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Episode #2306
Publishing from the Ground Up
Q: The publishing industry can be a bit intimidating, especially for writers trying to get that first piece of work in print. We’ll talk with two African American women in the publishing field, an author and an editor, for their advice on how to get started in the right direction. Next on Black Issues Forum.
VO: Quality public television is made possible through the financial contributions of viewers like you who invite you to join them in supporting UNC-TV.
[INTRO MUSIC]
Lewis: Hello, everyone and welcome to Black Issues Forum; I’m Mitchell Lewis. The artform of writing in the black culture goes as far back as black civilization itself. Now that we are in the era of ever-evolving technology, what does it take to get into the publishing, what does it take to get into the publishing industry? On this edition of Black Issues Forum we will talk with two women who have definitely made their mark in the publishing field, and they will give us their views on how the current and next generation of African American writers can get started in publishing from the ground up.
Our first guest is Peggy Tatum, editor of The Connection Place, or TCP magazine, a Christian publication in Raleigh that focuses on positive African American achievements. And we have Jacqueline Thomas, an award-winning, best-selling Christian fiction author with 30 titles in print. Ladies, both of you, welcome to Black Issues Forum. Peggy, I’ll start off with you. Give us some background about TCP magazine and talk about your experiences in publishing that led you to become the editor of this magazine.
Tatum: First you’ve got to understand I’m basically a novice. TCP is something that is a vision that God gave me to do, and once he gave me the vision I just started on it, and I started telling people about what I wanted to do, and they were just so excited about it, and they wanted to be a part of it. And them being a part of it is what’s made it a success.
Lewis:You say you’re a novice, so how long have you been in publication?
Tatum: Well, with TCP this is the fourth year, but before that I did some writing for another publication, just the gospel section of it, so I was just doing it to help someone else, and I enjoyed what I was doing, but then when God came along and told me to do this, I just stepped out on faith and did it.
Lewis: So Jacqueline, you started off actually writing romance novels, and then you transitioned to Christian inspirational fiction. How did you get your start, and what did you go through to get that first book published?
Thomas: Okay, for me, I started writing as a child, wrote my first novel when I was 16 when I killed my first boyfriend in the story [LAUGHS]. When I was 35 I decided I was tired of corporate America and really just always had this passion for writing, so I wanted to see if I could actually write a book and get it published, and I published my first book 15 months later. I sold it to a publisher, Kensington Publisher, which had an African American romance imprint, and I chose romance because I grew up reading my mom’s romance novels.
Lewis: Let’s go back to killing the boyfriend.
[LAUGHTER]
Lewis: Now, how did that equate to romance?
Thomas: [LAUGHS] I was 16 and it was my first boyfriend and he dumped me for my best friend, and so I was very shy as a child, and writing had always been my outlet, so naturally I went home and wrote this story and I just killed him in my story; he didn’t deserve to live, he’d hurt me. But once I got over my quest for revenge, I found that I really enjoyed writing, and it was just all I could imagine myself doing.
Lewis: So a kinder, gentler type of writing now.
Thomas: Well, I’ve been known to kill a few characters in my books, but all in love.
Lewis: Well, we’ll get to that in just a moment. Peggy, especially being the editor of a magazine, what type of people do you surround yourself with to sort of ensure that the magazine goes off or is published the way it should be?
Tatum: Well, the most important thing I surround myself with is prayer, and I have prayer partners in Virginia that continually cover the magazine in prayer. I also have people who are very knowledgeable in what they’re doing as far as the layout and design, and if you’ve seen the magazine you’d see that it’s got a snazzy look to it. I have a WizPro Creative Services, Denver Wright, is the designer for the magazine and I sort of give him creative control, and I also have a photographer, Rick Crank, who’s been by my side from the first four years that I’ve been there, and he’s supported me quite a bit, so I surround myself with people that understand the vision that I have, they understand what I’m trying to accomplish, and even when it comes to printing, I’ve had someone to just hold my hand and walk me through the process when I first started, because I really didn’t know what I was doing, to be truthful.
Lewis:You said you were a novice—what was it like when you felt that you had to go into the publishing business, what was going through your mind at that point?
Tatum: Oh, I was just so excited. I don’t know if you’ve ever had a vision to do anything or not, a divine vision, but I was just so excited and I just started doing everything that I thought that I should have done. I started with a business name that God had given me earlier that I had just sort of tossed to the side, I came back with it and then I named the magazine based upon that. God had given me the name The Connection Place to use for a business earlier that I tossed aside, but then I came back, started the company, named the magazine TCP magazine, so we have a company called The Connection Place, which is a small business resource center, and the magazine is supposed to be the outlet to have small businesses get exposure, businesses and musicians and music and ministries, so we’ve been doing well just surrounding ourselves with people we can trust.
Lewis: And Jacqueline, besides killing off the boyfriend, what were some of the challenges you faced starting off as a writer? And especially, say, as an African American woman, were there any specific challenges you had to face?
Thomas:I’d have to say no. I decided, when I decided to try my hand at getting a manuscript published, Arrabas [ph], which was the African American imprint, that was created by Kensington Publishing, had already been established, and basically they already had authors in-house, so I was able to get in on the ground floor very early on; however, they were hungry, they were looking for African American writers. So when I decided to answer this call to write, I think it was just God’s timing, because it just went very smoothly.
Lewis: As far as your first step in publishing or going towards writing your story, what was it like taking that first step?
Thomas: Scary.
Lewis: How come?
Thomas: I knew that I’d been called to write, but I think as with other writers, you have that fear of whether you’re not good enough; I mean, yes, I want to tell this story. I believe I can write, but will readers feel the same way? Will they pick up my book, will they enjoy, will they love it, or will they toss it against the wall and want their money back? So I think that’s the general fear that we all face is that we love our baby, will somebody else love our baby?
Lewis: And Peggy, of course, when you look at African American magazines such as Jet, Ebony, Black Enterprise, when you decided to take that step to start your own magazine, was there that intimidation factor of sorts?
Tatum: I don’t think I had sense in the beginning to be intimidated. Further on down the road, yes, but initially no, because like I said, when you just get that vision, you get excited and started doing something, you do it without doing a whole lot of thinking about some things.
Lewis: I’ve got a question for both of you, and I’ll start off with you, Jacqueline. Since you’ve been involved in writing, how has the industry itself, has it changed that much for you, has technology played a major role?
Thomas: It’s changed in terms of genre. When I started writing, like I said, there was African American romance, there wasn’t Christian fiction, which is what I write now. I was actually one of the first authors to actually write Christian fiction for the African American community. So it is now one of the fasting growing genres in the industry. There is now the e-book and the audio book, and I’m not trying to date myself [LAUGHS] but when I started they weren’t as popular as they are now, so I see changes in the industry. There is no urban fiction, which wasn’t there before, the YA, young adult, is now the fastest growing genre out there. People are hungry, teens are hungry, they’re reading more than they did in the past, or as I’d like to say, they were actually reading more adult fiction, but now there are books that really speak to their issues and their relationships and so we’re seeing a growth spurt with young adults, and people of Raleigh are interested in Christian faith, faith-based books and magazines.
Lewis: And Peggy I’ll ask you the same question about technology. Although the company is about four years old, has there been a change for you as far as technology is concerned?
Tatum: Yes, you know, with technology you’ve got something different every day. You get the emails in, somebody’s come up with something than what it was before. Four years ago there weren’t as many e-magazines. I know you were talking about e-books as they are now, it’s just so easy to come up with a product and just put it out on the internet as an e-magazine versus just having a print publication so they’re popping up all over the place now.
Lewis: And both of you, you’re especially talking about e-books and going online. Just how important is it, especially when you’re trying to promote what you’re doing, how important is having a website?
Tatum: Oh, you’ve got to have a website. I think people judge you now based on whether or not you have one. If you don’t have one you don’t have credibility, I don’t think, but in addition to the websites, there are so many other portals out there that people are using like MySpace and other networking places, so you can get your MySpace account and not pay anything versus a website having to pay something every month, and you can just get your own community out there with the other networking portals and do your own advertising there.
Lewis: Jackie, when you started preparing to write a book, what are some of the factors that you consider? What do you consider some of the, let’s say, “it” factors in developing your characters and making sure this will be a book that someone would read?
Thomas:Well, for me, the first thing I do is go into prayer. And even when I was writing romance, prayer was very important to have that time with God, because I write for him, so I would really go into prayer, and I would pray about the story, I would pray about the characters, because for me I’m a very visual person and I have to see them in like a movie, my book has to happen like a movie, and that’s the way that I write. And so for me the first thing is to get a visual of the characters, to really get to know them, do a complete character bio. I also do a complete outline before I sit down to write. I do any research that’s required. If I’m doing a book set in Africa, if I’m doing a book about a Navy SEAL, I need to do research because I’ve never done these things, so I do all of that. I actually have a notebook where I keep my information. As I get older I find my memory retention is not what it used to be, so I write everything down, but I do all of this before I actually sit down to write, so when I write I can write without stopping.
Lewis:On average, how long does it take you to complete a book?
Thomas: For a teen novel it takes me three months with research. For a women’s fiction novel it can take me six to eight months, for the most part, but I write 25 pages a day, Monday through Friday.
Lewis: Peggy, of course being an editor of a publication, it somewhat compares to people watching folks on television, they’ll look at something you do and you too, Jacqueline, they’ll say, “Oh, that’s easy, I can handle that.” What does it take to be an editor of a publication? And you touched earlier on the support system that you have in place to make sure the publication goes forth, but what does it really take to maintain say your sanity as an editor?
Tatum:This is Peggy’s definition, okay?
[LAUGHTER]
Tatum: Being an editor you’ve got to know when to say no and when to say yes. You’ve got to make sure that what you’re putting out there is going to be interesting to someone else, even if it’s something that’s by your friend and they want you to publish something about them, if it’s not interesting to you it won’t be interesting to anyone else. And you’ve got to make sure your skills are up as far as proofreading is concerned. I’ve seen a number of magazines that are put out with mistakes all over the places as far as spelling and grammar, so you’ve got to make sure you’re tight in what you do.
Lewis: And Jacqueline, once again some people feel like, “I can write, I can do this,” what do you think they should be focusing on to be a good writer?
Thomas: A good writer gives themselves permission to write it wrong, and when I say that, we can get caught up on a lot of the grammar, just really wanting to write that perfect story the first time. Writing, a lot of it, is rewriting and rewriting, and as you said, editing is very important, so for me, for a novice writer, get the story out, because the hardest thing is to actually write that story from beginning to end. So I say, write it wrong, but get that story on paper because you can always go back and fix it and make it pretty, and so just writing—and I think you also have to be a good reader. I know there are writers who say they don’t like to read; I can’t imagine, reading, I love. I used to read the encyclopedia, so I just love to read, and I think that helps me with being a writer.
Lewis: A question to the both of you: for folks who are just starting out in this field, what do you see as some of the pitfalls, because I believe the both of you tend to mentor folks who are coming in? What do you see as some of the pitfalls or some of the mistakes that folks make, say, initially going into the publishing field? Peggy?
Tatum: Well, one of the things is just looking at something that someone else is doing and thinking that you can do it too, thinking that it’s easy. It’s got to be something that you really want to do. You’ve got to make a commitment if you’re going to do something, make sure you stick with it and make sure like I said earlier, that it’s a good quality product. There are so many different ways that you can publish a magazine and it can be done on a basic level or it can be done on a high end level, they can be done in different sizes, or you can come out much cheaper that will fill a budget, or it can be as much money as you want to spend, so it’s got to be something that you really want to do and you’re not looking at something else that somebody else is doing and say, “I can do that.”
Lewis: Jacqueline, any pitfalls that you noticed with say new writers?
Thomas: I think you really have to have a passion for what it is you write. A lot of times writers fall into, “Well, Christian fiction is hot so I’m going to write Christian fiction,” or “Romance is hot, I’m going to write romance,” and they may hate romance. Well, if you hate romance it’s going to show in your writing. If you have no relationship with God, that’s also going to show in your writing, if you’re trying to write a faith-based book. So I really think you have to have passion for what it is you write. You have to believe in your story, even if you see nothing on the market like it, you still have to believe this is the story that I’m supposed to tell; this is the story of my heart, and you have to trust that, and you can’t quit. Rejection letters are painful; I don’t like them, but the only way you’re going to get published is if you keep writing, and what I tell writers is that writers writer; they don’t talk about writing, they don’t just say, “I want to be a writer.” Writers write. You have to put pen to paper, and even on those days where you feel like there is no idea coming, you still write, even if you sit there and write a conversation between the pen and the piece of paper, but you’re writing something.
Lewis: Peggy, you touched on something earlier, financing. How important is financing in staying solvent in the publishing industry?
Tatum: Oh, it’s definitely very important because if you don’t have the financing you can’t stay there in publishing, you either need some angel investors or you’ve got to have some banking from a bank or something like that, or you’ve got to have that income stream that’s coming in, either through advertising or through some other type of income, so that’s basic. But, now think about this, we talk about on the internet that that’s the cheapest way you can go, because once you get on there you publish something, especially if you’re doing things yourself, you’re talented enough to come up with a magazine on your own and post it on the internet the cost is minimal. But when it goes to print, that’s when they get you.
Lewis: And Jacqueline, especially when somebody is thinking about writing a book, they have the vision of, “Okay, I’m going to get this enormous advance to get this book written,” is that normally the case?
Thomas: No, no, it’s definitely not the case. A brand-new author in today’s industry with a first-time book can look at an advance between $1,000, and maybe $10 or 15,000, and that’s based on the strength of the book and how many copies the publishers believe the book will sell. Advances are not what they used to be, so if this is your first time out you may or not make a bestseller list, you probably won’t make the New York Times, and the reason is because you won’t have enough copies to make the New York Times. Now there are books that they firmly believe in and they can push. I believe to have the publisher behind you makes a big difference, but realistically, don’t quit your day job.
Lewis: Let’s talk about some of your work. Two of your most recent works, Redemption and Divine Secrets. Briefly gives us a little background on those stories and how you went about developing characters.
Thomas: Well, Redemption, with writing Christian fiction, God just really put in my spirit to keep my books biblically and scripturally sound, and so he just laid it on my heart to take stories from the bible and bring them into modern day. So Redemption is the modern-day version of Hosea’s story. In Hosea, God tells him to marry a prostitute, and so I thought that was just one of the greatest love stories in the bible, because even though she was unfaithful and even though she left, God told him to go and get his wife and bring her home, and I’m thinking, “Wow, that’s a great man.” And once I posed that question and situation to my husband, he was like, “Not a chance.” [LAUGHS] So I just thought it was a very interesting concept, and what I did, I actually set it in Hollywood, and I had a mega-pastor, so think T.D. Jakes being married to Halle Berry, and put them together, and just have her fall into the path of drugs and how God just restored their marriage.
Lewis: And Peggy, of course, in your magazine, you interview a lot of celebrities. What does it take to go and get those interviews to get those people to talk to you?
Tatum: Well, a lot of them are looking for exposure anyway, so if you ring that number and they’ve got something that’s going on, like a new book or something like that, you would definitely talk to me because you would want exposure, so sometimes it’s just a phone call. Sometimes it may be going through another source to get it, but on the other hand, my name is out there; it’s on the national database, and I get lots of calls in to the office that people want exposure, and they let me know when their books come out, when events are going on, but I’ve had the opportunity to interview some of the most prominent pastors in the country, and on those occasions it’s not anything that I did, it was people that came after me, so I’ve had the chance to do the T.D. Jakes and the Bishop Paul Morton, and pastors like that.
Lewis: So that means integrity means a lot in order to make sure your magazine is successful?
Tatum: Right, and because I’ve been out there for a little while, they know, okay, Peggy Tatum, they associate it with the magazine. And I want to mention too that the magazine has been nominated a couple times for Print Media of the Year by the Gospel Music Workshop of America. Haven’t quite made it yet, but we’ve been nominated, which means they’re looking at us.
Lewis: Let’s quickly talk about some of your current projects or future projects. Jacqueline, Divine Secrets, what is that book about?
Thomas: That’s my young adult novel, and it features a character, Divine, and she’s a Hollywood princess who has been transplanted out of LA to a small town in Georgia called Temple, and just her life and her experiences. Well, in this particular book it deals with teen domestic violence, which is on the rise, and it’s a cause that I’m very, very passionate about and so with the teen books I want to entertain them, I want to educate them, but I also want to minister to them.
Lewis:And Peggy, what new projects you may be exploring at the magazine?
Tatum: We’re excited about our next year. We’re coming up on our fifth year and we’re going to do a fifth-year anniversary cruise. It’s in the planning stages; I’ve got a meeting after this to discuss it, and we want to network with other constituents and groups to just come together because the name of the company is the connection place, and we would like to bring different groups together so we can just go on a cruise and we can cross network our businesses.
Lewis: How important is that networking?
Tatum: Oh, it’s so important; you can’t live without it. You’ve got to do it. And not only just in what you’re doing, like in the gospel industry, you’ve got to go out into other networks. Like right now I’m working with the city of Raleigh, we’re doing things with Artsplosure and First Night in Raleigh, so we are getting gospel events that are sponsored through those venues.
Lewis: We’re coming to about a minute left in our program, and I’d like to ask both of you, and I’ll start off with you, Jacqueline, what advice would you have for someone who wants to be a budding writer?
Thomas: To read books on the craft of writing, take writing workshops, really study the craft but write. The most important thing is writers write, and give yourself permission to write it wrong.
Lewis: And Peggy, the efforts of being an editor sometimes can be a headache, but tell me, what can people do to prepare themselves? It seems like an editor is sort of another level in being a writer. So what advice would you have for these folks?
Tatum: Well, if it’s something you really want to do, I think you need to find a good mentor and do as much research as you can. Find examples of magazines that you would like to have your magazine like and just plan, plan, plan. take some courses, work with ___ as far as business is concerned, if you want to set up a business, and just go for it. I try to tell people to go ahead and accomplish your visions and dreams now, don’t wait until you get into your rocking chair and look back on your life and say, “I wish I had.”
Lewis: Ladies, we thank you so much for being here on Black Issues Forum. Once again I’d like to thank Peggy Tatum and Jacqueline Thomas for joining us. If you would like to get in touch with our guests or obtain a copy or transcript of tonight’s show, visit us online at unctv.org/BIF. When you visit be sure to give us your comments and program suggestions, or call us on the BIF line at 919-549-7167. For Black Issues Forum, I am Mitchell Lewis. Thank you for spending your time with us.
VO: Quality public television is made possible through the financial contributions of viewers like you who invite you to join them in supporting UNC-TV.
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