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Episode #2018
Curing the Superwoman Syndrome
Brown: Natalie Bullock Brown, host
McKissack: Cheryl Mayberry McKissack, Nia Enterprises, LLC
Huggins: Sheryl Huggins, NiaOnline.com
Khaltani: Lynette Khaltani, Author, Zero Debt
T. Parker: Tenille Parker, Working Mother
B. Parker: Bradley Parker, Tenille's Fiancée
F: I think that in general as women we've all sort of grown up with this myth of the superwomen, which is that we can all have it all and we can all do it all. I think for a lot of us we can have it all, but we have to realize that that often comes with a price.
Brown: We'll talk about the price of superwomanhood with two successful women entrepreneurs next on Black Issues Forum.
Voiceover: Funding for this program is made possible in part by UNC-TV members.
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Brown: Good evening everyone and welcome to Black Issues Forum. I am Natalie Bullock Brown. The myth of the superwoman; it's a topic that often headlines the covers of women's magazines and for good reason. For a lot of women who want to be entrepreneurs, wives and mothers it is the source of much stress, but it doesn't have to be. Today's guests say the great equalizer is achieving balance. How do you do that? Tonight, they're going to share their answers from a new book they've co-edited entitled the Nia Guide for Black Women: Balancing Work and Life. I'd like to introduce the founder, president and CEO of Nia Enterprises, Cheryl Mayberry McKissack. In addition to managing the business of Nia Enterprises, Cheryl is a wife, surrogate mom, adjunct professor, author, corporate director and civic activist. Cheryl worked in corporate America for 14 years before deciding to start her own business. We also have with us Sheryl Huggins, editor in chief of NiaOnline and vice president of information services of Nia Enterprises. Sheryl is a single professional living in New York City, and she says she enjoys a fulfilling career that allows her to address issues that are important to her as an African American woman. Welcome to both of you.
All: Thank you.
Brown: We're going to talk to both of our Cheryls in just a moment, but first we had a chance to hear from a couple of working women who are also full time moms, and from a gentleman who also had something to say something about balancing work and life.
Khaltani: I think the biggest challenge for me, frankly, is that my kids are at an age where they definitely want a lot of time with both their parents, they're both very active and very precocious, and I have a very demanding job. I write books for a living, I teach seminars, I give a lot of workshops and I travel a lot. So the biggest time crunch for me is to fit everything into one sort of doable job. As a mom, you often feel stretched. You feel like, am I giving enough time to the kids? And am I also giving enough time to my career? For me, personally what I've done is I've made a choice to put my kids first so that when-for example, when they come home and I have them work has to end. And that's a big shift for me because I hadn't always worked in that way. Frequently I would still be on my home office computer at 6:30 typing emails or responding or writing notes for the next book, that kind of thing. But I've really made a conscious decision to say I have to stop the work at a reasonable hour.
T. Parker: I'm a single mom, I work full time, sometimes 40, 50, 60 hours a week. Balancing church, friends and the other stuff that I want to do is chaos. I didn't have time to really devote what I needed to to my daughter or to God and I was just trying to do too many things and in just such a short amount of time. But now I've had to slow down a lot, like I said, prioritize, I put God first. My daughter's second and just take it easy, take one day at a time.
B. Parker: I try to do everything I can as far as helping around the house, I even cook and clean a little bit, especially when she has to work on the weekends, try to just do some extra things and try to set things up for us to do when we do have time to do stuff, I kind of already try to have something planned. On the weekend something, a little outing or something.
Brown: We're talking about balancing work and life tonight. Let's find out how we're going to do that from our studio guests. Let me start with you, Cheryl. Tell us a little bit about the beginnings of NiaOnline. Why did you start that?
McKissack: Well, I started it primarily first of all, I was one of those stressed-out technology executives, and when I started to look at the season that I was in of my life and what I wanted to do going forward, I really sat and jotted down all the things that I like to do, the things I thought I was good at doing and then I thought about what job would let me do that. And unfortunately for me, based on what I really wanted to do, I couldn't find a job that would allow me to do it, so I felt I had to create it. And then I took a look at-I had three really criteria that I wanted to do: I wanted to continue using my technology expertise, I wanted to do something that could incorporate community and primarily focusing on black households, and I wanted to do something that would allow me some flexibility from a family perspective. And when I looked at that I saw that there was a need out there to have research for African American households that would allow corporations to learn more about us and hopefully be able to bring better products and services into our communities and our households. And so we started NiaOnline, and "Nia" means purpose, and really was a way to really be able to better handle all of those things and still get a sense of fulfillment.
Brown: I know that your current book-you have two out with another Sheryl, our other Sheryl, but the second book is balancing work and life. Who is this book for? I mean, it sounds like its actually-it could have been for you at the point that you decided to leave corporate life.
McKissack: Yes, it actually is for any woman, and we've written it from the perspective of black women, who want to have a better handle, get a better handle on their life and their work. One of the things that's been interesting since the book came out is that we've also heard from men who may be partners or husbands with these women who are reading the book so they can get a better understanding of how their roles can potentially change and help make this a little bit easier, not just for themselves, but for their families as a whole.
Brown: Sure. Let's talk a little bit about the superwomanhood or superwoman myth. Sheryl, what is this myth about?
Huggins: Really, it's the myth that we can do it all. I mean, certainly women have been making great strides over the past few decades. At one point it was thought that our main sphere was within the home and of course now that sphere has expanded to work. But in the process, we've gotten caught up in the idea that because we can do so much, we should do so much. And then on top of that, we train others to expect us to do everything. So really, we have a term called "escaping the cape" and we think it's very important-it's wonderful that women, black women and women in general are so empowered, but sometimes that can be a trap. Part of the reason why we wrote this book was to help them be more empowered and less trapped by the idea of the superwoman.
Brown: How do you escape the cape as it were? How do you teach other people to not expect what you have basically nurtured them to expect, gotten them to expect of you? Without also having the feeling-because I struggle with this myself-of feeling like you're not doing enough. Somehow by escaping the cape you're letting everyone down.
Huggins: Right. Well, you know, the real keys come down to choices and communication. It comes down to the choices that we make, how we prioritize our life and it also comes down to communicating what it is that we want. Very often we are afraid to ask for what we want of others for fear of seeming weak or seeming like we're falling down. And then there's also a sense of guilt, and I think that's what you were alluding to a little bit. We say that guilt is not really a productive emotion in your life. In terms of training, really you have to look at it this way: if everyone comes to you when they have problems or if everyone expects you to take care of them and yourself in every way, that didn't happen overnight. You trained them in some way to expect that. So what we tell women is it's going-it's a process. In training the loved ones in your life, your partners, your children, what have you not to expect everything from you and to let them know what you want. Now, the truth of the matter is is we had women say, "But what if they say no? What if they don't want it?" And the truth is, if you've trained people to not support you, at the outset they might not, it's going to be a process. As well, you have to also be willing to relinquish a little bit of control and to allow them to help you in the way that they can do it best. One of the writers in our book, Dr. Jeff Gardere who's a psychologist and a radio talk show host, he talks about how his wife would ask him to do the dishes and he would do them in cold water, which drove her crazy. And so then she'd go after him and redo it and after a while he felt a little frustrated and fed up and said, "Well if you're going to redo it then I might as well not do it at all." That's such a trap that we fall into and it's very important not to fall into traps like that. Truth of the matter is, it may not get done the way that you intended, but it does get done, and then that's a little less strain on yourself and a little more time you have to devote to other things to achieving more of a balance.
Brown: I tell you, you're preaching to the choir.
McKissack: And by the way, there's no scientific fact that say that dishes are actually cleaner done in cold water or hot water, so either way it works.
Brown: I'm sure that some of our viewers, especially if they are moms, they are wives, they are working out in the workforce, working away from home, maybe wondering, you know, how can a single person tell me, well how would they know how to give me advice about this thing? The truth of the matter is, it doesn't matter what you do, whether you're single, married, have kids, what have you, you're going to run up against this myth.
Huggins: Absolutely. I'm single and Cheryl is married, but there are different challenges to achieving balance whether you're single or married or you have kids. We interviewed so many women from different walks of life. We interviewed celebrities such as Brandi, Norwood and Phylicia Rashad and also just regular everyday women as well as corporate executives. And so all of them face challenges and we have a number of chapters in the book that also deal with how to get support from your family in particular, "When Mommy Needs a Time Out" is one of the chapters in the book. So that wisdom is drawn on from a lot of different folks that have spoken to NiaOnline over the years.
McKissack: One of the things that I think is very important is that I was single a long time before I got married and I can tell you my life was just busy as it is now, but I was doing different kinds of things. One of the problems, I think, for a lot of single women is that when they're in the work force people feel, well you're single, you don't have children, so therefore you have more time. First of all, single women have families. They may not be children directly, but they have families. They may be taking care of an aging parent, they may be taking care of a sister's child, our households look differently than other households. Forty-eight percent of our households are headed by African American females versus about thirteen percent in the general population. So we have to look at the composition of our household and what that means. What you're going to find is that just because you're single or just because you don't have kids, that doesn't mean that you have all of this extra time. So you still have to create a balance in your life to take care of those things that are important to you.
Brown: Cheryl, let me stay with you. What happens, both I guess physically and even spiritually if a woman does not take some time for herself and really balance out her work and her life?
McKissack: Well, I'll tell you. Unfortunately what happens is what we're seeing right now as it relates to black women. Sheryl and I both do some work with the Black Women's Health Imperative which is a not for profit organization that focuses on the health of black women. Unfortunately black women have the highest occurrences of most of your major diseases. Heart disease, strokes, diabetes, we are leading the charts there. That's not where we want to be leading the charts. And by the way, we're higher even than black men. So, you know, you don't have to look any further to see what's really happening to us as black women, and we've got to change the paradigm such that we start to think of ourselves first. One of the things I always like to do is to think about when you get on an airplane, what happens when you get on an airplane and you have a child with you? They tell you, make sure that if the cabin pressure starts to go lower, you put your mask on first. And you put your mask on so that you will be in the best position possible to help take care of your child. The same thing is true in your life. If you have a child or you have other family members, you are not going to be able to be the best you can be for them if you're not the best you can be for yourself. So we want to change, we want to shift that a little bit and have people take away the guilt. You're still going to have some of it, but start to feel less guilty about taking care of yourself and understand that when you're taking care of yourself, you are taking care, you are making an investment in your family.
Brown: What about men? How do they, I guess, figure into the whole overworking need for balance between work and life myth?
McKissack: One of the things that we found, and this was really surprising, a little bit to me, but I perhaps shouldn't have been, is that when we talk to men, a lot of times men feel-and Sheryl talked briefly about this-is that they're not communicated as to what it is that we want them to do. They feel as though we think by osmosis, they're going to figure it out, and we have to be very specific. Not in a demanding kind of way, but you have to put kind of a life plan together. What are the things that your either husband or your significant other or men in your life can help you with that will help make your life better, which ultimately makes their life better? But you've got to be specific about what it is that you need. And don't expect them to just figure it out. Dr. Hilda Hutcherson who is a very popular doctor who talks about how to communicate on all kinds of topics including sex, including talking about what you need. There's no different in any other part of your life. I think the number one thing is communication, you've got to be clear about what you need in a way that people can accept it and understand it. And as Sheryl said, if it doesn't work the first time, don't be afraid to try other ways in order to finally get the message across.
Brown: I wanted to go back to Sheryl and ask you how do you-especially-a lot of women I'm sure think of themselves as good communicators, but when the metal hits the road, I guess, in instances where you're really having to speak up for your needs and the things that you desire from your mate or your children or your family or whoever, how do you get yourself to feel like it's okay for me to ask for this, so that you can actually articulate it?
Huggins: Well, I mean there's two portions of that. It's definitely choosing first of all to know that you deserve a help, you deserve a break. And also beyond that, in terms of communicating it, one of the women in our book, Paula Sneed, who's the senior VP over at Kraft, she talks about a bargain that she made with her husband very early on in her career. And in their lives, as they mapped-and she had a plan, you know, a life plan of where she wanted to get and how she needed to get there-she also had a daughter so she needed help with that. She basically said, "Look, honey, I know what your dreams are, you know what my dreams are," it's very important to be invested in each other's dreams, to let your mate know that you are invested in his dreams as well and make bargains. So it was for a few years, "I will work at this and you will support me and then I know you want to start a business in a couple of years and even though I've got this high flying career, I will do what I can to help you see your dreams." They've had this partnership for many years and now they have a grown daughter. It's important to let your partner know that you are invested in his dreams while you are asking for that support.
Brown: Now, I understand that a lot of the information that is contained in both balancing work and life, and your first book comes from, among other places, the website, NiaOnline. So for women who may not have access to the book, God forbid, or who really only are going to get this information through the website, where do they find it, where do they need to go Cheryl?
McKissack: It's www.niaonline.com and the registration is free so anyone can come on and register. We have, on the website, we have a number of channels that talk about health, that talk about careers, that talk about parenting, that talk about food, food choices that you can prepare for your family. So there's all kinds of information that will help you, at least from our perspective, live a more purposeful life, whatever that is for you. The book really takes into account what we do both online. We also have been producing a leadership summit for four years in Chicago and last year in New York on an annual basis, and we talk about these things. We have topics like "Don't Quit Your Day Job-Yet" to talk to women who are thinking about transitioning to being an entrepreneur but maybe aren't in a position to do it all today. Can't just walk in today and say, "I'm out of here." So how do you-maybe take a part time job, how do you-maybe you can't ever see yourself being an entrepreneur but you've got some creative juices and you want to be able to deploy those. So joining civic organizations or finding something that will allow you to get that kind of fulfillment and satisfaction. So it's really a combination of what we do from a research standpoint, we've included some of our research in the book in order to let you know what black women are thinking about relative to these figures-I mean to these subjects-that we have out about stress. We did an interesting poll in the book about stress and unfortunately we found that most black women, over 74%, feel that they feel stress on a regular basis. That's scary.
Brown: That is scary. Let me jump in here because I don't want to let you guys get away, especially since you're entrepreneurs, without really talking about this issue of women, black women in particular, starting their own businesses. You shared with us some interesting information which is that in a survey you found that 60% of African American women and 43% of white women said owning their own business would give them career satisfaction, and that's fascinating to me. Why is it that black women are more interested in starting their own business than white. I would think that it's the opposite way. Sheryl?
Huggins: You know what, I think it has to do with the benefits of flexibility and control over our own lives that having our own business can give us.
Brown: And do white women not need the same things or do they find them in different ways?
Huggins: I think they may find them in different ways and as well, again, we certainly have this sort of superwoman, strong black woman image, so the idea of being in control and taking control is something that is perhaps even a little more natural to us.
McKissack: And I think when you think of the household composition again, keep in mind that we've got 48% of our households that are being headed by an African American female. So that need to have more flexibility and because you are the person that is unfortunately in some cases making all of the decisions, are responsible for the things that happen there. So the idea of having your own company or your own business and being able to incorporate some of that flexibility, you may feel that you're able to do that better than in a corporate situation. But I think the important thing is that whether you're in a corporate situation or entrepreneurial, corporations today want you to think entrepreneurial. People are coming up with different types of work options, some people are working from home, some people are able to do a share job situation. So I think regardless of whether you're in corporations or entrepreneurial, you've got to find the right balance for yourself. And it's different for every person.
Brown: Just practically speaking, and I'm going to ask both of you to address this-how do you, in general, make time? How should women go about making time for themselves, Sheryl?
Huggins: I actually talk about it in one of the chapters in the book, and really the truth is, all of us have a plate that is way too full. I don't think there's anyone out there who doesn't, at the beginning of their week, if they were to list out all the things they had to do for the week, it would be three pages long and you're never going to get done half of it. So what we advise is this: first of all, make a list of all the things that you need to get done, and also as you're doing that, include yourself in that list so it's not just "My boss said I have to have this done by Wednesday," it's also, "Oh yeah, I haven't had a pedicure in two weeks and I need to"-or whatever it is that it may be. I need to exercise, I need to take some time out for prayer. Whatever that may be. So now you've got this list. And then you take a separate sheet of paper and what we're asking is this. Take five items from the first list, things that you know that you absolutely have to do, fires that you have to put out, it's urgent. List those in order of priority. Then take a sixth item, it can be from anywhere on the list, it's probably at the bottom, but it has to be focused on you. That sixth item has to be something that you do for yourself. Put that on the list. Now, for this week, you do those six items and make sure you check off all six. The idea is, we're going to shorten it, we're going to make you prioritize, but then on top of that, you much include yourself at least once.
Brown: Cheryl, I'm going to give you the last word. If you can, tell us a little bit about the next project which also seems to fit very nicely into what we've been talking about today.
McKissack: Well, this is-the books are really a series that we are bringing out and our third one will be coming out in September called Choosing Wellness. We think this is just a critical, critical topic that we've got to address. The fourth one, which will be out next year is called Building You, Inc. and it's really this whole idea of reinventing yourself. By the way, we really believe that black women need to reinvent themselves continually throughout their lives because you change, there are different seasons of your life. You started the program talking about can we have it all? We believe you can have it all, just not all the time.
Brown: We need to have another show on this very topic! That you so much to both of you. If you'd like to get in touch with our guests or obtain a copy or transcript of tonight's show, visit us online at www.unctv.org/bif. When you visit, be sure to give us your comments and program suggestions. You can also call us on the BIF line at 919-549-7167. Join us each and every Friday night at 9:30 p.m. for more stimulating discussion. For Black Issues Forum, I'm Natalie Bullock Brown. Good night.
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Voiceover: Funding for this program is made possible in part by UNC-TV members.
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