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Episode #2124
Shirley Caesar: Faith in Home Ownership
Lewis: We've seen her faith at work in the church and in her recordings as an 11-time Grammy award winning artist. Now she's placing faith at the doorstep of a new opportunity in hopes of helping more North Carolinians realize their dream of home ownership. Meet Pastor Shirley Caesar and hear about her new and growing partnership in Raleigh next on Black Issues Forum.
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Lewis: Hello, everyone and welcome to Black Issues Forum. I'm Mitchell Lewis. Today we have the honor of welcoming one of North Carolina's most inspirational leaders. She has earned the title, The First Lady of Gospel. Over the last four decades Shirley Caesar has spent her life creating and delivering music with a message of hope and encouragement inspiring millions along the way and receiving numerous awards for her albums. In addition to her performing career Shirley Caesar is Pastor of the Mount Calvary Word of Faith Church in Raleigh.
Well, as much as we would like to talk to Pastor Caesar about her life and singing career, she has come here today along with two other guests to talk about another topic that is on her heart. It's the issue of home ownership. In its 2006 State of Black America report the National Urban League found that only 50% of African Americans own their homes compared to 70% of whites. To help close the housing gap Pastor Caesar has joined ministers in the Triangle area and the Communities of Faith Home Ownership Challenge. Today we are going to talk about the challenge as well as the many challenges that African Americans face in their pursuit of home ownership.
First of all I'd like to welcome Pastor Shirley Caesar to the program. I'd also like to welcome Frederick A. Davis, Pastor of First Calvary Baptist Church in Durham and Laurie Jones Gibbs, the Vice-President of Affordable Housing Industry Affairs for Genworth Financial Mortgage Insurance Business. And to all of you, welcome to Black Issues Forum.
Ms. Gibbs, I will start off with you. What is the Communities of Faith Homeowner Challenge?
Gibbs: The Communities of Faith Homeownership Challenge is an initiative that Genworth Financial is doing in partnership with Pastors Shirley Caesar and Pastor Frederick Davis to work with the faith communities both in Raleigh and Durham County to help as many citizens as well as their members realize the dream of home ownership.
Lewis: And Pastor Caesar, why did you decide to become a part of this challenge?
Caesar: Well, because of the fact that God has blessed us and we have like 45 acres of land that we would like to see first-time home owners be a part of. But also homes for the elderly and I just believe that everybody should own their own homes if they really want to.
Lewis: Pastor Davis, as pastor of a church in Durham and as you look over your community, what do you see as some of the challenges facing your community when it comes to home ownership?
Davis: Well, helping people believe that they can become home owners by helping them become more astute and good stewards in their own financial affairs and I am looking forward to being a part of that.
Lewis: Ms. Gibbs, in your travels you have a vast amount of experience in dealing with home ownership. What are some of the things that you are seeing as far as some of the challenges?
Gibbs: I think the challenge is making sure that the consumer, the home borrower understands that when they go to buy a home they need to make sure that they are working with reputable lenders and they are working with reputable home buying counseling agencies. There are three basic criteria that lenders look at whether you are buying a home, a car, or a boat. And I like to say the first is stability, the second is ability and the third is willingness. Those are credit standards that basically say, "What is your stability? How long have you been on your job? What is your ability to repay the loan that you are requesting in addition to the existing debts you have? And then what has your willingness been when you've had credit in the past, how have you paid that credit?''
Lewis: According to a National Urban League report it is stated that racial discrimination still exists when it comes to lending for African Americans and other minorities. What are some of the factors, you talked about the factors in order to get a home loan, do you still see that as a concern with discrimination?
Gibbs: What I see is people not having knowledge of realizing where the opportunities are. So I like to often say that once you inform the consumer, if there is racial discrimination going on and they know how to overcome it, they will overcome it. Me, myself, being working for a mortgage insurance company, we work all the time with those lenders who are working to help all people become homeowners.
Lewis: Pastor Caesar, let's get you back into this conversation. I see you over there shaking your head. So go ahead.
Caesar: Well, I would like to take it a bit further. I think that-well, first let me say this, from the time that I was a child I was taught to save. We don't have enough of our brothers and our sisters in our communities that is willing to save. In order to buy something you've got to have some money. So you pay your tithes, you spend some, but you save some. Because the day will come when you are going to get tired of renting. When we look at paying rent today, on this side of the ledger sheet you put the name of the rental agents that you are renting from. Put your name over here. At the end of the month, add up what you have paid out. And add up what you have over here. You got a goose egg over here and you've spent thousands of dollars over here. So now you must think in terms, number one, that I am tired of renting. I am tired of paying somebody's mortgage. I want to have something for myself. Can I take that little bit for-I want to have something for myself. So that says to us, number one, when you get your check on Friday, don't go downtown or go to the mall and spend everything because you got to think past a new dress. You got to think past a pair of shoes and know that your children one day will also want to play where there is some green grass and I want to be able to have my own room and so forth. And I could really go further but I don't want to just hog it. [LAUGHTER]
Lewis: But just to back up a little bit, Pastor Caesar, when we were talking about discrimination, have you seen any types of signs of discrimination when it comes to home ownership?
Caesar: I saw signs when I tried to build my church and the same banks where I was saving my money. And what's happening, my brother, is that we put our monies in banks that will not loan monies to us when we get ready to buy our home. And this is why __ this is why she is here because there is a better way. Firs thing I did is when they would not loan us monies to build my church I went back and took my little money out. And I put it in a bank that now is reaching back and helping us. So I just call a spade a spade.
Lewis: Pastor Davis, have you seen that type of challenge as far as your community, your church is concerned?
Davis: Well, in our community I am sure that there are probably individuals who have had those types of experiences. This is still America. But we are just trying to get people to be encouraged to find the best institution that is going to meet their needs. Red, yellow, black or white. It's about your needs being met. And all people have all type of situations that possibly prohibit them from some institutions being able to lend them and then others. But you have to be in charge. And hopefully through these communities of faith challenge we are getting people to understand the options that they have and they won't have to rely on one particular institution.
Lewis: And Pastor Caesar, I will pass this question onto you, along with the challenge what will be the role of the churches in dealing with these communities of faith homeowners challenge?
Caesar: Well, the main thing is that we need to begin to educate our people and let them know that you can own your own home. Show them how. And here again, this is why I am sitting here with her. Because I want to be a part of, not only in my church, but I want to show communities how they in fact, can own their own homes.
Lewis: Ms. Gibbs, you heard Pastor Caesar talk about lack of information, lack of knowledge, you talked about it earlier. Are there any types of myths or misunderstandings when it comes to home ownership that sort of like draws African Americans as well as others away from pursuing to buy that home?
Gibbs: Most definitely. One of the largest myths is the fact that people think you need a lot of money to get into a home. Genworth Financial Mortgage Insurance basically that is what we do. We help dispel that myth. You can get into a home with as little as 3% down and depending on your credit and some cases with no money down payment. But there is this myth out here in our community that you have to have a lot of money to buy a house. So let's please dispel that myth. That is what we are going to be doing with this initiative. We are going to be doing this not only by working with Pastor Caesar and Pastor Frederick Davis but we are working with very local non-profits who do this everyday to help people understand their options. We are partnered with organizations in both Raleigh, Wake County, Durham County and Orange County to make sure that our citizens will get the right information and understand the benefits of mortgage insurance and how not only do we help people get into homes, we help them stay there.
Lewis: Pastor Davis, any myths that come across your mind?
Davis: Well, I would join in agreement with Sister Gibbs. What we try to do is make people understand the whole world of financial management and financial matters. Twice a year, eight weeks out of a year, twice a year we have what is called our Financial Literacy Bible Study. So while I am doing the main bible study in the sanctuary we have an elective bible study class called Financial Literacy. So we believe in getting people educated and understanding their financial matters. It is a myth that we can't do it. We can. Scripture says we can do all the things through Christ which strengthens us.
Caesar: And may I just also add, there is that bunch who would say I don't know if I would want to own my own home because number one, I don't have to cut grass. I don't have to worry about fixing a leaky roof. I don't have to worry about fixing windows where the air is coming out. I don't have to worry about any of that. But still, the bottom line is that you end up with nothing at the end of the year, at the end of the month, you end up with zero. And with 3% who would not want to take this challenge of 3% down? Who would not want to take that challenge? And walk with your shoulders back and say, yes, I am a homeowner.
Lewis: Just how important is it to be a homeowner if you just break it down to the bottom line? Just how important is it?
Caesar: Want to take that first?
Gibbs: Well, home ownership is an improvement. Home ownership lifts community, helps stabilize community, stabilizes families. Various studies have been done by the Harvard School of housing that basically have shown that children who live in a home that their parents own on average perform better in school than those who don't. Those children have an 80% greater chance of going on to college than children who do not live in a home. So it has more than a work creation opportunity, it has a social commitment to helping families and communities stabilize themselves and when we have stable communities that are healthy and stable families that are healthy we are able to move on and do the work that we need to do in our communities.
Caesar: And you know what else? When you own your own home, one of the main things is that you want to do is keep your neighborhood up. You know, not seeing clothes hanging out of windows or broken windows or shabby upkeep on your yard. It's something about owning your own home, it just gives you that integrity that I want my house to look as good as anybody else's house in the community.
Lewis: Pastor Davis, what impact perhaps have you seen of people who actually own their own homes?
Davis: Well, it brings about a difference in their own perspective about living. Home ownership versus partnership through other types of means brings forth a greater stewardship in a person's life, from my perspective, theologically and pastorally. In our neighborhood of the west end we are noticing various programs where home ownership is being instituted, institutions such as Habitat for Humanity home ownership. We are seeing a difference in the transition of the neighborhood not so many transitional people coming in and coming out, coming in and coming out, but now you are seeing developments coming up. May not be developments of Rock Creek or Wood Lake or Woodcroft but they are home developments and people are proud and a sense of community is being developed when you have home ownership.
Lewis: Ms. Gibbs, you touched on this a little bit earlier but what about those folks, you know, there is always that fear of owning a home but then there is another fear of perhaps losing the home. What types of programs are out there to ensure that people will be able to keep a home once they get it?
Gibbs: Well, at Genworth Financial Mortgage Insurance, again, in addition to low down payments we have programs that protect the consumer against job loss and/or disability. And these programs are basically designed because if you look at why people fall behind on their mortgage payments, not intentionally, they fall behind because they had a hardship. So what we wanted to do was create a program that also provided to help people getting a home. Why six months? Because generally a person can find a new job opportunity within a six month's window.
Lewis: And of course, there are a lot of agencies out there to assist. Are there any that you would suggest? I know there are plenty of them and we will try to have those on our website because there are so many. But are there any in particular that you feel that really stand out in terms of assistance?
Gibbs: Well, yes. Organizations that we are working with in this community in faith initiative are as follows. In Wake County we are working with the Downtown Housing Improvement Corporation and we are working with Passage Homes. In Durham County we are working with Durham Affordable Housing Coalition and the North Carolina Institute for Minority Economic Development. And in Orange County we are working with Orange County Community Housing and Land Trustee and Empowerment Inc. All these organizations are extremely talented in helping making sure that the consumer understands all their options. The key to this initiative is not only are we working with those consumers who are home-ready which is our initial targeted audience. But in working with these non-profits those persons who may have some credit challenges, they will be able to take them through the steps and tell them what they need to do within six months, 12 months, to become a homeowner.
Lewis: Pastor Caesar, what advice would you give to those people who may have that fear of losing their home? What would you tell them?
Caesar: Let's see. Well, being a pastor I do know that fear is of the devil. I know that the enemy comes to bring all kinds and all types of fears into our hearts and into our minds. Number one, I guess I'd get in touch with Genworth. And I would get in touch with them and I would just tell myself, "Hey, I know that I have got to pay this house note and no matter what comes or goes after I've tithed and after I give God his part, I am making sure that I got this money laid aside to pay my note every month." It's all about priority. You've got to put your priorities in the right place.
Lewis: How is it-was this a part of your life as you were growing up? Talk about that.
Caesar: When I was a little girl growing up we-well, I coma form a long line of poor folk. I would say poor folk. It doesn't have the o or the r there. But I told myself, I said, "Lord, if you bless me to be able to pull my mom up and out of here, I promise you I am going to reach back and I am going to help somebody else." And for years, for 30-something years, I've had like an outreach ministry that would give emergency shelter and funds to needy families. And then, lo and behold, here comes along this precious darling to say, "Will you help me to carry the message a little further. Not just give a piece of bread to eat but let's also get a stable roof over their heads." And I believe that it is going to start with them. It's not so much about us educating them and of course we got to do that, Pastor. But they got to see something within themselves and they've got to tell themselves, "I need something for me. I need something for my family. I need something for my children. I need something for me." And when you tell yourself that then you are going to do everything that you possibly can not only to get that home but to get it and keep it.
Lewis: Pastor Davis, what words of encouragement would you give to people in there efforts to become home owners?
Davis: Well, the key again, is understanding your financial stability. Understanding where you are financially. And then develop a plan and then work that plan. Be consistent in working that plan. And don't try to bite off more than the plan will offer you to afford.
Caesar: Amen.
Davis: And go forward. Don't be afraid. Move by faith. But also make sure your faith is within the plan of your financial ability. And I think it can work.
Lewis: And Pastor Caesar, I understand, well you got another faith at work dealing with Calvary City. Tell us about that project.
Caesar: Calvary City is a vision and a dream that God has given to me. Some years ago I was in upper Marlboro, Maryland and ran into this lady pastor, if you will, she has Jericho City. She has like 22,000 members. And I said, "Lord, if you can use her you can use me." And the Lord blessed us to buy all of this land. We have like, well, we are buying 42-1/2 acres but then we had acreages left over from the 10 acres that we bought to build our home. Or to build the church. I'm sorry. And as a result of that I said, "Lord, I know that you can use me." And so from Jericho City to Calvary City we have the land. And now I just believe with all of my heart that any day that we are going to begin building homes for the elderly and leaving a lot of acreages for first-time homeowners. This is where my heart is and we are going to do it.
Lewis: Ms. Gibbs, what steps should a person take especially someone listening right now, they want to become a homeowner, what steps would you suggest to them?
Gibbs: The very first thing I always tell someone to do is if you want to buy a home, the very first thing you really should do is get a copy of your credit report so that you know that everything that is on your credit report is yours. After that I say contact one of the local housing non-profits that I mentioned earlier who actually have home ownership workshops that really will help you understand all the steps to home ownership. Who the players are. This home ownership, there are a lot of players. You have appraisers, you have realtors, you have lenders, you have closing attorneys. You need to understand all their roles but what you need to understand first and foremost is what is my financial situation and what does my credit look like?
Lewis: And I'll probably address this to both of the pastors here and I will start with you, Pastor Davis, what would you like to see accomplished through the Communities of Faith Home Ownership Challenge.
Davis: Well, when the program is developed and started in Durham we will not only just have it just germane to membership, the congregation of First Calvary but to all citizens of Durham County because we are not only just trying to reach our people but all people of all kind to come and be educated and be enlightened. And so we are hoping that-again, our motto is we are the exciting church excited about its mission. And our mission is to reach all across the community of Durham and so we are looking forward to this being another initiative of the many other initiatives that we have of educating people towards being financially sound.
Lewis: Pastor Caesar, you are-
Caesar: Years ago when I was on the city council, one of the main things that I fought for was affordable housing. I still feel that this is what we need and in many of our communities in Raleigh and in Durham and I'm kin to both because I'm born and raised in Durham but I live in Raleigh. But I just feel that they need to begin to know that there are a lot of beautiful homes out there that is affordable and then come and find this girl. And God will just open that door. And it's not just for this church or that church. As pastor has said, but it's whosoever will.
Lewis: And bringing it back to you, Ms. Gibbs. If folks want to find out more about the challenge, what do they need to do?
Gibbs: Well, we are going to have an announcement that will be kicked off at Pastor Shirley Caesar's annual Will Thou Be Made Whole conference? That announcement will be made in its totality on July 9th at the 7:30 evening service. But more importantly during the week of July 10th we will be having home ownership workshops that are open free to the public where we will have these non-profit groups that I've talked to you about as well as lending partners who will be there to help those in attendance understand where they are at on the home buying path.
Lewis: And I believe we will stop it here to all three of you, thank you for being on the program and continued success to all three of you. One again I would like to thank Pastor Shirley Caesar, Pastor Frederick A. Davis, and Lori Jones Gibbs for stopping by. If you would like to learn more about the Communities of Faith Home ownership Challenge or today's guests, please visit us online at unctv.or/bif. When you visit be sure to give us your comments and program suggestions. You can also call us on the BIFline at 919-549-7167. For Black Issues Forum, I'm Mitchell Lewis. Thanks for watching.
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