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Episode #2207
Black Leadership for a New Generation
Lewis: It seems that since the days of Martin Luther King Jr. black America has sought to identify someone who could lead the community to social, political and economic parity with white America. But many of the leaders who grew out of civil rights have been accused of being out of touch with the needs and vision of today’s generation and, in fact, failing to pass the baton. What are our understanding and expectations of black leadership for tomorrow’s generation? We’ll talk about it next on Black Issues Forum.
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Lewis: Hello, everyone and welcome to Black Issues Forum. I am Mitchell Lewis. The notion of black leadership today is highly debatable. While some are arguing over who the next leader should be others argue that the people and concerns of the African American community are too diverse to be managed by a single individual or group. Meanwhile racial disparities and education, income and health persist. Today, we’ll talk to those who are working as leaders in their own right in the trenches of community action and education to try and gain some sense about today’s leadership, it’s power, impact, action and relevance for this generation. I’d like to introduce and welcome the Reverend Dr. William A Barber, President of North Carolina’s statewide NAACP. Erin Byrd, former director of Southerners for Economic Justice and now the Civic Engagement Coordinator with Blueprint North Carolina. And Ashley Rozier II, Director of the Cape Fear Regional Bureau for Community Action. And to all three of you, welcome to Black Issues Forum.
Erin, I’ll start off with you. Why does there seem to be a shortage of leadership in the African American community or do you see that there is a shortage of leadership?
Byrd: Well, the model of Southerners for Economic Justice is that we are the people that we are waiting on. So I don’t know that I necessarily see a lack of black leadership. I think that we don’t recognize ourselves as leaders. So we have parents that are involved in the PTA, a lot of families working in their churches, you know, people volunteering at shelters. I mean, there is all kinds of examples of African Americans that are serving their community and we don’t recognizes them as leaders and I think that’s the mistake that we are making as a community. Instead of looking to one person to lead us, we should accept out own responsibility as individual leaders.
Lewis: Ashley, do you see a shortage in leadership?
Rozier: Oh, indeed I do. The shortage of leadership in North Carolina the same across this nation, we don’t have the ___. We don’t have the Harriet Tubmans and the Frederick Douglass’s. Most of our leadership in the state of North Carolina is more interested in the status quo. We are looking for the Caucasian community to bail us out and that is a misnomer that we have in communities of African descent. Dr. King, I feel, was God-led, that was spiritually led. But most of our great leadership in this country came from very humble beginnings and they were very submissive people but they knew when to be assertive and to be aggressive and when to retreat. You know, I agree with her from the standpoint of people working in soup kitchens and people doing their own work in the community. But because of the Willie Lynch during the 1700’s and this crab syndrome, institutionalized racism has completely destroyed the work efforts that the Harriet Tubmans and the ____ even the Malcom Xs.
It is politically correct to talk about Dr. King but we need to readdress our leadership in the community even when Bill Cosby talked about the black leadership in this country not criticizing drug dealers. We are still talking about white folks need to stop giving more sentences to people who are doing crack cocaine as they say on the street corner, ready rocks. Well, then we ourselves in the black community need to go out and protest against drug dealers on the corner and clean up our own neighborhoods and stop looking for whites to bail us out. We ourselves need to teach our young black men to pull their pants up and stop giving awards, the image awards and music awards to rappers who calling women negative names. So it is out responsibility.
Lewis: Dr. Barber, let me get you in on this especially as a major leader here in North Carolina. Do you see a shortage of leadership?
Barber: I think it depends on how you approach that question. First of all when you say that there are people who accuse leadership with being out of touch, who is making that accusation? Is it Juan Williams who is in some sense trying to suggest that what we really need is some kind of neo-conservative movement where we just focus on personal issues rather than social immorality and public policy issues? I think that we never had one leadership. That’s a misreading of history. Martin Luther King was not the leader. He stood on the shoulders of many. There were many people who just weren’t named because the media didn’t pay attention to them. The history books haven’t recorded them. We have always had a multi-faceted leadership.
Then the other thing we have to remember, theologically, leadership evolves out of crisis. People rise to the fore out of crisis and so we have two issues we have to deal with. We have to deal with sometimes the crisis that Rozier talks about in personal morality but then we have to deal with the crisis of public morality like when we talk about our children going to school for instance and behaving. Most of them do. Ninety percent of them do. But on the other hand when we have a system that is deliberately withholding the best qualified teachers, when we believe in the NAACP we have two constitutional things that are being violated. Number one the state constitution that guarantees a sound, basic right to every child for education. And then the federal constitution that says we ought not have segregation. We see two of those things exacerbated in the empirical data. That’s not a personal issue. That’s not what the parent does. That’s what a system does and that’s what we have to leadership that challenges that.
Lewis: Now you were saying that there had to be a crisis. As you look at the situation now, what do you see as the major issues confronting the African American community in which leadership needs to be involved and especially African American leadership?
Barber:Well, you know, we just came out of a major piece called HK on J [ph] which took place on February 10th this year actually and we identified 14 areas from education, the issue of resegregation, the issue of not allowing a sound, basic education to be to all children. The issue of health—with 22% of this state, 25% without healthcare. The issue of the prisons where we called for a mandatory halt on—moratorium on prison building. And we put more money on the front end of life than the back end of life. The issue of 200 years of discrimination of minority hiring and contracting. The fact that we haven’t redressed the Wilmington riot in 1898 as we should. The fact that when we went HK on J there is a war that we are in that has done devastating things to poor and African Americans communities. And there were 14 parts that we listed out. The fact that we don’t have a collected bargaining in this state. And what that does and how it hinders people. And we don’t have a livable wage. These are public issues that must be challenged public. Not by a leader. But by collective leadership. Where we need all of us together to challenge those. And I would even say not just black folk. But if you remember the Civil Rights movement, it was black, it was white, it was young, it was old. It was people who think right and want to do right. It’s like in slavery. It was the abolitionists working with Harriet Tubmans.
Lewis: And, Erin, since Dr. Barber was talking about collectiveness, you have been dealing with unity within—not to sound kind of cliché, it’s unity in the community. Talk about some of the efforts that you have been dealing with.
Byrd: Well, I think that this is a pretty historic moment in North Carolina’s history because we have several movements that have been coming together over the last few years. In 2005 and in 2006 the Women of Color Legislative Day and the People of Color Legislative Day some of what Reverend Barber is talking about bringing these issues together and having people lobby their legislators on those issues. The HK on J which is a huge movement in of itself. The Alliance of Black Elected Officials which has brought together a number of black elected officials across the state to agree on a covenant that addresses education, civic participation, healthcare and those issues. So these same issues keep coming together again and again and now that I am the Civic Engagement Coordinator for Blueprint North Carolina which is a coalition of statewide policy advocacy groups representing 35-40 organizations and we are all trying to figure out how we are going to be able to come together and collectively resolve these issues. And I think that is our challenge, not trying to work in isolation anymore. But realizing that the issues are connected and that we have to resolve them together.
Lewis: Now I know you want to say something, Ashley, but before I get back to you, explain to our audience what is HK on J? What does it stand for?
Byrd: Historic Thousands on Jones Street, is what it stands for. And I think that for me it is an incredible movement when you galvanize people at the grassroots, working people, mothers, children, families, to come and to stand on the 14 points that Reverend Barber has already addressed. Because I think when you talk about being at—we’re at a crisis right now. And it is not—I believe that part of it is moral and individual issue that we have to address and face in our own communities. But I think that also there is the systematic racism that we have been dealing with in this racial wealth gap between the richest and the poorest that is continuing to grow not only in America but across the globe and all of these issues are connected. When you suck the wealth out of the poor there are repercussions to that and I don’t think we can blame poor people for being poor and assume that they enjoy their poverty. I mean, that is ludicrous to me.
Lewis: Ashley, when you look at, because you work on the ground roots, grassroots level, what are some of the things that you are seeing?
Rozier: Well, quite honestly, being honest with you it is extremely important for us to understand, myself as a grassroots individual who has probably walked the streets in North Carolina probably more than anyone in the state in poor neighborhoods at 2:00 and 3:00 in the morning, who has seen an old lady not just to be popularized on television that she needs some insulin for her diabetes. But it is extremely important to understand that the black community themselves must control their own destiny first of all before we go out and ask for handouts and to be beggars. I take a very independent stand as a person who is not a Democrat or a Republican. I changed the Democratic Party years ago because, you know, the Democratic Party in North Carolina, across this nation takes us for granted. They know they are going to get our vote. But we need to deal with issues and an agenda when it comes to social justice and equality, when it comes to economic and healthcare and prevention in our great state. The problem is that we have these elected leaders and we have ministers, we are building so many churches but at the same time we are building prisons. I call them plantations in jails. It is exceedingly important for us in this community to begin to elect black leadership that is not ___ and bought and already stamped and delivered. The grassroots community is very tired of this. The same 300-400 people, you can go anywhere from Mecklenburg County all the way to New Hanover County to Cumberland County to Wayne County. You see the same 200 and 300 Negroes and the Negro race at these meetings. You know, but when are we going to __ Jesus did? Went out in the byways and hedges and trenches and taught people about morality. Talked to people about controlling their own destiny. We never have our great leadership doing that. Even Michael Jordan was one of the most expensive slaves in history. That might sound controversial but you got to understand that here is this man, these kids kill themselves for sneakers. These same very kids. Even though we know the system is very prejudiced we know about institutionalized racism but until we go back and reeducate our people, there are a lot of miseducated Negroes in the Negro race. And until we take heed to these problems ourselves, we need to leave the system alone until we ourselves do what we can do. And most of us who are in leadership roles across the state, as soon as we get these leadership roles, become these directors, these lawyers and these doctors, we don’t identify no more. We don’t have William Barbers across North Carolina in this country, as a young man I am 49. I’ll be 49 very soon. Barber does a great deal for North Carolina but there are many people—I’ve met people across the state who have a dislike for William Barber because he is not political correct. We have very good, very poor leadership in North Carolina and across the country.
Lewis: Well, Dr. Barber, I would like to get your thoughts on what Ashley has said.
Barber: Well, what Ashley is dealing with is dealing with both ___. The reality is that you can’t help anybody if you don’t care about your own self and your own community. He is talking about that prophetic move, the Jesus talked about, where for instance clergy understand themselves. Not just as priests and pastors but as prophets who challenge the community, who challenge the status quo, who refuse to be bought off. He is talking about our generation refusing this gangster rap and the negative thing and doing like __ Rock did when he said in ’86 I was lethal because I came out for a grass movement that was rocking for the people. You know, that kind of thing. On the other hand we got to challenge the system that we are in. What I think we have to have in leadership, black leadership, is people who do not forget their role as black leaders. And that when black leaders have stood up, it has always benefited all of America, all of North Carolina. For instance, I can never forget as President of the National Association of Advancement for Colored People that we began with folk that were lynched and we still see how our people’s dreams being lynched today, opportunities lynched today. And I can’t ever forget that word—National Association for Advancement, not for banquet, not for just sitting around, not for just wearing a title, but for advancement. So as long as the empirical data says there is some people behind, then I have things I have to do. We have things we have to do and fight for advancement. Now I will say this: Thurgood Marshall said to us, too, remember that a black snake can bite you just like a white one. And so I never forget that because I am a student of King, he wanted the beloved community and his last march he was talking about was poor people coming together, black and white. He was down there with garbage workers and I think I hear Ashley—because he is right. He is in the grassroots and we cannot ever allow our titles to separate us from the very people whose shoulders we stand on that have given us the opportunity to have the title. The only purpose of a title is to change things for the better.
Lewis: Erin, let me get you back in. How can we bring the youth in to understand the importance of leadership?
Byrd: Well, I think one of the first things we have to address is the hypocrisy in our culture as it is—as it manifests towards youth. I mean, there is an intense amount of youth oppression, negative stereotyping of youth, oh, they dress this way, of, they do that. But we don’t look at our overall culture. We say don’t kill. We’re in this immoral war against Iraq and we have the death penalty and we kill criminals. You know, particularly if you are African American and you perpetrate a crime on white person, you are more likely to die. I mean, I can go through instance again and instance again of things we are doing in our own culture that don’t represent the types of values that we say we want to pass on to our children. So in that sense we really have to step up and be, I want to say be the role models that we are supposed to be. That’s one thing. Secondly, we always talk about how bad these kids are, how bad these kids are. When was the last time you spent some time mentoring a child? When was the last time you went to the school whether you have children or not and spent some time in the classroom with these students doing mentoring or doing tutoring? When was the last time you picked up some kids and took them to one of these local community meetings? When was the last time you served the youth yourself, you know, out of your own pocket? When did you cut a check for a youth program? And so we always—I don’t even understand that. We always want youth to do this and want youth to do that but we don’t provide the opportunity. And then as organizations we bring youth on and we create these programs, we ask them to do stuff. We don’t give them the right to make the decision about the program. We don’t show them the budgets of our organizations. You know what I’m saying? We are not building in those types of leadership steps.
Barber: And you got 57 out of every 100 African American students, males in particular, that are not performing at grade level. The state owes hundreds of millions of dollars according to the Supreme Court of this state to poor and disadvantaged youth that it has not paid for 10 years. And yet when a kid does a crime we want to put them under the jail and build a new jail and start identifying how many prisons we need based on ___ . That hypocrisy has got to stop. That’s, I think the greatest thing that tears young people away from the movement.
Rozier: I’d like to speak on that also when it comes to the judiciary system, the social injustice and equality. One of the problems we have, like the Duke lacrosse case, I’m for justice no matter what racial or ethnic background you come from. I envy the Caucasian community when it comes to this case. We have many men of African American descent that are accused falsely of rape charges, accused falsely of murder, accused falsely of breaking and entering. It’s a known fact. The white community in the Duke area, the Durham area and across this state has mobilized. Even the governor. And Nifong, the district attorney, is in trouble. Well, if he is in trouble because he did not do right, of course, maybe whatever the bar association says and whatever penalty he gets, that’s fine and dandy. But as a grassroots individual also why is it that the communities of African descent, when there is a black accused falsely of a crime, why do we not mobilize in our community? You see, it’s different when the white community—so many grassroots people in the community—I know many men in the prison system, I go into the Cumberland County detention center, I go to prisons across the state, many of them are talking to me about this. There are young black males in prison right now, did not do the crime. But they are in prison. The black community is not standing out here. They are not on top of a building shouting for justice. I admire the support of the Duke lacrosse players. I wish the black community would do the same.
Lewis: So what do you believe that the leaders in the black community should be doing and, Dr. Barber, I ask you to chime in.
Barber: Well, I can tell you what we are doing. I always remind people I was born two days after the march on Washington. I think that marked me some. So HK on J for instance we spent a whole year organizing 61 organizations to come together around the 14 on agenda. Now we are organizing thousands of grassroots lobbyists, because we are training people at the grassroots to hold the people they elect accountable and if they do not carry out your agenda then you have a responsibility to remove them from office, i.e. run for the office yourself. We got a have that happen. We can’t have grassroots people always looking to somebody else. We need many grassroots people running for it. So we have organized, we organized HK on J and we are pushing a return to the fire, to the energy, to the tenacity and to the focus of grassroots. And that is what we want to contribute in the NAACP and we say that it’s not—it’s not longer a need for a moment, we need a movement. We need a fresh movement of radical thinking people in North Carolina that will fight for the best for all people.
Lewis: Erin, what role do you feel that the general assembly should play, the legislature when it comes to leadership?
Byrd: Well, I think that we have a black caucus—I’m not sure how many. It was 22 at one point. It may be about that or a few more than that. And I think that really we ought to be watching them to play strong leadership roles because with that number of black elected officials, they together could collectively stop any type of legislation that was bad for our communities or push any legislation that is going to benefit our communities. And so I think that is one of the things that I am looking to and I think all of us should be looking to and watching that very closely. And then in holding them accountable we have an agenda, we are going to lobby on this agenda, then after the agenda has gone through and votes have been taken we are going to tally that. We are going to develop scorecards. We are going to get those out in our community so that our people know these are the issues. This is what your legislator did for you. This is the legislator that didn’t serve your community and keep moving and growing this movement and that’s what we have to do. We have to hold them accountable.
Barber: And many legislators that do not—they get elected only by the black vote. And we got to stop that. We go to quit that. And I am appalled at this state that we don’t have an African American sitting at the top number on position in any of the three levels of government. That is a serious indictment in 2007.
Rozier: And the reason why that you don’t have a black elected at the top three major state positions as an elected official in North Carolina General Assembly is because the black race needs to stop saying they are Democrats. The problem is we need to become registered independent voters. The Democratic Party takes our vote for granted. We are not Neanderthals and Ice Age people. We are thinking people and we need to stop being gullible. We are laughing stocks, you know. We need to deal with issues and an agenda. Even the legislative black caucus, many of them are controlled and bought by some of the white politicians. Many of our legislative black caucus members are not representing the people. It is clearly shown that if we have more black elected officials—I am not saying that black elected officials should not deal with many progressive Caucasians. But many of our black elected officials are used. What they will do is there are certain white politicians in the general assembly across this state who will tell them how to vote. Even the minimum wage in North Carolina is ridiculous--$6.15. You know, there are so many issues in North Carolina that need to be addressed when it comes to healthcare, when it comes to economics. But we are not addressing these issues straight up. If these black politicians would go out and tell these white politicians who are running in our community for congress that this person did not vote for the benefit, betterment of our community then we could start listening to some Republicans also. I know many blacks don’t want to hear that but we need to challenge the Democratic Party.
Lewis: I hate to hold you—but, Erin, we have about 30 seconds left and I understand you are affiliated with the Alliance for Black Leadership. Tell us about that.
Byrd: That’s right. Well, the Alliance of Black Elected Officials is like an alliance of black elected officials, municipal, statewide, local, county level, that have come together around a covenant some of the issues that we have already talked about. And they actually have a conference coming up April the 27th and 28th. It is going to be held in Raleigh. And you can, you know, Google the North Carolina Black Summit and that will pull up that agenda and some more information about that. I think it is hopeful again—you know, we talked about holding black elected officials accountable so they have developed a covenant and a covenant is, that is moral language that means that you are standing on your word and God’s word that you are going to support these issues. So I am pretty excited about that. And we will be watching.
Lewis: And we’ll have to stop it here. We’ll have to bring this conversation up once again. I thank you so very much for your input. I would like to thank Reverend Barber, Erin Byrd and Ashley Rozier for coming out today. If you would like to get in touch with our guests or obtain a copy or transcript of tonight’s show, visit us online at unctv.org/bif. When you visit be sure to give us your comments and program suggestions. You can also call us on the BIFline at 919-549-7167. For Black Issues Forum I am Mitchell Lewis. Thanks for watching.
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