. Summerfield Ministries heads that up. And the staff that are under Summerfield Ministries are facilitating all of that process in allowing us, and they are also our camera people and everybody else that does the outreach ministry through television.
Lewis: Pastor Horton, you have a unique ministry of your own. Tell us a little bit about that.
Horton: Well we do have some of the same type things, but of course again, I will relay it back to the fact that in the state of North Carolina you have 100 counties. Bertie County ranked probably as poverty goes, the third to fifth poorest county in the state. So some of the things that others may take as a luxury, a way of life here, when you deal with-and sometimes I think that mega needs to go minor just to see the fact that there is a need there. Then maybe everybody cannot do the same things when it comes to ministry. So certainly from my perspective, I deal with the population of persons that I have, and then try to find ways to meet their individual needs and the community need. And in the area in which I pastor, we have started out on ministry as far as video and audio taping, that we get to convalescents. And the community is so outstretched, it is one of the largest when it comes to land-wise, but certainly one of the poorest. And so some of the things that our ministries are just growing to in our areas, and that is being done. But what we're doing more of, versus having a mega individual church, is we have more community efforts where churches come together on a quarterly basis and we have the community and unity where we worship together. And then we take that same entity and we do other outreach things, such as at the present time what we're using technology for is even doing volunteer income tax assistance for young persons and those homes that qualify where the predatory lenders have been feasting off these individuals. They now get an opportunity to have their tax papers filed electronically at no cost, deposited into their account. We work with various grants where we recently have received a grant at the church where our Raleigh Electric Care Trust was able to provide us a grant where we were able to purchase additional computers for the individual use of the children in the community who do not have them in their homes.
Lewis: Dr. Summerfield, do you think that the use of broadcast technology coupled with say, prosperity and success teaching, do you think because, in the piece that we saw earlier they were talking about that they thought that-well, one person in general thought that the combination more or less left people say, in a euphoric state, rather than depending on their faith. How do you see that?
Summerfield: I think that again, the leadership, the pastor, the pastoral staff, has to incorporate in the teaching on prosperity and success, the foundation of all of that. The bible says in Matthew, Chapter Six, Verse 33, "But seek ye first the kingdom of God and his righteousness, and all these other things will be added unto you." In the 112th Psalm, the psalm as David writes and says, "Praise ye the Lord, blessed is the man who feareth the Lord, the delight of great leader's commandments. The generation of the upright shall be blessed as seeds shall be mined in the earth, wealth and riches shall be in this house." Then the rest of that psalm keeps talking about righteousness, how the righteous person, he helps the city, he helps the community. And so the foundation of righteousness and morality has to be the base of the prosperity teaching. So do the people understand that God is their source for everything, that his heart is major, his love and his holiness must always precede our gain. What would it profit a man to gain in the world and lose his soul, one writer said in the Bible. So I think that myself, my wife and our staff, we constantly emphasize the righteousness of God and the morals of God and the nature of God and the love of God. And the concern for someone else other than yourself as the base of the teaching for prosperity. Now, there are some that don't emphasize that, and I think that we need to understand that that's very important, and I would say that to anyone. Because without that, the people can get a false sense and lose sight of who the source of everything is, and lose sight of what needs to happen before they gain anything materially.
Lewis: A question to both of you, what can churchgoers, worshipers do to sort of, I guess, discern what is being prosperity and perhaps something that perhaps may be a little bit misleading; how would you go about, what advice would you give to them?
Holt: First of all, the example being set: "For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son." The first gift came from God providing for us an avenue of escape, and one of the ways in which we exercise our faith is in giving, and for the Bible tells us "For whatsoever man soweth that shall ye also reap." In order to reap, we must learn to sow. And so certainly what I teach to others is the fact that God does not need anything that we have. As a matter of fact, he owns the cattle and the hills, but certainly as an act of my faith, and that my belief in that I have nothing that does not already belong to him, then I'm willing to take that that I have and lay it before him that it might be used in kingdom building, but also in the outreach community and outreach ministry where _____ there is, because when I stand before him, the question shall be asked, "Did you feed me when I was hungry?" and certainly feeding is not just telling people that the Lord will provide, but it is also allowing the Lord to use me that I might be able to meet those needs. And if I have no source of income, then certainly I cannot be of assistance to those of my brothers and sisters who may be at this present time a little less fortunate than I.
Lewis: Dr. Summerfield?
Summerfield: And discerning, discerning, I think that was one of the key words you used. I think that people need to take a look at the foundation of ministry, take a look at how much of the ministry is reaching beyond the sanctuary, and what type of things the ministry is using the money for, even though the ministry is mega-ministry and is gaining income, but is it going back into the community? Does anybody work there? If I've got thousands and thousands and hundreds of thousands of dollars, I can find a position to incorporate into our ministry of operations to make us more effective, reach more people, and then I can hire another person, as I look at it. Some people say we're overstaffed, whatever, but for the size of our ministry, our staff size is larger than some ministries that are five times as large numerically. But we purpose to put back into the lives of people, part of what comes in, to keep us from stacking up and even becoming somewhat focused on it too much. We take it and use it for academics, a Christian school. Many people have no idea what it takes to operate a Christian school in the African American community. First of all, your tuitions have to be low enough to where a single mother with three children can afford it, and if she can't afford it, you have to find ways for her to afford it because you don't want that child, those children, to be left out because there's no discrimination. So we find ways through the church incomes. So they need to look at what the church is doing. Is it using the prosperity, first of all, for the people, and for the community immediate and outlying. If it's not, then there needs to be a serious look at trying to figure out who is, because there's got to be a sensitivity with the prosperity message. There's got to be a sensitivity to the point that with the prosperity we also served the needs of people.
Lewis: Do you think that the churches are being effective in doing that, especially when you've looked at voter apathy and welfare and things of that nature.how is the church going about, and especially through, say, broadcast ministry or other ministries, how are they going about trying to bring people up?
Summerfield: You know, technology, in about a week there's going to be a seminar at church, it's a home buyer's seminar, I can't even give you all the specifics about it, but what it does is it affords people the opportunity to, even if they've got some credit problems, no money down, no fees or anything. One woman who was a single mom with three children has an interest rate, she just got a 3000 square foot home, 2.2%. They helped repair her credit issues and different things. They educated her. Through technology, we can advertise this, it's free to the public. Anybody can attend. Anybody who doesn't have a home yet, that doesn't have the money for a home, needs to attend. With technology we can reach hundreds and thousands of people and get them to come, that don't even attend our church. And so we're educating. You've got to educate the people, use technology to educate, and I think we have tremendous advantages through television, to be able to educate people in our community, immediate and outlying.
Lewis: Pastor Horton, I know you're chomping at the bit!
Horton: Yes, and I also think that because one of the things that was emphasized was to put out, and I'm reminded of the fact that even in Bertie County, we just recently went through Hurricane Isabel, and that was a key time that mega-churches could have done an awesome outreach ministry, as far as meeting the needs of all people. And oftentimes our greatest concern is those that are within our inner circle, but the ministry and the gospel, Christ provided his gospel for all people. And when I look back over the way the response came, and even today with homes still in the county that are in desperate need of repair, children that still have not been able to regroup because they started out at a disadvantage, many of them do not have Christmas. They have not gotten a winter coat, and these type things. Then I want the mega-ministry and the outreach ministry and all of those things, and even the broadcast ministry, to remember that there are rural counties, there are rural areas that cannot afford televised ministry.
Lewis: I'm going to have to stop it right there. Dr. Summerfield, Pastor Horton, thank you so very much for joining us this evening. If you'd like to learn more about our guests and their respective ministries, or obtain a copy or transcript of tonight's show, visit us online at www.unctv.org/bif. When you visit, be sure to give us your comments and program suggestions. You can call us on the BIF line at 919-549-7167. Join us each and every Friday night at 9:30 for more stimulating discussion. For Black Issues Forum, I'm Mitchell Lewis. Good night.
[THEME MUSIC]
Voiceover: This program was made possible by contributions to UNC-TV from viewers like you. Thank you.
|
