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Participants
Lindstrom: Coming
up, the House starts debating an economic stimulus package.
Owens: I really wish
we were not in the incentive game. I wish we didn't have to
have that, but unfortunately you have to do it to stay competitive.
You have to do that in business and you have to do that in
government.
Lindstrom: Also tonight,
the pros and cons of a video poker ban and an update on the
debate over the Qur'án. That's next on Legislative
Week in Review.
[THEME MUSIC]
Voiceover: This program
was made possible by contributions to UNC-TV from viewers
like you. Thank you.
[THEME MUSIC]
Crowley: Good evening
and welcome to Legislative Week in Review. I'm Tim Crowley.
Lindstrom: And I'm
Rebecca Lindstrom; thanks for joining us. This week lawmakers
battled over a business incentives package. The measure is
designed to create new jobs for North Carolina.
Crowley: Also tonight,
a House committee renders a verdict on judicial campaign reforms,
the governor speaks out about the state's credit rating downgrade,
and lawmakers make a push for an alert system for kidnapped
children.
Lindstrom: Plus tonight,
the latest on a debate surrounding the Qur'án, and
we put video poker In Focus, but first, creating jobs
for North Carolinians.
Crowley: This week
state lawmakers considered a business incentives package designed
to stimulate the economy and bring new jobs to North Carolina.
The same measure stalled in a committee last week after some
stiff opposition. Backers say the incentives are needed to
spur a staggering-an economic climate, but critics call the
plan corporate welfare.
[THEME MUSIC]
M: The House resolves.
M: The Senate concurring..
Crowley: The House
tentatively approved an incentive bill this week that would
help North Carolina lure businesses to the state by paying
cash grants.
Owens: I really wish
we were not in the incentive game. I wish we didn't have to
have that, but unfortunately you have to do it to stay competitive.
You have to do that in business and you have to do that in
government.
Crowley: Under the
plan endorsed by the governor and top legislative leaders,
the grants would be tied to the amount of income taxes generated
by a company's new employees. Companies could receive 75%
of income taxes paid by employees for up to 12 years. That's
less than the original bill, which would have been 80% or
15 years. Only 25 companies could get a grant in a given year;
however, there are no dollar caps, which critics are concerned
about.
Pope: But all of you
voted for a budget that had cuts in education, cuts in the
health care. Are you going to turn around and vote to give
blank checks to corporations through this grant program 12
years into the future? I hope not.
Crowley: One change
some lawmakers are trying to push is a $250 million cap for
the grants.
Nesbitt: If we are
going to create a program on a week's notice, after we had
to pass a budget that couldn't meet the needs of this state,
and we had to use one-time money, and we lost our bond rating,
I think a quarter of a billion dollars is enough.
Owens: The only problem
is, if you gave $20 million to somebody like a BMW or a Mercedes
or what, you'd be out of business from day one. You wouldn't
be able to give any more grants under this program whatsoever.
Starnes: Our state
is in a fiscal crisis. We don't have plenty of money to give
away. Now yes, we want to do whatever we can to encourage
business and industry to come to North Carolina because our
people need the jobs. But there's still-this bill still comes
with a price tag and no one can tell us what it's going to
cost.
McMahan: And I think
it's very important that we consider some type of program
to try to reboost the economy for the next few years, and
that's what this is really about-an opportunity to try to
go out and find some new employers in the state of North Carolina
to provide new jobs. We know that new jobs mean salaries and
salaries mean a lot of money to a lot of different entities
in North Carolina.
Crowley: There was
no vote taken on this amendment before the Speaker called
for a Second Reading vote. It will be debated again on Monday.
Nesbitt tried to make a similar change in committee this week
but it failed by one vote. One change that did pass in committee
was changing the size of the group that would make the grants.
Originally it was three appointees of the governor, but the
community colleges president and Secretary of Labor were added.
Sherrill: As I said
before, I believe that the community college system needs
to be at the table. I think the Secretary of Labor, who knows
our labor laws both state and nationally, needs a seat at
the table, and I believe that when you think about who those
five people are, I think they're all responsible. They're
very interested in seeing North Carolina flourish and grow.
Crowley: Another amendment
that sparked some heated debate was requiring a company receiving
a grant to get certified in one of the state's workplace safety
programs.
Goodwin: We all want
good jobs; we want great paying jobs and particularly in our
area. We need them statewide. But by goodness, we shouldn't
sacrifice workplace safety for the job when we can do both.
I think this is what this is about is that, if we're going
to bring jobs here by offering state incentives from our taxpayers,
we don't want to have the blood of these people who might
get injured on the hands of all the taxpayers.
Arnold: We're trying
to get industry to come in to some urban areas. Now this program
is a wonderful program. They're going to do it anyway. But
once you start tying these types of things to a agreement
that makes it null and void if they don't do it, then you
run the risk of running people out before you can even bring
them into the state.
Crowley: The amendment
failed in committee. One concern from critics is that the
program does nothing for small businesses and businesses already
in the state. Two business groups are on opposite sides of
the bill over the issue.
Morgan: It is much
more expensive to do business here and to live here in North
Carolina than it is in South Carolina, Virginia and our neighboring
states. Clearly, businesses who are looking at the long-term
will find North Carolina to be unattractive indeed, and that's
why we've become non-competitive.
Kirk: Passage of this
bill would be a tremendous boost to small business, no matter
what you've heard. When a community lands a big or mid-sized
industry or business, every business benefits-car dealerships,
real estate agents, retail merchants, restaurants, daycare
centers, gasoline stations, convenience stores, and the list
goes on.
Crowley: When the incentives
package reached the House floor late this week, only one other
possible change received a vote, and it was over "potty
parity."
Saunders: One issue
would require that if a company receives one of the grants
that they would have what is commonly called "potty parity:"
that they would provide the same facilities for women as they
do for men in the bathroom area to be able to get in, do their
business and get out as quickly as men can.
Arnold: Representative,
are you serious with this amendment?
Saunders: I'm serious
as a heart attack.
Arnold: This is inane
and ridiculous. This is micro management at its absolute worst.
We've already learned our lesson when we micromanaged education.
Let's stay out of the toilets. Vote no.
Crowley: The amendment
went down the drain because it didn't get a majority of the
votes.
Crowley: The House
still needs to take a final vote on the incentives package.
House leaders say that could happen Monday when they will
take up more amendments.
Lindstrom: The debate
on the Job Creation Bill is where we get our Quote of the
Week. South Carolina was brought up several times this
week as competition for this state. That prompted a call from
South Carolina's governor to House Speaker Jim Black:
[THEME MUSIC]
"He asked me to ask you
to vote against this bill if you would. He also wants you
to vote against the lottery." House Speaker Jim Black
Crowley: For more on
the debate surrounding the incentives program, Rebecca Lindstrom
sits down to talk with the bill's sponsor and one of his opponents.
They are this week's Newsmakers.
[THEME MUSIC]
Lindstrom: Representative
Bill Owens and Representative Art Pope, thanks so much for
being with us. Certainly quite a bit of discussion this week
on what has been called the North Carolina Economic Stimulus
and Job Creation Act. This is something that you sponsored,
Representative Owens. Tell us a little bit about how you see
this bill, if it does pass through, actually creating jobs
for North Carolina.
Owens: Well first of
all, I'd like to say that I don't believe any of us, on both
sides of the issue, like incentives. We love to compete on
an equal basis and not have to deal with this. Unfortunately,
18 other states across the nation have this form of incentive,
and we feel that we have not been competitive. A lot of jobs
are being lost to other states, especially some of our neighboring
states. So right now, we're the third largest unemployed state
in the nation, and that's not something to be proud of. We're
paying over a billion dollars a year for unemployment. Just
like in business, you have to spend money to make money. In
this case, we have to spend money to put people back to work
rather than pay them to stay off work. So we feel that this
is the tool that the State Economic Development Board, along
with the Department of Commerce, studied the issue. We've
reduced the Bill Lee Act credits by about $35 million over
a five-year period of time. So we've made some adjustments
there and we realize that this costs something, but the one
criterion is that these jobs would not be in North Carolina
without this grant. That is one of the criteria for getting
this grant.
Lindstrom: So in a
nutshell though, how do you see this grant program working?
Owens: Well, this grant
program would, as some consultants have told me, put us back
in the game. They eliminate us from the get-go because we
do not offer as many incentives as other states. It used to
be livability and schools and a lot of other things. The bottom
line to the stockholders, unfortunately, is the main thing
when you choose a new site selection. So with this tool, we
can be more competitive with other states.
Lindstrom: Representative
Pope, I know you wouldn't disagree that we've lot a lot of
jobs in this state. Certainly, trying to find ways to get
some of those jobs here is something everyone wants to work
toward, but yet you still have some concerns with this approach
to doing it. Why?
Pope: I have major
concerns on many fronts. First and foremost, yes, we would
like to create jobs. One of the reasons North Carolina jobs
are being lost is because North Carolina has a very high tax
burden on its families and on its businesses. Comparisons
were made to South Carolina. South Carolina has a corporate
income tax rate of only 5%. North Carolina is 6.9%; our taxes
are 38% higher than South Carolina. So yes, when everything
is equal-which sometimes happens, not often-a company will
choose a lower tax state. What we need is to lower the tax
burden on all employers. One of the major problems with this
bill is that it only benefits, or claims to benefit new employers.
Whether all the small businesses across North Carolina, all
the businesses have been paying taxes and paying employees
good salaries for decades or years, they get no benefit from
this. It's the new kid on the block who may be coming to North
Carolina any way who gets corporate subsidies-it's corporate
welfare for the existing North Carolina taxpayers. That's
what's wrong with this bill. The third thing, for the first
time in the history of our state, we're authorizing a five-member
committee in the executive branch to obligate future citizen
taxpayers to pay millions of dollars in benefits and grants
to corporations. Right now, the state cannot even obligate
the citizens to pay a $250 bond issue for public schools without
a referendum of the people. Under this bill, this five-member
committee can obligate the state to pay $250 million or more
over 10 or 12 years to private corporations-no accountability.
It's irresponsibility, it's shirking its duty and that's just
wrong.
Lindstrom: Representative
Owens, you may have several comments to those statements,
but I also want you to specifically address why is this program
not extending to existing businesses?
Owens: Well, right
now the Bill Lee Act, which is our major economic tool to
recruit and expand industry, as well as new industry-85% of
that money over the years has gone to existing business here
in North Carolina. We need to continue to do all we can for
the people who got us here. I agree with Representative Pope,
corporate income tax, personal income tax are things we need
to address. First year, Representative Lyons Gray and myself
did the Bill Lee Act-we reduced corporate income tax, we reduced
personal income tax and we need to do more of that. Unfortunately,
with our economic times, we don't have the money to do that
right now, and that's the long-term fix. The short-term fix
is this. It was studied, we looked at the ten most prosperous
states, what they're doing, how they're being successful,
and tried to pick the thing that gets the most bang for the
buck at the least cost, and this is what we found.
Lindstrom: And because
of our economic times, I know that that has been the reason
why some lawmakers have suggested putting a cap on how far
this program can extend. That was something on the House floor
that you showed some support for. How do you think this helps
the program?
Pope: Well, the cap
not so much helps the program as it helps the citizens of
North Carolina. We have three busted budgets in a row. Moody's
just downgraded North Carolina's bond rating, citing the fact
that we have a structural deficit-operating deficit-in our
budget. We already know that next year's budget, while it
balances on paper, uses non-recurring money on recurring expenditures.
Under this bill, this five-member committee would essentially
say, "Here's the check for the North Carolina taxpayers
to pay. We may not have enough money to fully fund education
or fully fund health care, but we entered a contract to give
$10 million to the Acme Corporation. Well, if that is not
capped, it could be an obligation with $250 or $500 million
over the future years, and that will further endanger our
bond rating. It will further endanger the burden put on North
Carolina taxpayers to meet that obligation. So that's why
we think a cap is reasonable, and if, by chance, there is
a great company or great program that would call for $250
million, then with the General Assembly convened, we can act
on that and approve it with the voters' elected officials
rather than this five-member committee doing this.
Lindstrom: Concerns
about a cap?
Owens: Well, we have
a cap-only 25 businesses a year can receive this. Now if you
have someone like BMW-which South Carolina gave $130 million
to come there with a $4.1 billion economic impact and a net-a
net-amount of taxes going to the state coffers after all expenses
of almost $28 million a year. You spend the money, you make
the money, you get a lot more money in than you give out.
It's kind of like giving a rebate, and that's exactly what
we're doing-giving a rebate as so many people do. So it's-it's
just that we've got to meet the competition head on. North
Carolina has always been competitive. We've lost our competitive
edge.
Lindstrom: Representative
Owens, Representative Pope mentioned the five-member committee
and the power that this would give them potentially. Any concerns
about that-letting five people decide what to do with such
large amounts of money?
Owens: Well, he said
they were all executive branch. That's incorrect. Two of the
members-one of them is the president of the community college
system and the other is the elected member-Secretary of the
Department of Labor..
Pope: They're both
members of the executive branch.
Owens: But once again,
they are elected by-one by the Community College Board and
one by the people of North Carolina. The-right now, most of
the grant money is being giving away by one person-Secretary
of the Department of Commerce-so this expands it quite a bit.
You need to have people who are close and can make quick decisions
and be here in Raleigh, and also have a financial interest
in the budget, such as the Budget Director, Secretary of Revenue-those
are two of the people on the committee as well.
Lindstrom: Representative
Pope, we have just a few more moments, but we talk about jobs-people
can embrace that. We start talking about the numbers and some
of the ways with which we want to implement this program,
and I think a lot of people kind of lose the perspective of
what we're trying to do. As this debate continues, what is
the one thing that you would want people at home to really
understand about your concerns relating to this bill?
Pope: My concern is
that their hard earned tax dollars are being used for corporate
welfare, going to businesses and corporations who would have
been coming to North Carolina anyway. There is the requirement
and hope that but for this grant, they wouldn't come to North
Carolina. All the independent studies show that the business
leaders make their decision on where best to find a qualified
workforce, good education and quality of life. The rate incentives
and grants are at the bottom of the list. Will they take advantage
of it? Yes. When you go to your grocery store, if you have
a coupon for a rebate, will you take advantage of it? Yes,
but does that mean that you're not going to go to the grocery
store? We need across the board tax relief in order to have
prosperity for all North Carolina families, all North Carolina
businesses-not tax subsidies, not tax handouts to a few big
corporations with good lobbyists to pass this bill and then
get the grants handed out to them by this five-member committee.
Lindstrom: Representative
Owens, your closing remarks?
Owens: Closing remarks
that these big businesses locate here-anywhere from one to
six small jobs are developed around these businesses. We need
to do those types of things. One of the things that we talked
about earlier was, you know, that we're having difficulties
financially and we are because we're not willing to-like the
sales tax has been proposed, then a lottery-letting the people
vote on a lottery to bring in the needed revenue so we don't
lose the Triple-A Bond Rating. But the bottom line on this
is we're not using the taxpayer's money to fund this grant.
The business that comes in here-you take a portion of the
withholding tax from the employee of that new company that
wouldn't have been here and you give them a portion of that
money back. The important thing-part of that money, if it's
a Tier 4 and 5 county goes back to infrastructure grants to
the Tiers 1, 2, and 3 counties that so desperately need water,
sewer and other infrastructure needs. It's the only way they're
going to be successful in economic development.
Lindstrom: Well, this
passed Second Reading in the House this week. We know that
it's going to be coming back up for discussion on Monday,
possibly several amendments that we will be hearing some discussion
from, so we know that there's a lot more to be said on this
issue. We thank you both so much though for coming on and
sharing your opinions with us.
Pope: Thank you.
Owens: Thank you.
Crowley: So tell us your
opinion on the issue. Do you believe the state should use
taxpayer money to attract new jobs and businesses to North
Carolina? You can cast your vote on our website at www.unctv.org.
You can also call record your response by calling 919-549-7830
or at legweek@unctv.org.
Crowley: We're covering
all branches of government in this week's Journal.
The executive branch weighs in this week on the downgrade
of the state's credit rating, and the legislative branch focuses
on the judicial branch this week.
[THEME MUSIC]
Crowley: A Judicial
Campaign Reform Bill that included a public financing component
was debated over two days this week in the House Finance Committee.
The bill would create public financing for State Supreme Court
and Court of Appeals candidates if they agree to spending
limits. It would also change the elections to nonpartisan.
The system would be funded through a voluntary tax check off
and attorney's fees.
Morgan: But it's time
that I think that we do something about money in judicial
elections.
Culpepper: What this
bill is doing here is drawing a line between judicial elections,
which are different than the political partisan races that
we are running. We are saying they should be different and
they are different. They are held to different standards in
their campaigning and things of that nature.
Crowley: The issue
was a partisan one in committee. Republicans made attempts
to get rid of the nonpartisan provision in the bill.
Blust: We want the
public to be able to elect the candidates they want at the
ballot box based on good, sound information. Now that having
been said, as unknown as most of these candidates are for
the appellate court and for the Supreme Court, the only information
that most voters have about these candidates is what their
political party is.
Crowley: No vote was
ever taken on this amendment in committee. The other criticism
centered on the tax check off. Republicans contend that Democrats
are pushing a new way to do the tax check off to gain more
money for the program than other check offs have received.
C. Wilson: I know all
of us in here work with polls and I think that's probably
one of the best polls we've seen on what public support is
for using their tax dollars for political campaigns. When
you only have 8% of the people who make a decision that, yes,
I want just $1 dollar-I mean, we're not talking about big
bucks here-they're saying, "I want $1 of my taxpayer
money going into these funds." I can understand why the
proponents of the bill want to have what's called a "reverse
check off," which is a sneaky way of making sure they
get a heck of a lot more money than they've got right now
with a legitimate check off.
Crowley: The bill passed
the finance committee on a party line vote. It now moves to
the House floor. One judicial issue that had made it to the
House floor was sent back to committee earlier this month.
The issue is also highly partisan. It would let voters decide
to change the constitution to allow District Court judges
to have eight-year terms instead of four-year term. Proponents
say that could attract more qualified candidates to the bench.
Rader: Someone who
has been in practice for a while, or been in the DA's office
for a while and is now a felony prosecutor, who is making
good money, they are not as willing to do it for a four-year
term as they would be for an eight.
Crowley: Currently
Superior and appellate court judges have eight-year terms.
Sutton: I view it as
a degree of fairness. If Superior Court judges get the eight-year
term, I think it is only fair that the District Court judges
have it.
Crowley: Republicans
contend the bill will help judges already on the bench and
the majority of District Court judges right now are Democrats.
Arnold: The incumbent,
particularly in a judges race, has a distinct advantage. You
win elections by name, approvability, and name recognition.
As you're going to get someone to run for a race against someone
who has been in office eight years, that's almost insurmountable.
Crowley: The committee
didn't vote on the measure. The issue could be in trouble
since it would require a three-fifths vote in the House instead
of a majority since it changes the constitution. And this
week, the state's coveted Triple-A bond rating was reduced
by Moody's Investor's Service. A letter from Moody's says
that downgrade reflects the state's continued budget pressure,
its reliance on one-time money instead of recurring dollars,
and the state's weakened balance sheet. The rating agency
wrote that a state lottery could help the structural balance
of the state budget. That caused Governor Easley to renew
his call for lawmakers to approve a state lottery.
Easley: You can't hold
anybody at gunpoint to make them vote. We can explain it to
them and let them see that failure to act will hurt their
state. The failure to act will be a responsible failure to
act and will result in this state sliding backwards and losing
so much progress that we have gained over the years, and that
this is indeed a critical year.
Crowley: The governor
also says the state's credit downgrade could lead to downgrades
for local governments and could reduce the pace at which the
state issues more than $3 billion in bonds for university
and community college construction and water and sewer infrastructure.
Crowley: House leaders
say they're working on the budget and an economic stimulus
package before dealing with a lottery. Lottery backers say
they're still several votes short of the number needed for
passage.
Lindstrom: This week
freshmen at UNC-Chapel Hill completed a controversial summer
reading program. But some say the issue is far from over.
In a unanimous vote on Thursday, a UNC Board of Governors
committee passed a resolution reaffirming its support for
academic freedom and university leaders say they're trying
to help legislators try to understand their position. Tonight
Shannon Vickery takes a look at the debate and what led to
this week's vote.
Voices: C-A-R-O-L-I-N-A..
Vickery: New students
were greeted with cheers last week when they arrived at UNC-Chapel
Hill for a special orientation called "Freshman Camp."
As these students got familiar with life on campus, their
new home was under the glare of the national spotlight.
M: Down at the University
of North Carolina at Chapel Hill they're trying to raise Islam
awareness by requiring all 3500 incoming freshmen to read
a book called Approaching the Qur'án: the Early
Revelations.
Vickery: CNN's program
is just one example of the extensive coverage the summer reading
program has garnered over the past couple of weeks. Chancellor
James Moeser says he isn't surprised by the reaction to the
book, but that he was caught off guard by the direction the
debate has taken.
Moeser: We knew there
was an element of controversy, obviously. These are highly
charged times, but surprised by some of the vitriol and some
of the really kind of violently hateful responses we've gotten.
Vickery: The debate
has even made its way into the state budget, where the House
of Representatives approved a special provision in the spending
plan which prohibits state funds from being used for the summer
reading program unless it includes all religions. Moeser says
this move crossed over an important line between the lawmakers'
responsibility for appropriating money without dictating curriculum.
Moeser: In point of
fact, it's-we're talking about a few thousand dollars. We
have 180 discussion group leaders that are volunteering their
time. This is not about money. This is about a principle.
Vickery: Religion professor
Carl Ernst recommended Michael Sells' book for the summer
reading program. He says the aim of the program is to introduce
students to the types of material they'll be reading in their
classes.
Ernst: We want to let
people know that the university is not a trade school where
you just go in to get a few technical pieces of information
so you can get your first job, but we want to impart a liberal
education which is designed to educate people for a complex
society and world.
Vickery: But not everyone
agrees with the university's position. Representative Larry
Justus sponsored the special provision regarding the summer
reading program in the House's version of the budget.
Justus: It just seems
to me that teaching this particular subject at this time in
history was insensitive to those people who lost their people-their
loved ones at the World Trade Center, in the Pentagon, on
the aircraft and certainly to our people in uniform.
Vickery: But not all
lawmakers agree with the special provision.
Lee: I'm deeply concerned
because I think it injects the Legislature too deeply into
academic decisions at the university. I think it's imperative
that we as a state protect our universities and ensure that
they have academic freedom to educate our students and our
leaders for tomorrow.
Vickery: Senator Lee
says the special provision will be scrutinized by the Budget
Conference Committee and probably will not make it into the
final version of the budget. And while that may end this part
of the debate, the question of academic freedom has surfaced
outside the General Assembly-this time with the university's
own Board of Governors. On Friday, August 9th,
the governing board held its monthly meeting, and Ray Farris
of Charlotte entered a resolution to reaffirm the board's
commitment to academic freedom.
Farris: Resolved that
the Board of Governors support students, faculties and administrations
of its 16 campuses and their commitment to freedom-religious,
academic, and political-to their fair exchange of ideas, to
their examining different cultures and conflicting values
of all kinds, always in the light of day and with the confidence
that thoughtful study and intellectual inquiry are fundamental
for this university and the goal of this board.
Vickery: According
to university documents, this resolution largely mirrors the
Board of Governors Policy on Academic Freedom; however, Board
Chairman Brad Wilson says the resolution failed to garner
the number of votes needed for passage because the way it
was brought to the board violated the organization's policy.
B. Wilson: That is,
it did not come to the floor, if you will, through a committee,
and as a result thereof our rules require that a two-thirds
standard be met in order for the resolution to be adopted.
So I want to stress the resolution proper had a vast majority
of board members supporting it, but it did, in fact, fail
by one vote to meet that higher standard by virtue of the
way it was brought before the Board of Governors.
Vickery: Former UNC
President William Friday says the Board of Governors must
act quickly to reaffirm its commitment to academic freedom.
Friday: Historically,
this university has been the advocate of academic freedom
all of its life. We've had many arguments about it-the teaching
of evolution, the Speaker Ban Law, athletics-we've been all
over the map. And in every instance the basic fundamental
point is that people can come teach or speak here in a responsible
way and be accountable for what they say and have the freedom
to do it. About every generation I've learned, studying the
history of the university, that you have to go through a process
like this to really define what you really are. But the public
of this state created this place to do that for them.
Vickery: And that is
what's really at the heart of this debate according to Chancellor
Moeser: the question of what role the university plays in
exploring the world. That's why he says a book about the Qur'án
was chosen in the first place.
Lindstrom: The full
Board of Governors is expected to take a vote on the resolution
when it meets in September. There's no word yet on whether
the House's special provision relating to the issue will make
it into the final budget report.
Crowley: Speaking of
the budget, the Conference Committee chairs reportedly met
twice this week to look at differences between the House and
Senate spending plans, but it appears there has been little
progress in reaching any compromise in the $14 billion spending
plan. As a result, the Senate remained in recess this week.
Lindstrom: Dealing
with a deadly school outburst is not part of the job description
for most educators, but that's just what they learned while
gearing up for the new school year. More than 600 public schools
reportedly assembled critical incident response kits which
include architectural layouts and evacuation routes at the
schools as well as emergency contact information. Teachers
and administrators also watched a video demonstrating what
they should do in case of a school shooting. More schools
are scheduled for training this fall.
Crowley: Schools could
also take on more responsibility for the care of students
with diabetes. The legislation sparked days of debate in the
House but after a few changes, it seemed to sail through a
Senate committee. Here are the key differences. The House
bill wanted each school to work with parents and health care
providers to created individualized care plans for its diabetic
students. The Senate's version pushes for more general guidelines
to be created by the State Board of Education. The Senate
also eliminates any funding for the program in hopes of getting
the bill passed in this tight budget year.
Lindstrom: Preventing
high school dropouts and improving the state's educational
system: this week the House passed out of committee a bill
designed to do just that. It encourages school systems to
put their best teachers in middle school grades, rewards those
able to reduce dropout rates, and looks to community colleges
for help in increasing technical training opportunities. The
bill also mandates teacher training reading methods, and if
that weren't enough, the legislation also clarifies the State
Board's power to take control of low-performing schools.
Arnold: You got the
whole world in this bill. Why are you putting all these things
in one piece of legislation instead of separate bills?
Lindstrom: Supporters
of the legislation say it's a combination between recommendations
made by the Education Oversight Committee and reaction to
the Leandro decision which orders the state to ensure all
children receive quality education.
Crowley: A program
to help find kidnapped children could get a legislative boost.
The House unanimously passed a joint resolution allowing it
to consider a bill to expand the state's child alert notification
system. Because of the rules regarding the types of bills
that can be introduced during the session, the resolution
is needed to pave the way for discussion. The House did approve
a special provision giving the Justice Department $125,000
to expand the alert system, but some want to strengthen the
program further by making it part of state law.
Lindstrom: It appears
the West Nile Virus has spread in North Carolina. Surveillance
teams have been testing dead birds and mosquitoes throughout
the state and say the virus has now been found in 12 counties,
including two new ones: Wake and Durham. The Public Health
Department says so far, no humans have been affected in the
state and encourages everyone to take basic precautions.
Cline: The message
is that the best thing to do is prevention-to try to keep
our people-keep the breeding places for mosquitoes at a minimum
in your communities, and to wear long sleeves and use insecticide,
repellant-insect repellant-when you're outside.
Lindstrom: You might
also remember earlier this week the Public Health Department
announced a visitor to the state had been treated and released
after reporting symptoms of the West Nile Virus. Public health
officials maintain he did not become infected in North Carolina.
Crowley: Earlier this
session the Senate voted to ban video poker machines from
North Carolina. Now the topic is in the House where lawmakers,
business owners, and sheriff's departments are jumping into
the debate. Bruce Snyder reports.
[THEME MUSIC]
Snyder: Video poker:
harmless pleasure or harmful pastime? Should it be allowed
in North Carolina or forced to fold? That is being debated
by both North Carolina politicians and residents.
Griffin: Well it's
a good pastime. I'm home most of the day and I get a little
bored; I just come out and visit with my friends and play
the different games.
"Susie": All these
retired people where I live-they live at these convenience
stores, and they're not spending $10. They're-I watched a
lady that has cancer and she puts hundreds in this poker machine
every day.
Snyder: Video poker
machines are legal in North Carolina at least for now. They
can be found in every corner of our state from truck stops
to convenience stores, from the beaches in the east to a mountain
casino. With the exception of the Cherokee Indian Reservation,
no location is allowed to have more than three video poker
machines, and no machine is allowed to pay more than $10 of
merchandise-not cash. But not everyone is following the rules.
Hege: It's supposed
to be a game of chance. You know, different things like a
slot machine, except you're punching buttons, just lining
things up-cherries and whatever-then you get a pullout. You
should get eight to ten credits or-you get eight more games.
What happens is, instead of getting a coupon, the guy goes
behind the cash register, gets him out 200 bucks-just like
that.
Snyder: Gerald Hege
is the sheriff of Davidson County. His office looks like a
bunker-a bunker in which to wage a war against video poker
machine owners not following the law.
Hege: The man-hours
you put in and you're losing investigators on this type of
crime when they could be doing breaking entries, robberies,
and different things. If you lose the time that you have to
sit in here with these victims and deal not only with the
victim, but you have to deal with their families as well.
People have to pick up the tab for all of this and go take
out bank loans. You have to watch them cry right here in front
of you. It's a very sad situation to do.
Snyder: Hege says what
owners do is give their winning customers not merchandise,
but cash payouts.
Hege: There's one truck
stop here locally-we just hit it last week. We sent in our
undercover team to a local truck stop and we played the machines.
We observed people playing the machines, we observed people
paying off on the machines. We went in and won 200 bucks.
Snyder: Hege's deputies
recently raided this truck stop. They found that the three
video poker machines had each done $1500 worth of business-that's
$4500. The store is open 365 days of the year. Do the math
and you'll find the three machines brought in an extra $1.5
million of untaxed money. The state estimates video poker
as a $115 million industry.
Hege: It's not the
playing of the machine. It's the people-if that person wants
to play all day, that's fine. But if that person who is paying
him off-that store owner or manager who is paying him off
and enticing him to come back-letting him put up his car title
for a check, which he knows is no good, he loses his car title.
That's the problem.
Snyder: A problem "Susie"
has experienced firsthand. Susie's using a fake name to tell
a real story. She says her parents got addicted to video poker
and in a span of 18 months lost over a half million dollars,
maxing out close to 100 credit cards.
"Susie": Mortgaging
properties to the max and then the new house to the max. And
they were getting these loans. They're retired people. How
are they going to pay this back? It was awful.
Snyder: Fortunately
"Susie" was able to pay off her parents' debts, although the
ordeal has strained the relationship.
Hege: Usually the people
whom it deals with are the elderly people-people who are retired,
people who are in their golden years, everything's paid for,
they're getting ready to go have a good time and enjoy life,
their kids are grown and gone..
Snyder: The State Department
of Revenue says there are over 10,000 video poker machines
in our state. Now according to the law, they're not allowed
to payout in cash and not allowed to pay out more than $10
in merchandise. Some venders chose to break the law; some
choose to play by the rules, like Bernard O's coffee and cappuccino
shop.
Edwards: Adults like
to get away and have a little bit of quiet time too and that's
basically what they do. They sit in here and hit a little
button and play cards when they can't go to that-that family
card game or whatever. They're just enjoying themselves away
from home.
Snyder: Kaytie calls
her store a "mom and pop" operation. Her coffee
shop plays by the rules as she struggles to pay the bills.
The video machines help bring in a little extra money.
Edwards: Enough to
pay the rent and enough to pay the electricity and sometimes
a little bit extra for something fun.
Snyder: But some North
Carolina lawmakers want the industry to cash out their chips.
The Senate recently voted to pass a bill that would outlaw
video poker. Now the House is debating the measure, but with
the gaming industry making campaign contributions to many
politicians and the debate still raging over the North Carolina
lottery, it's difficult to calculate the odds of video poker
staying in the state.
Hain: I don't feel
that this is as much a danger to society as someone who goes
out there that drinks. If somebody's going to hurt by gambling,
all they're hurting is themselves, and yes, they are hurting
their family, but it's a choice they make and it's a choice
the family makes if they stay within that family unit. But
with alcohol, you're hurting not just your family, you're
hurting everyone out there because most people that drink
will drive eventually.
Crowley: House Speaker
Jim Black says they're still considering whether to take up
the bill. He says the House has been tied up with the budget
and an economic stimulus package.
Lindstrom: It's time
now for our Analysis of this week's hot topics. For
that, Tim Crowley joins two members of the Capitol Press Corps.
[THEME MUSIC]
Crowley: Paul O'Connor
with the Capitol Press Association, Julie Donnelly with North
Carolina Public Radio, thanks for joining us.
Donnelly: Thank you.
O'Connor: Thank you.
Crowley: One of the
major issues of the week: the job creation/economic stimulus
package that House Democrats are pushing. Legislative leaders
are on board, the governor is on board. Paul, is this a program
that can work?
O'Connor: Well sure,
they'll find somebody who will take their money and bring
some jobs here. The question is whether this will bring jobs
here that wouldn't have come otherwise. Everything that the
people who are pushing this bill are saying is that the economic
development world keeps changing and this is the kind of new
things that we need to do to bring jobs here. All of their
other economic development ploys have tended to concentrate
the new economic development in the prosperous counties and
not brought it out to the poorer or more remote areas. I don't
see what's different about this one that it will work any
better than the others.
Crowley: Julie, there
are obviously some criticisms of this. What are the critics
saying about this package?
Donnelly: Well, what
I find really interesting is that nobody really likes this-nobody
thinks this is good policy. The sponsor, Representative Bill
Owens, said, "You know, I don't really like incentives
either, but if we don't do this, we're going to lose these
jobs to surrounding states." And I think that's what
really pushed the vote. You know, it was a vote that was not
along party lines, that had Democrats and Republicans voting
for it and the margin was probably wider than, I think, a
lot of people thought it would be because there were a lot
of criticisms and there were a lot of amendments to really
scale back the effect of this bill.
O'Connor: You hear
that all the time, that nobody really likes this. If nobody
really liked this and people were willing to act on this,
we would have legislators and governors from across the country
going to the US Congress and saying, "We need to rewrite
the tax laws, we need to rewrite the interstate commerce laws
to outlaw this kind of stuff." This stuff is nothing
more than a rip-off of the American taxpayer. It is-it is
corporate welfare, yet what we're going to have with this
law, Tim, is that somebody's going to go to work in the morning
and they're going to work all day and they're going to have
their taxes withheld from their paycheck. Instead of those
taxes going towards the support of the schools, it's going
to come right back to the boss man, and I can't believe that
people who work in North Carolina and live in North Carolina-or
who live anywhere in this country-want that kind of a policy,
where the boss man is getting their withholding back. It's
a horrible policy. Of course nobody likes it, but it's got
to be up to the Congress to step in and stop this. That's
not going to happen.
Crowley: Julie, the
other criticism is we just don't know how much this is going
to cost at this point.
Donnelly: Right. The
tax incentives would last for 12 years and it would be limited
to 25 different companies, but nobody knows what the total
effect of this is going to be on the state. It really depends
on how many jobs are created. And another criticism that's
been brought up is that it doesn't keep jobs in the state
that might leave. So you could have a situation where you
have a company who comes to the state and takes advantage
of these incentives, and when they run out, they shop around
to another state and leave.
Crowley: What kind
of signal do you think this sends in a time where there are
budget struggles going on in the House and the Senate, and
there are people without jobs? Does this send a mixed message
to them or not?
O'Connor: It continues
to send the signal that this General Assembly has been sending
for four to six years now, and that is that "we are going
to tax consumers and we're going to give tax breaks on the
business side." We've talked about this when I've been
on this program before-the imbalance that we have been seeing
now for a couple of decades, of the shift in the tax burden
to the consumer and to the individual taxpayer. That's the
signal it's sending-that business can threaten the Legislature
and they'll get-they won't get tax increases and they can
threaten the Legislature and they'll get tax incentives. That's
the signal I see it saying.
Crowley: Let's switch
real briefly to the budget, and briefly because not much has
gone on this week with the budget, has it?
Donnelly: I think people
have said before, and I know Paul has said this, that the
Legislature cannot chew gum and walk at the same time, and
I think this week was a great example of that. This corporate
incentives bill held them hostage all week. They would go
into session and then they wouldn't debate any bills. They'd
recess and go back into committee to discuss this one bill.
Really no substantial progress was made on the budget. They
said that the big chairs had been meeting and working things
out, but we've seen nothing on the floor and we're up to two
months late for the budget.
Crowley: Is this any
different than any other year, Paul?
O'Connor: No. No, this-I'm
starting to sound like an old politician here, but this particular
group of 170 people just can't-it doesn't-just can't get the
work done. They're all locked up. It's exactly as Julie said,
although I think you overstate what they accomplished last
week. I don't they accomplished anything. I don't think they
are working toward a budget. I'm getting ready for Halloween
with the Legislature in session, which no one would notice
the difference, you know, if they're here or not, but they're
going to be here for a long time.
Crowley: Let's talk
about one of the other stories this week: the state covets
their credit rating. It took a hit this week. They dropped
it down to Double-A1, which I guess is a little bit better
than Double-A. What kind of effect, Paul, does this have on
the state?
O'Connor: I think this
really hurts the state. It's millions of dollars a year in
lost interest savings. North Carolina still has a very high
interest rate credit rating, and its interest rates are very
low right now. So we're still going to spend less on interest
than we might have anticipated when we passed those bonds
a couple of years ago, but we could be paying even less than
we're going to pay. That will come up to millions of dollars.
More importantly, I think, it's really kind of a whack at
our pride. This is something that North Carolina has always
prided itself on-or long prided itself on-that it's a fiscally
sound state, stable government. It's not any more-not when
they're pulling passing tax incentive packages that they can't
explain how much it's going to cost, and when they're passing
budgets that are full of one-time money. I mean, this-I think,
and I've written this, that this is just the first downgrade,
in that more-we're on the fast slide.
Crowley: We have just
about a minute left, but the governor took this opportunity
to hammer away at the lottery again.
Donnelly: Right. He
met a few weeks before the letter came from Moody's Investor
Service and talked to them, and they specifically mentioned
in their letter that measures like raising the sales tax and
instituting a lottery might help to restore some confidence
in the North Carolina economy.
O'Connor: A bunch of
Wall Street types wanting us raise the tax on consumers and
it gibberish. The lottery, the governor has said repeatedly,
will go toward new spending. Any money they add, they're going
to spend it on something new. The lottery will do nothing
to get this state's books back in balance.
Crowley: We're going
to leave it right there. Paul O'Connor with the Capitol Press
Association, Julie Donnelly with North Carolina Public Radio,
thanks for joining us.
Donnelly: Thank you.
O'Connor: It's always
fun.
Lindstrom: Tonight
we Profile Representative Julia Howard from Mocksville.
Representative Howard says she has a special way to read to
her grandchildren and wants to leave a good impression on
the state.
[THEME MUSIC]
Howard: I have always
been interested in helping people and been very involved in
civic projects in my home town, in my community, and I love
people. I love helping people. You know, I think that being
in politics or a part of that process, you have an opportunity
to help people, and that's the most important thing that I
do as a legislator-is to help people.
It isn't the large things
that we do in life that's important. Every individual in this
building is important and important to me, as they are in
my district. I would hope they would find me to be a very
friendly, caring, compassionate person that always has time
to listen to problems and try to find a solution if all possible.
But I will certainly spend my time and energy trying to help
folks. That's what I would hope that they would find.
I have six of the most wonderful
grandchildren in the world. Two are eight, two are five and
two have just turned three. They're pretty much my life, though
three of them live in Pennsylvania, the other three in Seattle,
Washington, so you can see they're spread out. I visit and
I talk to them every day on the telephone-all six of them.
When they were really, really young, I used to go to the bookstore
and I would buy three books. I would send one to Seattle,
Washington, I would send one to Pennsylvania, and I kept one.
So I have read Good Night Mr. Moon by Ma Bell for many,
many hours and we used to read on the phone. Now the interesting
thing with those little grandchildren, the older ones can
now read to me. It's so exciting to watch them grow up. The
only connection I can have with them, because of the distance,
is by phone. Of course, my phone bills are more than my house
payment, but that doesn't really matter.
I think the right, particularly
right now, as we are trying to go through the budget process,
I would really wish that at some point in time-it may be in
the Long Session, which begins in January-that we could go
back to a zero base balance-you know, budgeting-provision,
where we can literally sit down and look at every program
that we are funding, where our dollars go. Is it a good program?
Are we getting the best bang for our buck? Is it still necessary?
I find that in government, once a program gets on board, it's
hard to ever get rid of it. You may not need it or you may
find duplication, but with the deficit that we're going to
be seeing next year-to the tune of about $600 million on the
first day-I think we're going to have to do that.
I would hope that when my
grandchildren look back-and the young children that I have
hopefully touched their lives in a positive manner-that they
will say, "She made it easier for us. She cut a path
for us that-She cared about us." I find-to go back to
what we spoke about earlier, every human being that I meet
is important to me. Everybody has a place and a station in
life. I just hope that all young folks can reach their full
potential as they move through life and I just hope that in
the work that I do, publicly and privately, that I have made
an easier path for those young folks to follow.
Lindstrom: Many people
are growing frustrated as the session wears on with no apparent
end in sight.
Crowley: That on top
of a record breaking Long Session last year.
Lindstrom: So in our
Question of the Week we asked, "Do you think the
General Assembly should have session limits?"
Crowley: Of those who
chose to vote online, 88% said, "Yes, there should be
some time limits;" 12% said, "No." And remember
to vote for our new Question of the Week on business
incentives being paid for by taxpayer money. You can vote
for the question by logging onto our website at www.unctv.org,
emailing us at legweek@unctv.org
or calling us at 919-549-7830.
Lindstrom: Something
else without a clear end in sight: our state's drought, and
that has created some clever ideas on how to conserve water.
Crowley: After receiving
word from the governor that state agencies cannot water lawns,
and flowerbeds, ground crews here at the General Assembly
came up with this idea. They're catching the condensation
off of the air conditioning units and then spreading it over
the flowers by hand. By tapping into water that would normally
run down the drain, crews are hoping to keep the plants healthy
despite the drought.
Lindstrom: That's our
show for tonight. Thanks for joining us.
Crowley: We hope you'll
join us next week on Legislative Week in Review. Have a great
weekend.
[THEME MUSIC]
Voiceover: This program
was made possible by contributions to UNC-TV from viewers
like you. Thank you.
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Participants
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Crowley: Tim
Crowley
Lindstrom: Rebecca Lindstrom
Vickery: Shannon Vickery
Snyder: Bruce Snyder
Owens: Representative Bill Owens, [D] Pasquotank
County
Pope: Representative Art Pope, [R] Wake County
Nesbitt: Representative Martin Nesbitt, [D] Buncombe
County
Starnes: Representative Edgar Starnes, [R] Caldwell
County
McMahan: Representative Ed. McMahan, [R] Mecklenburg
County
Sherrill: Representative Wilma Sherrill, [R] Buncombe
County
Goodwin: Representative Wayne Goodwin, [D] Richmond
County
Arnold: Representative Gene Arnold, [R] Nash County
Morgan: Perri Morgan, National Federation of Independent
Business
Kirk: Phil Kirk, NC Citizens for Business & Industry
Saunders: Representative Drew Saunders, [D] Mecklenburg
County
Morgan: Robert Morgan, NC Center for Voter Education
Culpepper: Representative Bill Culpepper, [D] Chowan
County
Blust: Representative John Blust, [R] Guilford County
C. Wilson: Representative Connie Wilson, [R] Mecklenburg
County
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Rader: Judge
Robert Rader, Wake County District Court
Sutton: Representative Ron Sutton, [D] Robeson County
Easley: Governor Mike Easley
Moeser: James Moeser, UNC-CH Chancellor
Ernst: Carl Ernst, UNC-CH Professor, Religious Studies
Justus: Representative Larry Justus, [R] Henderson
County
Lee: Senator Howard Lee, [D] Co-Chair, Appropriations
Committee
Farris: Ray Farris, UNC Board of Governors
B. Wilson: Brad Wilson, Chair, UNC Board of Governors
Friday: William Firday, Former UNC President
Cline: Dr. Steve Cline, NC Division of Public Health
Griffin: Wilma Griffin, Video Poker Player
"Susie:" "Susie," Parents Addicted
to Video Poker
Hege: Gerald Hege, Davidson County Sheriff
Edwards: Kaytie Edwards, Shop Owner
Hain: Jolayne Hain, First Time Video Poker Player
O'Connor: Paul O'Connor, Capitol Press Association
Donnelly: Julie Donnelly, NC Public Radio
Howard: Representative Julia Howard, [R] Davie County
M: Male Voice
F: Female Voice
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