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Episode #2026
1960s Young Revolutionaries
Lewis: These four North Carolina A&T students gained notoriety in 1960 for their historic sit-in on February 1 at a Woolworth's lunch counter. Their courageous act helped launch a movement throughout the South and defined the City of Greensboro as a landmark on the Civil Rights roadmap. The story of the Greensboro Four has been told and retold in pictures, books, and film. Coming up we will bring to you stories of two graduates from private historically-black colleges in the City of Raleigh and find out how they made their mark on the Civil Rights trail next on Black Issues Forum.
Voiceover: Funding for this program is made possible in part by UNC-TV members.
Lewis: Hello everyone and welcome to Black Issues Forum. I am Mitchell Lewis. The Civil Rights movement is arguably one of the greatest social change movements ever to hit our nation. Much credit goes to the young men and women, high school and college students, who chose to participate in the sweeping sit-ins and student demonstrations of the 1960s. Many are familiar with the act often credited as the kick-off of that movement, the now-famous Woolworth's lunch counter sit-in by four North Carolina A&T students on February 1st, 1960. Not as well known are the activities of students who attended two smaller, private colleges in Raleigh, St. Augustine's College and Shaw University. Right now we are pleased to have with us two individuals who are alumni of those schools and participated in the historic student demonstrations of the 1960s. I'd like to introduce first Ms. Barbara Woodhouse, a 1963 graduate of St. Augustine's College and a retired school teacher in the Virginia Beach public schools who currently resides in Virginia Beach, Virginia. We also have with us Dr. Mack Sowell a 1964 graduate of Shaw University and currently associate vice president for enrollment management at Shaw. And to both of you, welcome to Black Issues Forum.
Woodhouse: Thank you very much for inviting us.
Lewis: Now Barbara, I will start off with you. Now we have a picture coming up soon that took place on February 12th, 1960, that is 11 days after the Greensboro sit-in where you and 13 other people participated in a sit-in movement in Raleigh. Now although we are not trying to take anything away from the Greensboro sit-in, none of those folks were arrested but you weren't as fortunate. Tell us what happened.
Woodhouse: Well on February the 11th several of us went to Shaw University to be prepped as to what we should do if we participated in the sit-in. We were told how to dress, we were told how to conduct ourselves, and we were told to carry along some literature to read, newspapers, text books, or what have you. On February 12th I was one of the fortunate 13 to be transported to Cameron Village where we protested the eating facilities at F.W. Woolworth's. We were on the sidewalk protesting. We had signs that said that we felt that the establishment should desegregate eating facilities. We walked up and down the sidewalks; we never got into F.W. Woolworth's because Woolworth's had been closed the day before. So we walked up and down the sidewalk protesting, trying to get into Woolworth's to get into the eating counters so that we could perhaps order. We walked the sidewalk for about an hour. After that time a member of the management came out to the sidewalk and asked us to leave. We refused to leave. He asked us again to leave. We refused to leave at that time. At that time he said to us, "If you do not leave, I will have you arrested." We still did not leave. A paddy wagon was circling the area. The manager called for the driver of the paddy wagon to come over, which was a policeman. Also a trooper, or a policeman who was also in the area, was called and he came over. When the paddy wagon came the management said to us again, "I want you to leave this property." We refused to so the manager asked that we be arrested.
Lewis: Were there any thoughts of fear going through your mind when you found out you were about to be arrested?
Woodard: Well, I really feel that we were afraid because we did not know what would happen to us. We were very young, in fact most of us were 18 years of age, this was our second semester in college. We felt, we wanted to know how our parents would feel when they found out that we had gotten ourselves involved. We didn't talk to one another, believe it or not. We were just afraid. Once we were asked, ladies first, to get into the paddy wagon, yes, we did. And we, of course the young men were asked to get in after the young ladies. We were transported down to the facilities on Fayetteville Street in Raleigh known as the city jail.
Lewis: Now Mack, let's bring you into this conversation. You were a student leader at Shaw University. Is your story similar to Barbara's? And another thing is I understand that when you came on the scene there were actually two different sides of the protest; tell us about that.
Sowell: There are a number of similarities, I believe, with Barbara. There is a lull, and I say this all the time, there was kind of a lull in the movement from the time Barbara began because we were in what I call the second wave of the Civil Rights movement and they had already paved the way prior to our coming to Raleigh and enrolling at Shaw University. The movement that we began continued if you will from what they started. We called I the second wave because we decided that as long as there was any vestige of discrimination anywhere, that we, it needed to be protested, it needed to be moved and so therefore we determined that it was time to continue it, move it, keep it going until all discrimination was over, was done.
Lewis: Is there a particular demonstration event, because I understand you were involved in many demonstrations? But is there one that really sticks out in your mind?
Sowell: There are a number but I will lift up one or two. One was the night we decided that we would go to jail and that we were at the Sir Walter Hotel down at the coffee shop and prior to that time a few of us had decided that this is the night. We are going to jail and we didn't publish it nor spread it because we didn't want the adults to tell us not to go. And we kind of confined the activity to a few of the leaders but as it turned out, we crowded the jails, the jails were flooded with females and males to such an extent that the jails couldn't hold us all but they kept us in there anyway. The people that were, while we were in jail the people at Rochester Heights had taken up some food, I mean chips, smokes, and we were going to have a good time in jail but the sheriff decided we weren't going to get it and he kept it and so on. And later on it was decided that we should leave the jail. We refused to leave the jail. We wouldn't go. They opened the doors, the doors are open and you can leave, and we said no. Our strategy was that to press the issue, stay in jail, let the political currents go where they should so we stayed. Of course after that as a leader they determined that I should leave and check in with everybody at the movement headquarters and so on and so on.
Lewis: Yes, because I was wondering who made the decision for you all to stay?
Sowell: The students made the decision; we decided while we were there that we weren't leaving. We kind of had a little caucus and said no, we are not going. But of course they were trying to persuade us to leave. Well, you are free. But we decided we weren't going to leave. But eventually we did. And what happened after that, we got word that one of the students had been struck by one of the officers; I don't know whether it was true, we could never prove it. But it sparked another part of the movement; the classrooms at school emptied, the faculty became involved and the movement took on another round if you will.
Lewis: Now of course both of you were in this fight well before the Civil Rights Act which took place in 1964. But Mack I understand that you were president of the student government association in 1963.
Sowell: 1963-64.
Lewis: How did that affect the way you all approached Civil Rights?
Sowell: To me it was a continuing piece of my life; it was something that stayed with me, something that needed to be done. My parents always taught us there is a right way to treat everyone, there is justice for everyone, and so therefore I came up under that attitude and so I recognized that leadership requires responsibility, leadership requires sacrifice and we took it that seriously.
Lewis: And both of you talked about your parents. My question to you was what were their reactions when they found out that you all had been going to jail? I will start with you, Barbara.
Woodhouse: Because I am from Virginia Beach, Virginia, my parents did not realize what was going on. After I returned from the city jail I decided to call my parents. When I spoke with them, my father's reaction was, "You need to pack your clothes and you need to come home because we are afraid for you."
Lewis: Mack, what was the reaction of your folks since they told you to be a law-abiding citizen, what was their reaction?
Sowell: My father had already told me what I had better not do. And jail was one of them. And he was very upset to such an extent that he refused to allow me to go to the March on Washington when Dr. King led the march. The NAACP in Raleigh was chartering busses for us to go but I was talking to my parents and he emphatically told me, "You will not go." And during those days one did not go beyond the authority of his or her mother or father and he told me he would break my, and I won't use his words, but it hurt me that I could not go to the march after all of the participation but I had to obey him. And I obeyed and did not go. I had to watch it. It was a sad moment in my life but I had to do what he told me to do.
Lewis: Now Barbara we have another photo of you and the 13 others who were arrested; that is coming up on the screen. When you see that picture, what goes through your mind when you think about back in that time of those folks that you were with?
Woodhouse: I think about the fact that we were very nervous. And of course we had Judge George Green with us who was guiding us so let us say that the thinking came from our lawyer. Judge George Green, at that time was a Civil Rights lawyer, in fact NAACP lawyer. So we basically had to follow directions from him.
Lewis: Let's go a little bit further now that you have gone through this situation, you both have graduated, and you were part of a group of some of the first black teachers in Virginia Beach. Tell me what was that like?
Woodhouse: That was very challenging. I had taught for five years before Virginia Beach decided to desegregate the school facilities, the faculty. This was in the year 1968. It was very challenging because there were only two African-American teachers placed in the school at that time. And we were two African-American teachers among 35 white teachers.
Lewis: And Mack you had some challenges of your own; you decided to get involved in government in Johnston County. Tell us about your experience there.
Sowell: It was a very challenging experience when I decided to run for city council in Selma, North Carolina. Several incidents stand out but one in particular. Normally the second house vote getter would be named mayor pro temp. I was out of a field of about 15 candidates I came in number two behind the mayor and of course I was denied the mayor pro temp-ship if you will. And I remember my own protest at the city council meeting; I think I cut up fairly well that night and me and the city manager had a round or two in his office as well as with the other council members. We also led one of the first Civil Rights marches from Selma to Smithfield, North Carolina, kind of got things politically-heated if you will. And of course I lost my teaching position. That was an interesting piece. If you've ever been fired and everybody knows you are going to be fired and you go downtown to pick up your letter from your mailbox and everybody knows because it is a small town and that stayed in my mind. And one morning my wife thought I had been shot; some guys passed, some Caucasians passed, the street and "Boom" they pointed the gun out of the window. I turned around from their car; thank God it was blanks. But it was an experience. And of course the pressure to, being in the spotlight the superintendent's office sent people in to observe me. Of course up until that time I was a great teacher but after that I began to get people in the class doing observations and of course I ranked in the highest in observations. Of course that didn't stop things and so on and so on; very interesting.
Lewis: Now Barbara, of course you being a teacher, did you face some of those challenges as well, people perhaps questioning your abilities?
Woodhouse: Yes I did. As Mack has just said, from time to time you would say look at your classroom door and in the doorway would appear the face of a supervisor to see if you could teach the students at that time because as he has said, it was a challenge. Someone was always visiting your classroom to see if you could measure up to the other teachers that were in the school. And as I said a few moments ago, there were only two black teachers so your measuring up would be measuring against the white teachers.
Lewis: Of course it took a lot for both of you to endure what you endured. And I will address this to both of you. What was your inspiration or who inspired you to keep on going, because you seem to have made a lot of firsts in your efforts? And Mack, I will start off with you. Who inspired you to keep on, as they would say, fighting the good fight if you will?
Sowell: I think several pieces motivated me. I recall even today seeing in the Afro-American when I was a boy the face of Emmett Hill. I have never forgotten the image of his face. I, reading the story of the Scottsboro Boys stayed with me, has stayed with me all of my life. My father was a day laborer and every weekend there was a white police officer would sit down the hill from our house and he would say, "Ain't you drunk?" He used the "N" word and he would arrest him. And every weekend my mother had to go downtown and get him out of jail, whether right or wrong. And that stayed with me. And one time, one night there was an African-American man who was being arrested, he was across the street from our house. And the men, because he wouldn't cooperate, they beat him with a tire iron. I have never forgotten that beating. And it bothered me so because all of the other men stood around helpless and I couldn't understand why they couldn't stop the policeman from beating him and it bothered me, even right now, I just couldn't understand. And when my father, I talked to him and I said, "Why didn't you stop him? Why didn't you all grab him? Why didn't you do something?" But I didn't understand the dynamics of why he did not, but I do now. I know whey they could not stop him. But those kinds of things perhaps push me to continue and I guess it is in my blood to protest the wrong. And I guess I've been the one to, I had to burn me to believe it was fire. I had to go into the wall and hit my head up against the wall to understand it can't be done and that has kept me; even today I have to catch myself that, in my Malcolm X days I had to remember that he said something that stuck with me and it has guided me since: "I pick fights that I am going to win because the fight I get in it may cost me my life." So that has kind of been of the some guiding pieces in me.
Lewis: Barbara, what are some of the people or events that inspired you to get involved?
Woodhouse: I got involved because deep down in my soul I felt it was wrong for taxpaying citizens to have to eat or to have to visit any establishment wherein one sign said for white and the other sign said for black. I felt that was very wrong. Also I remembered when I was in elementary school myself; the facilities were not good at all. We were only provided half-day education. For example, the first and second grade students went to school in the morning. The third and fourth grade students went to school in the afternoon. We had to walk to school; school busses of white students passed by us. So when I got in the position to make the difference I thought that I would make the difference.
Lewis: And we are coming pretty close to our time here and I have a question for both of you. And it is usually the proverbial question that you hear and it is a multi-focal question here. One, do you believe that we have arrived when it comes to social injustices? Are all things equal? And the other thing is should we continue to make sure that folks are aware of what happened in the 60s and I will start off with you, Barbara.
Woodhouse: Yes I do think we should continue to make people aware, especially our young students, aware of what went on in the 60s. They need to; the young students of today need to be reminded time after time of what happened in the 60s, those persons who went to jail for them so that they could have the equality that they should have. The young students should be reminded or should be made aware of the fact of those who died so that they could have equal rights.
Lewis: Mack, your thoughts?
Sowell: On our arrival, we are not there yet. When I think about the fact and I will say this, I said it to the city council in Selma, North Carolina many, many years ago. For a black kid, does it take a PhD to get a job washing a car? And I will leave that as it is. And beyond a shadow of a doubt, we should continue to make everyone aware, like the piece they put at the Jewish Holocaust museum, "Never again." Never again should we allow it to happen.
Lewis: And I would like to thank you all for being here. It has been an honor listening to both of your stories. Thank you for joining us. Once again I'd like to thank Barbara Woodhouse and Reverend Mack Sowell for sharing their stories of courage with us. You can find more on the history of Raleigh's role in the Civil Rights Movement in the booklet Let us March On, published by the Raleigh City Museum. For a transcript of this episode of Black Issues Forum please visit us online at www.unctv.org/bif or call us with your comments at 919-549-7167. For Black Issues Forum, I am Mitchell Lewis. Thanks for watching.
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