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Episode #2318
Gangs No More
Brown: In 2007, the News and Observer reported that there are over 1000 documented gang members in Durham, North Carolina. From state statistics, that number, up more than 300 members since 2006, seems to reflect a growing trend across the state. Yet there are those who, having experienced gang life firsthand, are turning their lives around and reaching back to help others live gang-free lifestyles. We’ll meet a man dedicated to this cause, and two young people whose lives have been transformed by his work, next on Black Issues Forum.
VO: Quality public television is made possible through the financial contributions of viewers like you who invite you to join them in supporting UNC-TV.
Brown: Good afternoon, everyone, and welcome to Black Issues Forum. I’m Natalie Bullock Brown. As a teenager in the 1980s, Otis Lyons started his own gang, which he named North Durham Vice. After nearly a decade of experiencing drive-by shootings, drug abuse, being shot at, drug peddling, and finally jail time, Lyons determined to spend his life helping others avoid the life he had lived. In keeping with that vision, he created an anti-gang, anti-drug movement called Campaign 4 Change. Apparently, the campaign is working.
We’ll share how and why in a moment. But first, I’m honored to introduce our guests today. Meet Otis Lyons, founder and president of Campaign 4 Change. Carlton Amey, a single parent and member of Campaign 4 Change’s staff, who recently ended a nearly-20-year career of drug dealing. And last but not least, Jakayla Hart, a 13-year old who works with the campaign as a speaker and performer. After a year and a half of being involved with a gang, she was able to get out. And now, she travels and speaks, sharing a warning message about gang involvement, domestic violence, and sexual abuse. Welcome, all of you, to Black Issues Forum.
Lyons:Thank you.
Brown: Now, Otis, I want to start off by just sort of setting up your life and—and the path that you were on. You started snatching purses when you were 12 years of age?
Lyons: Yeah.
Brown: And by 16, you were serving some jail time, is that correct?
Lyons: Yeah. Yeah.
Brown: And then—but in spite of the fact that you experienced this jail time, you still managed to graduate from high school. But it was on the day of graduation that something happened that turned your life around, and tell us about what that event was.
Lyons: Well, you know, I think what really made the transformation for me being just a petty thief to a hard-core criminal was the day of my graduation that—the only person who ever believed in me, that ever showed me real, true love was my grandmother who raised me. All she wanted me to do was graduate. So I tried to honor that, regardless of what I was doing in the streets. I ended up being fortunate enough to graduate, and the day of graduation, my family members had Duke Hospital to pull the plug on her, because she was, you know, suffering.
Brown: She’d been sick for a long time?
Lyons: For a while.
Brown: Mm hmm.
Lyons: From cancer.
Brown: And so how did that—that event—how did that make you feel, and what did you decide as a result of your grandmother’s death?
Lyons: Well, I was—I was mad at God. I hated my family. I hated my mother for, you know, I guess, giving them an approval to pull the plug. I just hated the world. I—you know, I felt like no one else in the world cared anything about me. So I vowed that day to—anyone crossed my path, I was going to hurt them, rob them, do whatever I could to just—I was just so angry. To—to hurt others like I was hurting. The pain I felt was indescribable.
Brown: Mm hmm. And Jakayla, I’m going to come to you and ask you if you had—not necessarily a similar experience, but, you know, what exactly was going on in your life that caused you to join a gang?
Hart: The similarity with his story and mine is the anger, wanting other people to feel just how you felt. And the thing was—to me, a gang was an escape from home, because home was worse than anything. The domestic violence, sexual abuse, all of it. So the gang was my escape. I didn’t have things like Campaign 4 Change. I was in fifth grade, you can’t play at sports. So I didn’t have that. So gang was my only other choice.
Brown: And what did you find in the gang that you felt like helped you to go through life and actually have some support?
Hart: It was the sense of a gang is a family, and I just wanted the love, which is really not there. It’s just an illusion, I’d say.
Brown: Mm hmm. And Carlton, I know that you never joined a gang, but you sold drugs for two decades.
Amey: Yes.
Brown: What led you to that lifestyle?
Amey: Well, being an A student in school and coming home at the age of 13, 14, and my father putting me out, on the day I presented a A report card to him. And having to move with my mother, and she moved and left me in the empty house. And I got with a guy—I was working at Biscuitville, making a little minimum-wage money. Got with a guy. He introduced me to the drug game. So it was a—it was mostly a thing of survival. And I was always a working drug dealer. So—
Brown: Meaning what? What do you—
Amey: Meaning working in the day and selling drugs at night.
Brown: Mm hmm.
Amey: So once he introduced me to that, I started liking the fame and the fortune and the money that come with it. And I just never turned around after that.
Brown: And why—if—well, I guess the message that drug dealers make a lot of money—you just said you liked the fame, you liked the fortune. Why’d you continue to work, and what were—what were you—what were you seeking besides money, if that’s even—
Amey: Basically—basically, I was ashamed. I was ashamed of selling drugs, but I like the consequences. Not only the consequences that’s come behind it. The power that you have in the streets as selling drugs.
Brown: Mm hmm.
Amey: It’s basically you’re the man. But it was basically—I wanted nice things. I always liked nice cars, nice clothes, and that’s what did it. I felt like a job couldn’t do that for me.
Brown: But you kept the job because you were ashamed of what you were doing at night?
Amey: Right. Right.
Brown: Okay.
Amey: I was ashamed of what I was doing to my own people, really.
Brown: Mm hmm. All right. Otis, so let’s come back to you and talk about how you turned your life around after so many years of—of gang banging, as it were. What got you to say, “Wait a second. I want to—I want to do something different?” Talk about your prison time.
Lyons: Yeah. I think it was a—a lot of different things. I mean, I think God was just placing things to—you know, signs in my way. I think the first wake-up call when I realized, “Hey, I got kids, and I’ve got to be responsible for the growth and the health of my own kids.” Me, growing up without a mother and father, you know, I always said I would never be like them. But I looked in the mirror and said, “Hey, I’m neglecting my own kids just like I—my mother and father.” So I think my kids was my first wake-up call.
I think, secondly, when I was released from prison—of course, I had received a 30-year sentence at the age of 18. So when God overturned my sentence, I was fortunate to get out after serving five years. I think the other notion was just seeing how crack had destroyed the community even more in a five-year span.
By being incarcerated, you—you’re just kind of oblivious to the world. And once I got out, it seemed cars was moving faster. People who was on drugs five years ago, and now I got out, they had no teeth, they done lost weight. They had no job, no home. And I seen how devastating it was to the community, and I think that was the second notion. And I think the third one was just personal growth. Growing as a man—as a man. Because I was a youth, and then I grew up into a man, and then you get—become more spiritual, more knowledgeable about the world.
Brown: Mm hmm. And so how quickly after you got out of prison—in fact, tell us how old you were, and then how soon after that you started Campaign 4 Change.
Lyons: Well, one thing about it, the—the depths that I was in disgrace is where people believe that there’s no way in the world that a person like me could change. I mean, I was the worst of the worst. So it was unbelievable, and it’s still unbelievable to myself. I look at my day today and say, “I can’t believe I’m the person I have came to be,” because my mentality and my personality is totally, 100, 360% different. Me, when I finally made the decision to make that change, I wanted to be held accountable for my own actions. So I had to stop smoking the weed. I had to stop selling them drugs. I had to stop—I had to live by example. But I wanted to show kids that, regardless of what level you’re on in life, you can make that change. So I try to be a little bit of an example.
Brown: Well, when you came out of prison, I believe you were 26, is that correct?
Lyons: Yeah.
Brown: And did you come out of prison and immediately start trying to change the way that your life was going? Or did you kind of fall back into old habits, and it took some time for you to get to the point where you were like, “Okay. Enough is enough”?
Lyons: Well, you—you’re put back in the same society, the same environment. So you—you’re a product of your own environment. So yes, I—I fell off the horse plenty of times, trying. I sold drugs for—for survival, and I hated to sell drugs. But I had a—what you call, like, a—expectations. I said if I got a certain amount of money, I would quit. And that’s what I did. I ended up quitting. And then I tried to open my own business, and I tried that. And I stuck up guys. I robbed a lot of drug dealers, and made quite a few dollars of robbing drug dealers. I mean, we would make $60,000 just by robbing one drug dealer, and turn back around and make another $20,000. So you—I was just living the fast life. And then it was a hard road, because I was still staying in nice places and driving nice cars, and the bills was piling up when I stopped selling drugs.
So really, it took a total of about seven years for me to make a true change. I think—I’m 40 years now, so I think I probably made a true change probably at—probably about 35.
Brown: Mm hmm. Mm hmm. Let me move on to Jakayla. You know, how did you get out of your situation? How did you get out of your gang?
Hart: The first thing was I switched households. That changed a lot. And—
Brown: How did that change? How did that help you to get out?
Hart: You change your environment, and once you change the environment, you’re not around the same people. You don’t have the pressure to stay in. And basically, you become—you find out who you are. And once that is—because, like, a gang, me—I can’t be both.
Brown: Mm hmm.
Hart: So you have to make that choice. And once you make that choice, you’re out.
Brown: Mm hmm. I want to ask all of you a question, but I’m going to hold off until I get to Carlton. You know, you just recently—I mean, two years ago, you just ended your career of selling drugs. What was it that caused you to say, “Enough is enough”?
Amey: Well, by me having good friends—Mr. Lyons is a long-time friend. He educated me about prison. That’s a place I didn’t want to go, because I like luxury things. I like TVs. I like going in the refrigerator when I want to. So he was telling me, “You”—this is a quote: “You throwing bricks at a penitentiary.” So kept on. I was hard headed, hard headed, hard headed. And I ended up running into two incidents in one week. So in that week, he was having a production that Friday. He asked me to come to the production. Earlier that day, God put it in my heart to go to that production. And once I went to the production, after the production, I was stuck. I was just stuck there, and I couldn’t move for some reason. I had to talk to him. So right after that, I joined Campaign 4 Change. And you can’t play both sides of the fence. You just have to stay positive. So once I joined that—and anything I join, I dedicate all my time to it. I dedicate it. So I’ve been on Campaign 4 Change since, and it’s been great.
Brown: All right. Well, that’s a great—
Amey: It’s been great.
Brown:--segue to—back to Otis to just talk about Campaign 4 Change and what’s your mission through—through that organization? What is it?
Lyons: Well—well, we have several different missions, of course, you know. But we try to tackle something that we feel like other organizations is not tackling. And one of them is decimating the lucrative flow of drug dealing. Because how can you tell a kid that’s hungry, and they’re in a poor environment, not to go sell drugs and make $10,000 a week? How could you tell them that? What could you say to this kid to make them say, “I’m not going to go get all this good money?”
So Campaign 4 Change shows them that. They educate—we educate them, and we show them, “Getting this money—yeah, you’re going to get this money. You’re going to get the fancy cars. You’re going to get the—the fame in the streets. But it’s going to be a life of destruction down the end. You’re going to go to jail. You’re going to get robbed or attempted robbery. You’re life is going to be in danger at all times, because people are going to try to take what you earn.”
And the terminology “easy come, easy go,” you get easy money, it goes so fast. So that’s one way. We try to empower them. We try to empower them, because most African Americans has been stripped of morals. They haven’t been taught morals and values of family. They also have been stripped of even being who they want to be. You can be anything you want to be. We try to instill that back into the youth. We try to instill that back in the kids. And I’d like to address these two people. One thing that’s real prevalent in her life is a great family structure now. She has the family that’s going to make her active in a lot of positive things. Not just—
Brown: Mm hmm. And you didn’t have that before?
Lyons: She didn’t have that before. And that’s what it takes basically for all kids. You have to keep them active in positive things. She’s not just in Campaign 4 Change. She’s running track. She’s in several different other organizations, helping back—giving back to the community.
Brown: Mm hmm.
Lyons: And—and Mr. Amey, I mean, you know, we was lifetime friends. We—we did several robberies together. We—we sold drugs together. In honesty—all honesty, when I stepped out of the drug game, he was the first person I gave my last package to, and told him to keep it up. And then eventually, when I made my life change, we talked about it, and I said, “You need to step out.” And he wouldn’t never step out. I mean, I was on him for about a year. And eventually, something cracked through to him, and he said, “It’s time, and I’m out.” His beliefs powered up just like mine, and I said, “You’ve just got to see it through. And then he got a desk job. He’s a career man. And we’re doing—we’re moving forward.
Brown: Well, this is the question that I wanted to ask all three of you, and then we’re going to get back to some more of the things you’re doing through Campaign 4 Change. But what do you—what do each of you attribute your survival—the fact that you did not get shot to death. The fact that you did not get beat down when you tried to get out of your gang or, you know, that you—you weren’t completely taken out when you decided, “I don’t want to do this anymore,” after having done it—sold drugs for so long. What was it? What do you think it is that kept you and allowed you to get out of the lifestyle, so that now you can tell others about what you went through and, “Don’t go there”? And Otis, we’ll start with you.
Lyons: Well, I hate to sound—what they say, the cliché, or whatever. But I firmly believe that it was only the grace of God. Because I ran over 30 guys in my gang, and 15 of my immediate soldiers are either dead or they’re incarcerated, or served a long period of time in prison. I see, back in hindsight, that God was changing me 20 years ago.
Brown: Mm hmm.
Lyons: And I see it now. I see all the steps that I had to take. I’ve been shot twice, stabbed once. Two highway accidents going more than 65 miles an hour. Hundreds of shootouts. I’ve been shot directly in the head. I have a permanent hole in my head, where a guy put—put the gun to my head and pulled the trigger.
Brown: Wow.
Lyons: Why I’m standing in—sitting here and—with all my health and strength and not in a wheelchair, it was only the grace of God.
Brown: Yeah.
Lyons: I was chosen, and I believe Jakayla was chosen and Mr. Amey was chosen. But a lot of other kids are chosen. You’ve just got to put them—pull them out of that environment and give them a proper structure.
Brown: Mm hmm. Jakayla, what would you say?
Hart: God, and God only. I would say that the gang was my form of suicide, and it didn’t happen. I tried many times to get shot. It didn’t happen. So I’m here for a reason, and I have to make sure that I live up to that reason. Brown: Great. Thank you. And Carlton, what about you?
Amey: Yeah. It was God. Saying a prayer. I have a lot of people that prays for me. You know, I’ve been shot, in numerous car accidents that they wouldn’t think you would survive. And like I say, I’m put here for a reason, myself. You know?
Brown: Mm hmm.
Amey: Give back and life—life testimonies.
Brown: Mm hmm.
Amey: Yeah.
Brown: Let me ask Jakayla and Carlton. Is there anyone in your lives that were there when you were in the gang, were selling drugs, that’s still there and that you are—you know, is heavy on your heart to go back and try and help, just like Otis said he left you and came back. And you don’t have to to give names, but I’m just wondering if there are people that you’re really trying to help get out of that lifestyle, that you know personally. Jakayla?
Hart: Yeah. There’s a lot of them. There’s one of them who’s in a situation way worse than mind, and the thing is with him, he has his mother influencing him saying, “Oh, no. This is what you’re going to do. This is the only way you can pay the bills, or this is the only way I’m going to pay—keep paying for your lawyers. You go sell drugs.” And the fact that his mother is the one on his back, that—it feels like there’s nothing I can do. Bu I am going to try. Brown: Mm hmm. And you should.
Lyons: We’ll get him.
Brown: And Carlton?
Amey: Yes. I have about 10 people that I mentor and talk to. You know, a lot of knowledge that he—Mr. Otis Lyons passed to me, I pass to other ones. Unfortunately, I lost one that I used to talk to, but, you know, others, they’re listening, and they’re in the transformation situation now. You know, I keep on talking to them, and I keep banging it in their head, keep banging in their head. And maybe we’ll get something good out of that.
Brown: Otis, Carlton earlier mentioned that you invited him to a Campaign 4 Change production.
Lyons: Mm hmm.
Brown: Can you talk about what that production looks like? What does it consist of?
Lyons: Well, Campaign 4 Change production, it consists of three major components. A film presentation, a keynote speaker, and the play, which is Ridin’ Wit Joe Crack, about the typical American African drug dealer that thinks he’s going to get ahead by selling drugs. But what we do in the play, we try to show the true life of what street life is all about. So we show a lot of beat down obstacles that you go through when you run the streets, where a lot of kids, they only see the fascination on TV, but they don’t really see the end result. Or they don’t really see what could happen while you’re being out there. Because when you’re out there, you know, the Devil is roaming, and we try to show how the Devil is out there. And there’s so many ways that you could lose your life or go to prison.
Brown: Mm hmm.
Lyons: A lot of people don’t realize prison is just like dying. I have a friend now that ran the streets with me, been locked up for 24 years. That’s a living corpse behind razor fences and steel bars. And that’s what we talk about. And the film presentation is more focused on empowerment. Letting them know you can be whoever you want to be. And in the film presentation, I show them where I had the 30 years in prison, but I got out, and then I traveled the world, basically, with A-list starts like Queen Latifah, Magic Johnson, Chris Tucker. People that they look up to. And I say, “Well, here’s a nappy-headed guy that ran the streets, didn’t have no further education, but I made a change. And look what I do today. You could do the same thing.”
Brown: Tell—well, I want to stick with that, because I know I read it in your bio that, once you got out of prison, you—you started trying to get involved with music and entertainment.
Lyons: Mm hmm.
Brown: So tell us a little bit about how that helped to save your life, really.
Lyons: Yeah. Well, I had always been into music and entertainment. I was on the radio at the age of 12 years old with 88.1 with Waxmaster Tory, Musical Showcase. I used to rap way back in the days. So I always had a love for entertainment. I used to perform shows and open up for the old cools, like LL Cool J, Douggie Fresh, and them. So basically, when I got out of prison, I just went back to my original dream. A lot of kids have lost their dream. So I just went back to my old, original dream. And instead of wanting to be a performer, I wanted to teach people how to perform. Jakayla’s a poet. So we work on her presentation. We’re teaching her how to be a better poet. You know, everyone, we teach something, because everyone’s got talent. And you’ve just got to get it—get it out of them.
Brown: Right.
Lyons: And focus.
Brown: I’m going to, in the remaining minutes, come to Jakayla and Carlton one more time. And I’d like for you guys to just give advice to our viewers. If—if someone is thinking about joining a gang, thinking about selling a drugs, is involved now, what would you say to them, Jakayla?
Hart: First, I would tell them, if you’re looking for family, you have God. If you’re looking for someone to love you, you have to love yourself first. And it’s not worth it. Nothing’s worth giving your life and sacrificing your life to. And if God spares your life this many times, ain’t no reason to go back. If the Devil couldn’t get me then, he sure ain’t going to get me now. And that’s the way I like to say it.
Brown: I appreciate that. Yes, Carlton?
Amey: Basically, you know, I don’t know what a successful drug dealer is. There’s no future in drugs. You’re going to get killed, go to jail, or just end up broke. I mean—and I just think—tell drug dealers and people to think about your kids. You know, if something happens to you, who’s going to raise your kids? You know, and just stay close to your kids. That’s what—really made me change, you know. Because of having to raise my son by myself. So that’s basically—it just made me change, you know. Brown: Mm hmm. And Otis, can you give us more information about how people can get involved with Campaign 4 Change or maybe when future productions will be taking place? Lyons: Yeah. What I like to tell people that’s watching this show—they can go on our website, which is www.c4c4life.com. And we got an “I want to join” form on there. We’re now accepting kids from 10 years old, on up. We’ve got people as old as 47 years old that support Campaign 4 Change. We’re also going to start a Children 4 Change. So we’re very excited about bringing in, like, a year-round children’s camp that kids can go to and be surrounded—around positive things, positive people. And I think that’s very important for anyone out there. If a kid is going to make a change, you’ve got to change their environment. It’s impossible for him or she to make a change without changing environment. And so we try to create that environment. Brown: Great. I’d like to thank Otis Lyons Carlton Amey, and Jakayla Hart for being with us today. Thank you so much. And if you’d like to get in touch with our guests or obtain a transcript of today’s show, visit us online at UNC-TV.org/bif. And when you visit, be sure to give us your comments and program suggestions. You can also call us on the BIF line at 919-549-7167. Be sure to meet us right back here each week for more on the people and topics that concern you.
For Black Issues Forum, I’m Natalie Bullock Brown reminding you to be encouraged, no matter what. Peace and blessings. VO: Quality public television is made possible through the financial contributions of viewers like you who invite you to join them in supporting UNC-TV.
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