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Episode #2219
Are College Students Losing Their Minds?
Brown: A recent study by the American Psychiatric Association says that nearly half of all college students report feeling so depressed they have trouble functioning. What sort of stressors are college kids facing that seem to be causing them so much mental turmoil? We’ll take a deeper look into mental health and the college experience next on Black Issues Forum.
Brown: Good evening everyone and welcome to Black Issues Forum. I am Mitchell Lewis.
Voiceover: Quality public television is made possible through the financial contributions of viewers like you who invite you to join them in supporting UNC-TV.
Brown: Good afternoon everyone and welcome to Black Issues Forum. I am Natalie Bullock Brown. When most people think about the college experience they think about students living on their own, taking classes that will prepare them for careers in the real world, partying and preparing for adulthood. But what many students may actually be experiencing is not only tragic but far too common. The website, HealthMinds.org reports that over 60% of the students polled last school year felt more than once that things were hopeless. At least 10% of those same students admitted to having seriously considered suicide. And 15% were found to be clinically depressed. Why are the promised—why is the promise and excitement of the college years being increasingly replaced by sadness and despair? We have with a panel of experts to help us explore this question and we are glad to have them here. Introducing Dr. Savitri Dixon-Saxon, Faculty Chair of the Mental Health Counseling Program at Walden University. We also have with us Dr. Tammy Moore, a licensed psychologist practicing with Cary Behavioral Healthcare. And last but not least we are grateful to have with us Brandon Byrd, a third year student at St. Augustine’s College who is majoring in education. Welcome to Black Issues Forum.
Let’s start off just by maybe just getting a sense of what is actually going on on college campuses especially for black students. What are students experiencing and let’s start with you, Dr. Moore.
Moore: Well, from my experience recently, Brandon and I attended the National HBCU, historically black colleges and universities, mental health conference in Washington, DC. At this conference all 105 HBCUs were present with representatives of mental health staff and faculty as well as student representatives. And basically what we’re trying to do is do a lot of psycho-education and outreach to African American college students, try to dispel some of the myths about seeking help. But basically I think what we see is college campuses are a microcosm of society so out students are coming in with higher levels of stress, higher levels of anxiety and depression. And just not having really good coping strategies. So I think for mental health professionals, what we are trying to do is teach students how to cope and also to get the services that they need to deal with their issues.
Brown: Dr. Dixon-Saxon, is there something about the African American community that causes us to feel like there is something wrong with seeking help and why are college students in particular having a hard time reaching out for what they need?
Dixon-Saxon: Well, I do think that there is a mystery about what actually takes place in counseling and what it means to African American people to get help. For many people it feels like an admission that you don’t have control in your own life. And for many people they just don’t know what to expect from counseling. Many of us grow up in a culture of you keep family business in the house. And you don’t share that with other people. So some people are very reluctant to go to a counseling center or ask for support because they don’t really know what to expect when they get there. They are not aware that this is a confidential environment. They suspect that counseling is some kind of mind manipulation, wizardry or sooth saying. And they don’t really recognize that when you go to see a counselor what you are getting is the opportunity to interact with someone who will have an unconditional positive regard about you. Separate your behaviors and attitudes from who you really are as an individual. But most importantly counselors are there to help the individual create his or her own road map to productivity and wellness. And to explore previous behaviors and attitudes that may not have worked so well in the past. And create a list of alternative behaviors and attitudes that will lead to wellness and productivity.
Brown: Thank you. Brandon, let me ask you, why did you feel comfortable and maybe I shouldn’t assume that you did but what was it within you that made you feel like this is what I need to do and why did you seek counseling?
Byrd: Well, in the beginning it wasn’t that I was seeking counseling. I went over to the CAT center for some information regarding adoption, a daughter adoption. And Dr. Moore was so, you know, warm and comforting to me and she invited me to, you know, see what was going on. And it just took off from there and before I knew it it was the end of the school year and I had been to see her every week. So I really didn’t think anything of it. She—I didn’t look at her like as the psychologist, the counselor. I looked at her as a friend that I could go to and that she could help me with things that maybe I didn’t want or I didn’t feel comfortable going to other people with.
Brown: Well, I am glad that you met her and you were able to have that relationship develop. But, Dr. Moore, how—it seems like that was kind of chance. How often does it happen that a college student actually feels like okay, this person does care, as Dr. Dixon-Saxon was saying, that this person is not going to judge me, they care about me, they are going to be my friend. You know, how do you even begin to bridge that sort of—or bridge that gap between what a college student things and what the reality might actually be for counseling?
Moore: Yes, I think for me initially when I came to St. Augustine’s College four years ago I was placed in the health center and the student health center and the students would come in sometimes to see the nurse for headaches and stomachaches or different things. And once the nurse did what she did, she would say, “You know, it sounds like, I’ve checked everything, your vitals are fine. Maybe there is something else going on and we have a psychologist here that you could talk to.” So initially it was that way of getting them in and they would come in and once they started they said, “Wow, this is not that bad and I don’t feel like I have a severe mental health problem. I am just trying to adjust and adapt with this whole transition to college.” And as Brandon was saying, you know, he came in to just talk about financial aid issues, being an out of state student and how do I deal with the financial difficulties. And quite often it happens that way. I will go out and speak with freshman students, first year students, and talk about adjusting to college. And just some of the normal developmental things like homesickness, you know, if you have a relationship at home, if your high school didn’t prepare you well. All of that are normal developmental issues that if we can take the stigma of—I think in the African American community we have a lot of non-verbals and I always say this little thing keeps a lot of people from getting help because they don’t want to have that perceived, you know, problem. But once we can get them in and just have a conversation and start to talk about what’s going on, I think the comfort level comes with that.
Brown: I want to talk about the difference between what college students are experiencing now and what may be their parents, grandparents, even great-grandparent’s experienced some years ago. But before we get there I just want to understand because I think it’s important, what happens to a college student, to a student who does not have the resources. Doesn’t have someone to reach out to deal with whatever they are dealing with. What is the potential, Dr. Dixon-Saxon, please?
Dixon-Saxon: Well, I’m sure whatever I say is not going to be all inclusive but I can just say that my experiences demonstrated this that students who don’t have the resources have a variety—most—a lot of them have a variety of what we call suboptimal coping strategies. Things that just don’t work for them. They do things, you know, they can isolate, they can shut down, decide not to participate in the system, not going to class, not studying. Many students who experience stress and don’t have the resources to cope with it do things like gamble, drink or use alcohol, smoke cigarettes, play too many video games, spend too much time on internet chat rooms, spend too much—participate in promiscuous activities, a variety of things.
Brown: And that’s all they are trying to deal with their reality and not really knowing how to?
Dixon-Saxon: Yes, there are so many of them. You know, a lot of—I mean, we know that a lot of people try, you know, the things among that list and it’s not indicative there is any pathology or any real problem. But when you see people who are doing these things excessively, things that, you know, crying a lot or expressing any kind of emotionality that is outside of the norm in a pervasive way it’s a red flag. Something is going on with this person. You know, I can remember noticing students whose appearance just radically changed. The complexion of their skin, the way they were unkempt. Or maybe their style of dress changed radically. And I knew that these were cues that, you know, something is going on. Something is different for this person. And these are the indicators. Now we have to find out what is causing the problem.
Brown: Brandon, how did your talks with Dr. Moore help you? You know, you said before you knew it, the year was up. So what kept you coming back? What was going on?
Byrd: Just the fact that I knew by talking to me Dr. Moore—I knew Dr. Moore talking to me, she didn’t really have anything to gain per se. Like I could go the president’s office because I was a work-study student there but they just didn’t want me to transfer because, you know, a lot of students they get overwhelmed and they want to transfer or they just don’t want to be there anymore. Or they just don’t come back to school at all. But me going to Dr. Moore, she didn’t basically have anything to gain. She was just doing her job but at the same time I could tell that she cared deeply about not just me but all the students that come there and their well-being because if Dr. Moore hadn’t heard from you during the week she would always reach out or have Ms. Tyler [ph] her secretary reach out and get back to her on what was going on. So it just made me feel a lot more comfortable. You know, I was very overwhelmed when I came here from Seattle, Washington. And I know if I would have had Dr. Moore to talk to last year if I would have known about the CAT system and then inquired about it that I would have had way better year outside of the classroom because I had an excellent year inside of the classroom. But it was just on campus and me getting to know people and letting people get to know me. I didn’t get that. I didn’t get that—I didn’t really want to open up until I just started talking to Dr. Moore.
Brown: So Dr. Moore provided the moral support that you needed to make you feel welcome and able to kind of go out and meet other students.
Byrd: Yes.
Brown: Dr. Moore, let’s talk about what is the difference between what students are facing now and what parents, grandparents, great-grandparents, maybe dealt with on their college campuses especially in terms of racism, the stressors that might have occurred?
Moore: Well, specifically I am thinking about with St Augustine’s College, a large majority of our students are first generation college. A lot of our students come from inner city communities and southeast Washington, DC, Camden, New Jersey. And they are first generation college students so they don’t have the resources. Their family’s don’t have the resources to say, “Here is what to expect when you attend college.” I think today what I see with a lot of our students and the thing that I love about the school is that we are probably the only HBCU that has more African American males then females. And so that makes us really unique. But one of the things that I love about working with these students is that these students come from these communities and they have a real desire for change. And they know that their communities, they know what’s there. You know, I’ve seen students who have struggled. I remember a student who was struggling with being in college because his family, his mother and siblings were in a homeless shelter in Washington, DC. And the guilt that he felt about being in college, having a meal, having the dorms. And he would come in and he would say, “Dr. Moore, I feel so horrible about being here.” But I would try to, again, encourage the student into saying, you know, if you think about it, the more you learn the more you will earn, the better you will be able to help your family and this is what they want you to do. So I think one of the major stressors that I see probably number one for our students is financial difficulties. The financial federal loans have been cut drastically. The Pell grant amounts have been decreased. The college funding sources have been cut down. So we have students coming from out of state. It’s a wonderful environment for them to succeed because they are small classrooms, they get individual attention, I am not unique to St. Aug’s. I think Brandon can attest to a lot of faculty members doing the same things. I have had faculty members walk students over to the counseling center and say, “Something’s wrong with this student. Can you talk to him?” So it’s a wonderful environment for them to learn and to thrive and to achieve their goals. But the financial stressors are tremendous. And with that it trickles down to just not being able to concentrate, difficulties with social interactions. And as Dr. Dixon-Saxon said isolating themselves, experiencing anxiety and worry. What am I going to do when the dorms close? Where am I going to go? What am I going to do if the cafeteria closes. Those types of daily life core stressors I see more so with our African American first generation college students. So I tell them my story. I tell them I am first generation college. Went to an HBCU, Xavier University in Louisiana. And there were always people there to support me and my family supported me morally and spiritually. Financially they couldn’t support but we had more financial resources from the government available back in the ’80s than students have now.
Brown: Dr. Dixon-Saxon, so given what Dr. Moore has said, can you talk about especially since this is something that you have looked at particularly the paradigms of struggle and oppression and just the whole issue of racism, how that plays out now versus how it may have played out for our forefathers.
Saxon-Dixon: I spent a lot of time on a predominantly white campuses and what comes to mind when you ask that question is if the devil you know is a lot better than the devil you don’t know. I say that to say that some of our students who come on campus are ill-prepared to deal with racism, individual or institutional racism. And so what they experience is racism related stress. And racism related stress is more or less anytime you interact with racism in the environment and you don’t have the resources and support to be able to combat that. Or manipulate things in your favor. And being able to manipulate systems, having the skills to manipulate systems is very, very important. But when students come on campuses and they perceive racist interactions with people, and one, it’s the first time they have ever done that, or they are not validated for the way they have perceived or described the experience, that causes stress. We have a lot of students who come on campuses after being in very integrated environments and having a diverse group of friends. And they have not been prepared for one, identifying racism or knowing how to deal with it. And when they interact with it, a lot of them shut down. A lot of students who come from environments where families have prepared them don’t have the same kind of struggle. They already have a system in their minds or tools and skills about how I deal with this, how do I deal with the professor who has a low expectations of me academically? How do I deal with people saying that they don’t want me in their group for statics or statistics for that matter because they don’t expect me to have anything to contribute. These students are skilled and they know, okay, somebody has already prepared me for this. Or somebody has already told me this is what you are going to have to do to combat that. But for those who have never had those challenges it is extremely difficult for them to adjust.
Brown: I just want to follow up on that. What sort of advice could you offer to especially probably mostly—most of our viewers right now are not necessarily college students but maybe their parents, their grandparents, what can family members do to encourage and sort of prepare kids for what they are going to be up against?
Dixon-Saxon: My response is how much time do you have? But I think this is the thing. I think a lot of African American parents have really tried to give their kids a lot, their children a lot, a lot of advantages, exposure to cultural things. But many of us are very reluctant to talk about real issues with our children, real things that they will experience. And many of us want to have the attitude that we’ve offered them the best, so they will be prepared to compete in every arena without fully acknowledging and accepting that there is still pervasive racism in our society and they need to be able to deal with those things. So the thing that I say to parents is stay involved with your child’s life. You send a person who you were, you know, just last week, you were directing him or her about how to sort laundry and you assisted him or her about filling out this college application and then that person goes to college and you say, “Okay, you’re on your own.” No, not so. These are individual who still need a lot of support and guidance as they merge from or transition from late adolescence to young adulthood. The other thing I tell students and I would tell parents, send your kids with several framed pictures of you and dad—you know, mom and dad and grandparents and little cousin whomever so that this child is reminded, this is your support system. Teach your children where to go when they need to be revived. They need to be confident and you may or may not be available. I am a very spiritual person so I tell all the students I teach know where to go when you need to go to the rock. Give your children a foundation that they know, okay, if all—you know, this is where I go when I need to be revived, when I need to be rejuvenated, when I need to meditate and think about what it is, what my purpose is in life. Encourage your children to surround themselves with people who have goals that are similar to their own. If a person is focused, is a person is goal directed, that is the person I want my child to be friends with.
Brown: Let me cut in real quick and, Brandon, I am going to give you the last word. We’re running out of time and I wanted to ask Dr. Moore, Dr. Dixon-Saxon just said to make sure that your kids have the resources, that they surround themselves with the resources they need. Is it easier for African American females to do that as opposed to African American males?
Moore: Absolutely. All of the research shows that—I mean, particularly for now, I am very alarmed and there is a lot of research talking about African American males and just the rate of suicide. This is something that traditionally in the black community was almost, you know, it was taboo. We didn’t hear of it. But it is on the increase. In fact, we have one of the fastest growth rates for suicide in African American males between the ages of about 16 and 22. So the stigma, particularly for African American men, because of the way we are socialized. I did a talk last semester, we had a suicide on campus, a former—not on campus but a former football coach who was well-known in the community, Coach Andre Waters, who played for the Philadelphia Eagles committed suicide. And what I did was to reach out to the football team and say to the guys, “Hey, you know, this has nothing to do with your manhood as far as getting help. You know, if you need to talk to someone, there is nothing wrong with that. In fact, it is a positive thing to seek help.” So I do think the—it’s harder for men or men are less likely to go into get help.
Brown: So, Brandon, let me give you the last word. I would just really be interested to hear what would you say to your fellow male students at St. Aug or wherever they may be based on your experiences?
Byrd: Like Dr. Moore said, getting help is a positive thing. It really is. There is no better feeling than to know—to me there is no better feeling as a male to know that I can go to anybody that I feel comfortable with and get encouragement that I need or to have somebody who is just there to listen and that’s what Dr. Moore did for me and did for St. Augustine’s College. It’s harder, it’s very hard for males because, you know, you could come back to the room and your roommate might be like, “Where was you at?” And you would be like, “Oh, I was at the CAT center.” And he is like, “What? Are you crazy? You going out of your mind?” You not getting caught in no matrix, are you? All I can say to my fellow male students is like just get help.
Brown: Great. Thank you so much to all of you. I would like to thank Dr. Dixon-Saxon, Dr. Moore and Mr. Byrd for taking the time to share their expertise and stories with us today. And if you would like to learn more about the work of our guests or obtain a transcript, please visit the Black Issues Forum website at www.UNCTV.org/BIF. We would also like to hear your feedback and suggestions and so send us an email or you can call the BIFline at 919-549-7167. Be sure you meet us back here each Sunday afternoon at 4:30. For Black Issues Forum, I am Natalie Bullock Brown reminding you to be encouraged no matter what. Have a good one.
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