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Episode #2213
Why Black Boys Need a Hero
B-Brown: Increasingly we’re being told that African-American boys are in crisis. They’re leading the state and nation, but not in areas you’d want to boast about. Who will take up the struggle and fight the foes of poverty, racism and self-destruction on behalf of our young men? We’ll talk about it next on Black Issues Forum.
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B-Brown: Hello everyone. Welcome to Black Issues Forum, I’m Natalie Bullock-Brown. There is almost no need to outline the statistics that label today’s young African-American males, but we’ll note just a few. According to a study by Harvard University professor Pedro Antonia Negara, African-American males lead the nation in homicides, have the fastest growing rates for suicide, have been contracting HIV and AIDS at a faster rate than any other segment of the population and are at the top of the charts in terms of incarceration.
Negara has found that even as babies, black males have the highest probability of dying in the first year of life. It appears African-American boys are being attacked from all sides, and today’s guests are working to address the crisis both as parents and professionals. I’d like to introduce and welcome to the program Dr. Alfiee Breland-Noble, a professor in the Department of Psychiatry and Behavioral Sciences at Duke University Medical Center. We also have with us Landon Adams, executive director of the Triangle Lost Generation Task Force, Incorporated. And we’re also glad to have Minister Earl Callair, a youth pastor at Body of Christ Church, in Raleigh. Welcome all of you to the show.
Now those are really disturbing statistics. And we didn’t even give the percentages, we just know that they are at the top in all these areas. Alfiee, could you just give us the sort of—couch this whole thing. Why are we seeing such disturbing numbers for our black men?
B-Noble: I think there are a number of reasons, but two things I’d like to point out initially are that the salient aspects of my work have to do with looking at African-American males from a resilient, attribute perspective.
B-Brown: What does that mean?
B-Noble: Well, instead of focusing on all those things, like the statistics you cited earlier by professor Negara, while those things are important, it is also important to acknowledge and evaluate those things about African-American males that they do well. And so I think part of the reason we see a lot of these statistics is because they are attractive in some way. But another part of the reason that we see these statistics is because they are real. So where these things are happening to our African-American males, I think that there are other ways that we can go about addressing some of these issues by looking at those African-American males who are doing well, who are successful, and gleaning from them those things that they are able to use to steer away from some of the things that you mentioned in opening.
B-Brown: And I appreciate you saying that, because we certainly do want to focus on what’s positive. And Know that Landon, in the work that you do, that is a big part of—or really all that what the Lost Generation Task Force is about, is trying to steer black and Latino males away from incarceration.
Adams: Correct. One of the things—again, our mission at the task force is to reduce the number of Black and Latino youth who are incarcerated. The challenging thing that we recognize is that there is not too much in the spectrum of those statistics, those issues, that don’t impact that. So we just can’t say, “Well, we need to keep them out of trouble.” We have to make sure they are educated, that they have good home situations, that the community is supportive of them. And so it is a wide variety of things that have to be sort of buttressed around them to make sure on all sides that they have support to do the things that they want to do, that they are interested in doing so they can have some hopes and dreams to be something when they grow up.
B-Brown: Right. Earl, as a youth pastor, I mean, I’m sure there are all kinds of issues that you may run across dealing with the youth at your church, Body of Christ. Do you find that the statistics that we mentioned in the intro are actually things that the young men that you work with are struggling with? And how do you deal with that? Especially as a minister when there are so many other things, you know, the spirit is really primarily what you’re focusing on.
Callair: Oh, absolutely. I believe in our society where we’ve grown up we’ve kind of created this society where the goal is to look for success. And how we gauge success kind of deems us where we are and how we aren’t. And even in our church and our kids, they buy into that same thing. “Okay, I’ve got to do this. I’ve got to make money. I’ve got to do all these things.” And then all of these cultural aspects that come in to that world—what is the best way to make money? And then you throw into we’re looking at some stats in reference to males saying they feel like the school is not for them, or their teacher in school is not for them. So they come in and they bring that in to the youth group and they understand. They have a whole different mind set. Say, “You know what? Yeah, school—everybody says I need it, but the teachers aren’t there for me. They’re just there to get their pay check.” So it creates this environment where they feel like, “Okay, I’m just going to school to fulfill somebody else’s dreams. Here is what I want to do.” And unfortunately for our males, we’ve been fortunate in that the males that are actually in our church and involved in our church haven’t been on a—on a whole—impacted to the level to where they are going down some other avenues. But some of the males that we effect through our after school program, through our summer camp program, we see some of the effects of those influences. And in many ways it is disheartening [ph], but it is through programs like our after school and summer camp and other programs that we’re able to provide that we are able to reach those and hopefully help deter or circum vent some of those factors that they are becoming involved with.
B-Brown: Alfiee, let me ask you this: in your experience would you say that young black males are their own worst enemy or are they truly victims of something that is external?
Nobel: I think it is a combination of factors. There are many things, as the pastor mentioned, that impact these males from, you know, the time that they are born. There are societal pressures, there are familiar pressures—there are many things that they have to struggle with, I think, that are unique to them as African-American males. That is not to say that other groups don’t struggle, but for African-American males, our history lends itself to African-American men having to deal with a lot of issues in different ways than other ethnic groups might have to.
In addition to the external pressures, I think that there are internal things that we as African-Americans don’t necessarily lean towards to help us navigate some of those issues. So since I work in the department of psychiatry—I don’t teach, I’m a clinical investigator, and what I do is clinical trials. So as an example, we don’t necessarily participate in large numbers in clinical trials. And clinical trials don’t necessarily have to be just pharmacologic in nature. We do behavioral also. So to make the point quickly, these are ways in which we—I won’t say hurt ourselves, but these are things that we do that hinder our ability to make progress in finding ways to help African-American males overcome some of their obstacles. So if for instance we were to participate in some of these trials—we were to volunteer to work in some of the after school programs, if we didn’t wait until our kids were at risk before we put them in the after school programs, I think that that would go a long way toward helping us, as the pastor said, circumvent some of the problems that we see.
B-Brown: And Landon, what would you add to that, if anything?
Adams: When I was in school, one of the things that we as black students would sometimes be faced with—you are sort of under the suspicion that you are there because of affirmative action—you couldn’t have been there—somebody didn’t pay for you to be there. And so one of the sort of resistance that you find black students will do is they don’t engage in helping services. And so where other students will be very comfortable getting tutoring, going to the career center and all those other things that are there and in place and being provided and paid for so that students can be successful, when you’re being told that you can’t be here unless you have help, you are more resistant to getting help, because that seems to be… “Well, if I go to the career center that means I can’t even get a job on my own.”
B-Brown:Right, and proving them right.
Adams: Exactly. And so that is one of the sort of slick, subtle ways that even the things that are in place to help us we sometimes resist because it goes back to—in our minds at times, to prove the stereotype that we can’t do it on our own.
B-Brown: Pastor, how do we deal with that—that—I don’t even know what it is called. A phenomenon really, because there are so many other things that we could talk about that we as black people in general often feel like, “Well, that’s not for us. We don’t do that. I don’t want to hear about that.” But how do you encourage a young person to take advantage of something that is there to help them and get over that hump of thinking, “I don’t want to prove anybody right who already thinks I can’t do it on my own.”
Callair: I think it starts with building relationships, and tight knit relationships with these individuals because what they have to have is someone they can trust. Because as you have so many people saying, “You can’t do,” or, “You shouldn’t be here,” to have someone you trust and know that is looking out for you that says, “Yes you can and yes you do deserve to be here.” I was very fortunate to have my mother and to have her with me and say—she was always instilling values in me, and always there to save me. There is nothing you can’t do that you put your mind to. And there is not an opportunity that is out there for anyone else that is not out there for you. But we start with building those relationships, and through the boys club I was able to build relationships with male mentors, and now I’m able to see, “Okay, here is a successful African-American. He looks like me. He talks like me, yet he is successful.” Now I see this and know that “Wow, that is attainable.” And then for him to engage in me and instill in me and actually take time with me, gives me now hope, don’t you see?”
Because a lot of the reasons why, in my very humble opinion, why so many of our African-American males and Latino males fall by the wayside is because they don’t see a future. And then when they look at it and they say, “There is nothing out there for me,” or, “Everything looks so disturbing.” Then you start saying, “Okay. I still haven’t decided where I’ve got to get mine.” Or, “Now I’m looking for other ways to get mine,” and those ways aren’t necessarily, “I can’t get it through school. I’m not going to get a decent job. In order for me to get mine, I’ve got to take yours or I’ve got to do something different.” And so we end up buying into this stereotype, so to speak, of what people think. And I think we do, in many ways, to answer the question earlier, we do—we are our worst enemy sometimes, because we get stuck in that mindset. But it is not just because of… We have to make a decision. Each person has to make a decision on their life. Now we’d be foolish to think that decision comes just when somebody sits down one day and says, “I’m going to go to jail.” No, it comes out of our environment, what we’ve come through and what we see as the opportunities for us. And when we don’t see those opportunities, then we have to make decisions based on, “Here is what I see as my gamut of choices.” Well, “I’ve got to sell drugs, because that is the way to get mine.”
B-Noble: Can I add something to that Natalie?
B-Brown: Sure.
B-Noble: I think one point I’d like to pick up on that the pastor mentioned is that it is important for us as service providers, helpers, clergy and the like, to take the time to find out from individuals what they need. So one project that I’m working on is called the ACOMA [ph] Project. And the ACOMA Project really does try to get at some of the things that the pastor mentioned. It is a research project. And so what we’re trying to do is gauge from individuals what are the things that you need to have in place to make it easier for you to go partake of these services, whether they are career services, so on and so forth. Because too often what we do is go in and say that we know what’s best for someone else. And that’s, I think, often what contributes to the resistance that people have.
B-Brown: Let me ask you a question, and I mean this with all sincerity, and I’m not at all trying to degrade anybody. But do—can young people in particular, always articulate exactly what they need?
B-Noble:Maybe not all of it, but they can give us a clue as to certain aspects that they need to have in place. Even a little kid. You know, we have little children, they tell you what they want. They make it very plain. Okay. They make it very plain, very often. So I think that there really are ways. Maybe it won’t be as articulate and sophisticated as it might be coming from an adult, but a young person can tell you, “Okay, If you want me to come to a meeting you need to have food.” You know, “If you want me to pay attention,” I happen to be a Hip Hop fan, I grew up on that—I’m part of that generation. Then, I won’t even try to name a popular rapper because I’ll get it wrong, but I need to see that person is a part of it. Why don’t we have something where we talk about using music videos as a catalyst for talking about misogyny and those kinds of things. So they can tell us what they want. We just have to be creative in terms of how we use our listening ears, as my daughter says.
B-Brown: That’s awesome. And Landon, I know that with the Lost Generation Taskforce, you guys are not just focusing on the youth that you’re trying to reach, but you understand that you’ve got to get to the families as well, the parents and whoever that extended network is. And why is that? Why is that so important?
Adams: Again, no issue is sort of—I think our community and our society is so structured/so specialized. You know, you do one thing: you do math, you do reading. You do sports, you do music. But when it comes to people’s lives, you can teach a kid how to read and he can be good academically, but if he goes home to an environment where that’s not valued, it is going to be undone. Or if he goes home and there is nothing to eat, he doesn’t know where he’s going to sleep. You know, I woke up this morning and my apartment is kind of drafty. And I thought, “Oh, it is cold out.” It is much colder out today than it has been. But if you’ve got somebody who doesn’t have heat, how are they going to think about going home to do their work or review the lesson that you learned and you taught them how to behave at home and to—to mediate their emotions and their anger. Those things don’t begin to matter with some of the things that our young people have to face in their real, everyday lives.
B-Brown: Earl, how do you deal with, and do you have young men or young people that come at the Body of Christ and are dealing with some of the things that Landon is talking about—may not have a good home life, don’t have certain basic needs bet. You know, how do you begin to minister to them to take care of those things so that you can get to the stuff that is really going to ensure their success?
Callair: You start by partnering with the family. I can’t effect any child just by dealing with only the child. When you come across those areas, where you’ve got a parent or a child that is in a situation where let’s say they go home and they have no heat, then you have to partner with a family and say, “How can we as a church family help them get the heat or get some of the things we need?” And you know, we can’t solve all the problems, but it is solving the problems that we can solve and coming beside them to say, “Okay, here is how we can help you get heat,” or, “Here is how we can help you find a place where it is more safe.” Or, “Here is a place where we can help you in our after school program if the parent is always working until the kid is coming home and they’ve got four or five brothers and sisters and they’re having to deal with all them.” Well, maybe we can bring them all into our after school program so that now they can come in to the after school program and have some time to do their homework where they have an hour or two to focus on those things that need to be accomplished in school or what have you. So they are able to be successful.
And you have to, and I think Landon said it great, is that you cannot look at a problem as just the problem. There are so many things around it, and you’ve got to deal with those things that are around it. I was introduced years ago to Maslow’s Hierarchy of Needs. And one of the things about that, that was so amazing to me…
B-Brown: Can you explain what that is?
Callair: Well, it just basically says that in order for someone to touch or reach or be able to reach someone, you’ve got to take care of some basic necessities. They have this hierarchy of what they need and one of those things is like safety and security/food. And so touching on that it’s like, okay, if I’ve got a child that goes home and everyday he’s worried about, “Am I going to eat tonight?” Or, “I’ve got no food.” But he’s also got a project or term paper they have to do. Well, the first thing they’re going to go home and do is figure out, “How are we going to eat.”
So if we can help him figure out how he’s going to eat, now he can use those resources to figuring out, “How am I going to do this term paper?” Until we get past the eating stage, the term paper is second or third on the list.
B-Brown: Right.
Callair: And that is the thing that w have to try to do as a community, as a church, as individuals, is help kids and help the families and partner with the families in meeting some of those needs. And the first thing we’ve got to do is go figure out what those needs are. And so what we do as a church is we try to get involved in the families to say, “I don’t just know your child’s name. I want to know your parents name. I want to know what you, your dynamics of your household.” And it is not to be nosey, it is so that I can help. If I can offer an opportunity I want to be able to help that, but I can’t offer anything that I don’t know about.
B-Brown: I want to ask you about therapy and counseling because that is one thing that I know in the black community in general is kind of taboo, but especially with black males, they are like, “That ain’t cool. You don’t go and talk about your feelings with anybody.” So I’m wondering if there is any benefit—you know, if black males could actually really benefit in a significant way from therapy, then how do we encourage the community to support them doing that and make it safe and good for them to do that?
B-Noble: Thank you for the question because that really does get at the heart of what I do for a living. So what we try to do is we try to understand, as I said earlier, from the families, from the communities, from clergy—because clergy people are typically the people the African-Americans will go to—I’m sure you know—will go to with their problems. So it is clergy, it is other family members, which in and of itself creates problems because you just sort of pass around the stress.
And so what we would like to do, and what we try to do in our work is really get a sense of where are people already going, and then how do we access the folks they are already talking to help encourage those folks and connect those individuals to partner with some of the more traditional forms of mental healthcare providers. So psychiatrists, psychologists, clinical social workers, licensed professional counselors, so on and so forth.
B-Brown: Yes.
Nobel: And the other thing that we have to do and I think is important for us to do is to get a sense of how do we function and provide counseling and therapy outside of the typical 45 to 50 minute sessions. So what we may have to do is take the boys out. I’m not saying that all black men like to play basketball, but a lot of young boys do. Take them out and play basketball. And as a part of the basketball playing session you start to talk about some of these things. Maybe it is a part of the drills. You know, you find a confined space where no one else can hear. So you can be creative.
And it is almost a subversive way of really getting them to open up and talk about their feelings, or I had the fine occasion to work with a group of young people in Durham where we flashed pictures of celebrities. Most of them were rappers. Some were actors and actresses, who were dealing with mental health problems. So we talked about Jessica Alba and her struggle with obsessive compulsive disorder. We talked about the rapper DMX and his struggle with bipolar disorder. And the stuff that came out of these children’s mouth—it was just amazing. “Yeah, well, I have an uncle and I think my uncle is bipolar.” Or, “I have a distant relative—a cousin who lives with us who I know they are an alcoholic.” So those are the ways, and more creative ways, which for people in my field can often be difficult to help them understand. You can’t do everything in an office with the old cliché of lying on the couch talking about feelings. So there are ways that we can do it. We just have to be willing to be open and creative.
B-Brown: That’s awesome. Yes Landon?
Adams: I think, Natalie, the other thing is those of us who advocate for counseling have to advocate for counseling and say, “I’ve been to counseling. I think it is a wonderful thing. This is how it helped me. This why I was reluctant. This is how I sort of acted when I first encountered counseling. This is what I say. These are some of the things I don’t say.” I think the honest thing is as much as we would want to advocate for counseling, we would not advocate for all counselors. And you can’t talk to everybody and you can’t tell everybody everything.
B-Brown: That’s true.
Adams: And sometimes it can also be just as Alfiee said, informal networks. So do you have a group of friends that is either an accountability group that you can tell anything to? That they can tell you anything to? And how do you develop those trusting relationships and learning how when information is shared with you, you don’t share with other people. And then when you share information you can be confident that it is not shared with other people.
B-Brown: I may be giving you the last word, but I want to know, just given this conversation, certainly the work that you, what is it that you as a provider, you know, as a service provider, as someone who cares about these young men needs to continue doing your work and doing it well?
Callair: Prayer. Always, prayer is good. But I think the biggest thing is we need people and energy and people like on the panel that are willing to say, “Here is what I do. Here is where we are. Let me offer this for you.” Be it, you know, therapy, support or taskforces or after school programs. It is places where we can say, “Well, we’re not…” Because we can’t provide everything for everybody as just one church.
However, but if we partner with a group over here and a group over here and a group over here. You know, the old adage, “It takes a village to raise a family.” Well, it truly does. But the village is not just the church. I think the church needs to be important. It is important, but I think we need to partner with other places and say, “Yes, I can counsel you for a couple of sessions, you can come in. But if you need more intensive, we’ve got 700 members and there are two staff pastors.” You know, “If you need something more than two sessions, here, let me send you to this person who we know and we trust to be and o a great job at counseling and helping your reach through.” Or, “Let me send you over to this group who I know they have a program that could help this person and this opportunity.”
It is just those resources that help us attack the problem from all fronts. I feel as the church we see them from all fronts and then we struggle to try to figure out and create ministry and opportunities. And many times, you know, when you are working with volunteers, we have great volunteers. But we can’t always provide the in-depth service that we need, but through other places we’re allowed to do that or able to do that. So if we have those resources in other people, that would be a tremendous help.
B-Brown: Real quick, Landon, what does the Triangle Lost Generation Task Force need? And I want you to speak about policy, because I know there are some things that you guys are working on that could really make a difference.
Adams: I think the general thing we tell folks is we need you to be an advocate in the work. We need you to be educated about how you can help a young person in your circle—in your network. Support young people—tell them that they can be whatever they want to be, and then give them the resources to do that. If you don’t have that, find a program that they can enroll in. And then when policies and legislation come up…
Because when we look at statistics, that is primarily where those statistics come from. I’m a believer that things don’t generally happen by happenstance. When we looked at over 60% of the prison population is African-American men, black men in this state, that didn’t happen over night by accident. And so we need people to be engaged in the political process, in policy, in legislation, in schools. If it is your child’s school, if it is your neighbor’s school, if it is a young person at your church’s school, be involved.
B-Brown: Thank you so much. I’d like to thank Doctor Alfiee M. Breland-Nobel, Landon Adams and Minister Earl Callair for coming out and sharing their views. And if you’d like to get in touch with our guests or obtain a copy or transcript of tonight’s show, visit us online at unctv.org/bif, and when you visit, be sure to give us your comments and program suggestions. You can also call us on the BIF line at 919-549-7167. For Black Issues Forum I’m Natalie Bullock-Brown reminding you to be encouraged, no matter what. Have a good one.
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